\input zine.sty

\lline{\hl Interview with William S. Burroughs}
\lline{by Deke Motif Nihilson}
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This interview was conducted on Halloween day 1990, thank Gawdess
because it's about the only way I could feel much better about
missing the Larry Lea dumbfucks at Civic Center. Working some
provocative leads, me and my friend David went to Lawrence KS the
previous Saturday and found Mr. Burroughs. I gave him a wad of
queer zines, all the ones I had copies of on hand (Chainsaw,
Sister Nobody, Pavement of Surface, Faggot, JD's, and mais oui
some Homocores). He was into being interviewed for Homocore, so
over the next few days I worked it on out with his personal
secretary James Grauerholtz, a very sweet man who remembered me
from the River City Reunion back in '87.

So anyway, we set this up on th' phone (I in K.C., they in
Larrytown) and my friends there picked up the bill (ahem) for all
those logistical calls, so additional thanx to the
Sorrels/Zastoupil household.

P.S. I also talked to Mr. Grauerholtz for another 20 minutes or
so, but for the purposes of space kept the transcript to me
(Deke) and Uncle Bill (WSB). Mr. Grauerholtz was very lucid and
witty about the state of both queer lib and ``punk''/youth
culture. He was wonderfully facilitating and I thank him special.

P.P.S. Burroughs and Grauerholtz both love Homocore, but probably
not as much as we love them! Enough. The interview\dots

\picture{2.9in}

{\ninepointsanserif WSB WITH E-METER (photo stolen from RE/SEARCH
\#4/5 without permission)}

{\bf Deke:} Both Tom Jennings, the editor of Homocore, and myself
have been really interested in your discussion of Tongs as a
model of group mutual support and protection. However, this model
seems suited to professionals with money. Do you think Tongs
could function without a lot of money and on street-level?

{\bf WSB:} Yes, I think so. Remember [the sort I spoke of] were
modeled on the Chinese Tongs, and many of the Chinese were very
impoverished. The idea was that the people who had more money
would help those that didn't.

{\bf Deke:} Well, at least in the U.S., and as far as I've ever
seen, organizations in the gay community tend to be more of the
upper-class businessmen-type variety. We [Homopunks] are
operating much more of a street-level reality. We're wondering
how Tongs might mesh up better with our own particular needs.

{\bf WSB:} Well, I certainly think you could, if you got support
from like-minded professionals. Also, I think some sort of
commando groups to act against gay-bashers is a very good idea. 
That requires no money, just dedication, like the Guardian
Angels.

{\bf Deke:} There has been some discussion, like in OUTWEEK about
whether or not homosexuals should arm themselves\dots

{\bf WSB:} I think they should. There's various weapons, of
course [long pause] tear gas is always good. It's a good weapon
and it doesn't necessarily leave corpses laying about. Capsdun is
the best teargas.

{\bf Deke:} Capsdun?

{\bf WSB:} Yes, that's C-A-P-S-D-U-N. Many, all of the places
that sell teargas now sell Capsdun. Stop a charging Doberman in
its tracks.

{\bf Deke:} To say nothing of the next bigot running down the
street after you! Do you see gay identity itself as a means of
liberation?

{\bf WSB:} Well, in a sense, yes. I mean, I remember when I was
younger, back in the 1920's, it was all sorta swept under the
carpet. Nobody came out in the open with it. It works both ways,
though. One of the things that causes anti-gay action is the fact
that they dare to squawk about it. A lot of straight people say,
``Oh well, it's fine, we know about it, we just don't wanna have
it shoved at us, that's all.''

{\bf Deke:} In your personal experience, what have you found to
be the most effective tool for fighting homophobia?

{\bf WSB:} Actually, I haven't run up against very much of it,
personally. Well, I always used to carry a weapon in New York
City, usually tear gas or a blackjack, but not because of 
gay-bashers so much as general violence.

{\bf Deke:} Do you think there can be a political solution to
bigotry?

{\bf WSB:} Uh, no. I don't see that. You can't legislate decent
behavior.

{\bf Deke:} Right. So many bigots seem to be legislators.

{\bf WSB:} Well, that's it, that's the trouble of course.

{\bf Deke:} Do you think it can be addressed on its own terms?

{\bf WSB:} Certainly it always falls to the good, the more
liberal legislators that can be placed in office. Gay legislators
too, of course.

{\bf Deke:} As is already happening to a degree\dots

{\bf WSB:} That always helps, it's a step in the right direction.

{\bf Deke:} Do you see AIDS as a governmentally-manufactur\-ed
biological plot?

{\bf WSB:} Well, if I had to bet my money -- I say, if I HAD to bet
my money, I'd say it probably was deliberate. Now Dr. Seale of
London, an AIDS specialist, he attributed it to the Russians. 
Well I don't see that they have anything to gain by eliminating
homosexuals and intravenous drug users. And also, it's a very
simple job of biological engineering, genetic tinkering, with the
visnu virus, which is found in sheep and is always fatal. There
is something called the Committee Against War and Fascism, that
came right out and said that AIDS is biological warfare by the
U.S. Government against people, against gays and blacks.

{\bf Deke:} Do you think the populations hardest hit by AIDS were
specifically targeted?

{\bf WSB:} Well, it seems so. If you think of the seed of it as
being man-made, deliberately induced, then it is certainly very
specifically targeted. It could've been introduced through the
needle business. The addict population forms a ready-made conduit
for the introduction of any biological or chemical weapon. It
could've been introduced through the needles. You can't put
viruses in something like heroin because they live for a very
short time outside the body, but they can put it in the needles.
Most people buy their needles where they buy their heroin.

Rather odd that it should appear first in intravenous drug
abusers who are notably sexually {\it in}active. With an STD,
you'd hardly expect it to start with a segment of the population
that has very inactive sex lives.

{\bf Deke:} Are you still writing at all?

{\bf WSB:} Oh yes, yes. I have a book coming out, I think in the
spring. It's an abridged version of a book called GHOST OF CHANCE
which is about Madagascar and lemurs.

{\bf Deke:} Oh, was that -- there was a story in OMNI\dots

{\bf WSB:} Yes, that's it. That was an excerpt. When the straight
edition will come out, I'm not sure. This one's being put out by
the Whitney Museum. George Condo, a young artist, does the
illustration to my text. It's a condensed text of the novel. But
I hope that the trade edition will be out next fall.

{\bf Deke:} One thing I've always particularly enjoyed about your
books is what might be referred to as the ``pornographic''
contents, the non-time-local sexual scenes. Do you ever foresee
yourself writing any more of that?

{\bf WSB:} Perhaps I would [pause] there's very little sex in
this book I've just finished, The Ghost of Chance. As you get
older, you begin to ask yourself how much sex has to do with sex.

{\bf Deke:} What do you mean?

{\bf WSB:} Well, it's a complicated question. The actual buttons
that cause arousal in many cases are non-sexual. [Long pause.]

{\bf Deke:} I wanna end by asking if there's anything you'd
particularly care to say to all the queer kids out there?

{\bf WSB:} I'm very militantly inclined and I certainly feel that
they should defend themselves.

{\bf Deke:} Do you think preemptive attacks would every be
justified?

{\bf WSB:} Oh yes, certainly; offense is the best defense in all
military actions. Don't wait for them to attack if they're going
to attack.

WSB Communications / POB 147 / Lawrence, KS 66044


\picture{3.6in}

{\ninepointsanserif WILLIAM ON MARS (photocollage by J.P.A,
stolen from RE/SEA\-RCH \#4/5 without permission)}

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