From EHL@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu Wed Dec 8 17:06:38 1993 Received: from tiamat.umd.umich.edu by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA01314; Wed, 8 Dec 93 17:06:19 -0800 Received: from cw-f1.umd.umich.edu by tiamat.umd.umich.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21941; Wed, 8 Dec 93 20:05:52 EST Received: from CW-F1/MAIL_INN by cw-f1.umd.umich.edu (Mercury 1.1); Wed, 8 Dec 93 20:07:40 EDT From: "KARGUL GEORGE J. (PH 02/19/1992 22:57:38) " Organization: University of Michigan-Dearborn To: dina@wps.com (Dina Palivos) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 20:07:31 EST5EDT Subject: Re: this is a test Priority: normal X-Mailer: PMail v3.0 (R1) Message-Id: <2A247F9494D@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu> Status: OR Dreary life???? Gimme a break! If your life is dreary then what is mine? DON'T answer that! Fuck! Wow! I really didn't expect this to work. Now I can talk to you whenever I get the urge...only this isn't the comfort of my home. I had a test...hold on Dan wants to say something( you know the Rennaissance Dan)...How can life possibly be dreary when we can stand awed at the limitless possibilities of the Twentieth Century(although speaking with George any time the urge arises would be pretty depressing...)? Hopefully Frisco will treat you a bit better than grand old Detroit-back to George...well I'm sure that was nothing less than a pleasant surprise for you. Your pregnant!?!...but,but...that's impossible...oh your kidding. I get it, humor. If I'm acting strange around Karen and Tina, it's because I don't really like Karen. She just really irritates me...it's sort of irrational though. But I assure you it's not because they slept together...Anyway i've probably been acting strange to everyone lately. You know, my mood has been for shit, and it doesn't help it being the end of the semester and having to hear all these bullshit student self-martyring stories. Everybody says the same shit over and over and over, and it's all so fucking dull. So when I see Karen and the first thing out of her mouth is (Now remember to read with an accent) "I've got so much to du...I've got a 1000 pg. paper and...all dies research, O my god George, I done no what to du," well, I basically just ignore her. What else is there to do? It's all so cliche ( if in fact that word can be used discriptively like that). In fact, I just saw her about 2 hrs. ago when I was leaving but I decided to stay at the last minute...of course, she wanted a ride home. She came back only a few minutes ago, and I told her I was staying til 12:00...she got all like..sad. I mean, fuck! Then Carrie started talking to her, and I walked away. When I came back, Carrie was going to take her home (hahahahahahaha!!!!). Isn't she a gem? E-mail is great for venting, sorry. Well, I'm going to program now. I'll be here til 12:00 if they'll let me so if you want respond. love you, George From EHL@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu Thu Dec 9 09:56:59 1993 Received: from tiamat.umd.umich.edu by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA05328; Thu, 9 Dec 93 09:56:54 -0800 Received: from cw-f1.umd.umich.edu by tiamat.umd.umich.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25742; Thu, 9 Dec 93 12:56:27 EST Received: from CW-F1/MAIL_INN by cw-f1.umd.umich.edu (Mercury 1.1); Thu, 9 Dec 93 12:58:33 EDT From: "KARGUL GEORGE J. (PH 02/19/1992 22:57:38) " Organization: University of Michigan-Dearborn To: dina@wps.com Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 12:58:22 EST5EDT Subject: paranoyia...absolutely! Priority: normal X-Mailer: PMail v3.0 (R1) Message-Id: <2B3219E22B6@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu> Status: OR Did I spell paranoyia incorrectly?? Probably not. Wierd thing happened today. I was driving out of my parkinglot and this women was pulling in. She looked at me, smiled and waived. So I waived back...I must know her from somewhere, but I can't place her. She was kindof attractive... so I drove around the block. Her car was parked, but there was no sign of her....FUCK!!! Wordsmith? Hardly. Remember, I'm a Math geake. Mastery of the English language is out of my realm. I just don't want you to have any far reaching expectations of me. I guess that part of my personality is evident in every aspect of my life. Man am I a mess, huh? I just saw Tina. She's freaking out...school and all. I told her she can E-mail you. I think that made her happy. You're going to be the new UM-D trend. How wonderful for you. I bet you thought you were rid of this place...well I tell ya somethin' sweetheart, forget it! You never get away from this place. Now you can talk to "all your friends at UM-D, and George too!" Sorry, I had to. Tina seems to be in good spirits though. I feel bad for her. She's going to have to finish a paper of break. That sucks! We all know that it'll probably consume her and ruin any kind of break she might have had. Well, I'm going to be here all day again. So if you want to e- me...e-me HARD. Tell my wife I said Hi. Too much love, George From EHL@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu Fri Dec 10 07:58:40 1993 Received: from tiamat.umd.umich.edu by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA11317; Fri, 10 Dec 93 07:58:33 -0800 Received: from cw-f1.umd.umich.edu by tiamat.umd.umich.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29817; Fri, 10 Dec 93 10:58:05 EST Received: from CW-F1/MAIL_INN by cw-f1.umd.umich.edu (Mercury 1.1); Fri, 10 Dec 93 11:00:37 EDT From: "KARGUL GEORGE J. (PH 02/19/1992 22:57:38) " Organization: University of Michigan-Dearborn To: dina@wps.com Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 11:00:26 EST5EDT Subject: male scum Priority: normal X-Mailer: PMail v3.0 (R1) Message-Id: <2C92B2A165F@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu> Status: OR I'm sorry. You seem to be so miserable right now. I wish I could be redeeming. But right now I'm very pressed for time. Don't get so hung up on Allison. If she calls, which she probably will, great! If not, then she's the cat that's not quite so hip. Your the hippest cat on the block, and if she can't figure that out, well...just another casualty of war. Keep in mind your misery is mine and things always get better (not on the grand scale of things, of course. Just in localized units of time in which the magnitude is both time and individual dependent.)...That was supposed to be humorous....just another failing...oh well. Listen, your period will be over soon, and you can do your daily routine (if such a thing exists) comfortably in your ever so beautiful and youthful body. I mean it! Anyways, if God is all powerful, and all knowing, then he's a dick. I'll try to write later, but I don't think I'll have the time...it's the last day of school and I have last minute, late assignments to turn in. I'll call you tonight after work, about 1:00 (here). Once again, too much love, George From tomj Fri Jan 21 12:27:29 1994 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA06723; Fri, 21 Jan 94 12:27:26 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <9401212027.AA06723@wps.com> Subject: Meat (fwd) To: shit-list Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 12:27:25 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 5311 Status: OR Forwarded message: From gnu@toad.com Fri Jan 21 01:49:01 1994 Message-Id: <9401210948.AA05341@toad.com> To: tomj@wps.com, hugh@toad.com, laura@toad.com Subject: Meat Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 01:48:52 -0800 From: gnu@toad.com [forwards deleted] > A dialogue by Terry Bisson. From a series of stories entitled > "Alien/Nation" in the April issue of Omni. "They're made out of meat." "Meat?" "Meat. They're made out of meat." "Meat?" "There's no doubt about it. We picked several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, probed them all the through. They're completely meat." "That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars." "They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines." "So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact." "They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines." "That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat." "I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in the sector and they're made out of meat." "Maybe they're like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage." "Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spams, which didn't take too long. Do you have any idea the life spam of meat?" "Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plamsa brain inside." "Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through." "No brain?" "Oh, there is a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat!" "So... what does the thinking?" "You're not understanding, are you? The brain does the thinking. The meat." "Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!" "Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you getting the picture?" "Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat." "Finally. Yes, they are indeed made out meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years." "So what does the meat have in mind." "First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the universe, contact other sentients, swap ideas and information. The usual." "We're supposed to talk to meat?" "That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there? Anyone home?' That sort of thing." "They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?" "Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat." "I thought you just told me they used radio." "They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat." "Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?" "Officially or unofficially?" "Both." "Officially, we are required to contact, welcome, and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in the quadrant, without prejudice, fear, or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the reconds and forget the whole thing." "I was hoping you would say that." "It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?" "I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say?" `Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?" "Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they only travel through C-space. which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact." "So we just pretend there's no one home in the universe." "That's it." "Cruel. But you sid it yourself, who want to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you have probed? You're sure they won't remember?" "They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them." "A dream to meat! How strangely appropiate, that we should be meat's dream." "And we can marked this sector unoccupied." "Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interested on that side of the galaxy?" "Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotation ago, wants to be friendly again." "They always come around." "And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the universe would be if one were all alone." ---- John Markoff MCI: jmarkoff New York Times Internet: markoff@nyt.com Embarcadero Center One Well: johnm@well.sf.ca.us San Francisco, CA 94111 ----------------------------- phone: 415 362 3912 all the news etc. ----------------------------- -- Tom Jennings -- tomj@wps.com -- World Power Systems -- San Francisco, Calif. From jshepher@rvcc.raritanval.edu Sat Feb 12 12:46:00 1994 Received: from rvcc.raritanval.edu by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA00162; Sat, 12 Feb 94 12:45:46 -0800 Message-Id: <9402122045.AA00162@wps.com> Subject: Re: At last...we meet... To: dina@wps.com (Dina Palivos) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 1994 15:46:57 -0500 (EST) From: John Shepherd In-Reply-To: <9402080631.AA16217@wps.com> from "Dina Palivos" at Feb 7, 94 10:31:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 798 Status: OR Hi. Sorry I haven't responded to your mail sooner. I haven't been....alone. I was hoping to get to spend some time sending you a note without having to worry about whether anyone might come around and see it. I have about a minute like that right now. So.... I haven't done a thing about getting that picture to you. That's OK, though. It won't be any big deal when you finally get it. And i really think it's cool that you just have to imagine what i look like ;) I don't know that I agree about e-mail being better than the phone: I like talking with you. I guess it's the opposite reason. I like the phone better because it is "closer" than this is. You like this because it's more detached. Hmmmm. Oh well. I hafta run... I won't wait so long to write back next time. John From jshepher@rvcc.raritanval.edu Sat Feb 19 08:33:12 1994 Received: from rvcc.raritanval.edu by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA03683; Sat, 19 Feb 94 08:32:59 -0800 Message-Id: <9402191632.AA03683@wps.com> Subject: . To: dina@wps.com Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 11:33:57 -0500 (EST) From: John Shepherd X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 357 Status: OR Hi Dina, How ya doing? It is a *gorgeous* day here!! It has been so crummy for so long I forgot what "nice outside" is all about. It's about 11:30 Sat. morning here. I'm on a break from class. So...a few hours earlier where you are. I'm wondering what you're doing, thinking, maybe dreaming. I've missed being in touch with you. I hafta go... John From EHL@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu Fri Mar 11 09:51:58 1994 Received: from tiamat.umd.umich.edu by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA11858; Fri, 11 Mar 94 09:51:53 -0800 Received: from cw-f1.umd.umich.edu by tiamat.umd.umich.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00325; Fri, 11 Mar 94 12:51:04 EST Received: from CW-F1/MAIL_INN by cw-f1.umd.umich.edu (Mercury 1.1); Fri, 11 Mar 94 12:52:48 EDT From: "KARGUL GEORGE J. (PH 02/19/1992 22:57:38) " Organization: University of Michigan-Dearborn To: dina@wps.com Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 12:52:27 EST5EDT Subject: hi Priority: normal X-Mailer: PMail v3.0 (R1) Message-Id: <211ECEB6DE7@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu> Status: OR hey sweetie, this is kinda out of the ordinary, isn't it. I'm blowing off some time, for i'm waiting for class. I'm very very tired right now. I stayed up all night to finish a midterm...wouldn't be so bad, but the two problems I worked on all night are wrong...FUCK!!! Well, i'm done playing that age old self-martyring student game...it's just that i can barely stay conscious right now. I need your wit, charm and good-looks right now. I wish you weren't so far away. What to do? Much ado... that's it. I know, i know i've been in the movie business too long. Speaking of that, Derek wants me to start a film producing company with him...tell me what you think. It's not serious, but still tell me what you think...it'll be pfun. well now my sweetest pea in the space-time continuum, I'm gonna crash on the keyboard.;kjfsla d'pvkl;jctpiopkm lu v y a ! From jshepher@rvcc.raritanval.edu Sat Mar 12 08:00:40 1994 Received: from rvcc.raritanval.edu by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA15438; Sat, 12 Mar 94 08:00:25 -0800 Message-Id: <9403121600.AA15438@wps.com> Subject: Re: A Great loss... To: dina@wps.com (Dina Palivos) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 11:01:21 -0500 (EST) From: John Shepherd In-Reply-To: <9402230654.AA16589@wps.com> from "Dina Palivos" at Feb 22, 94 10:54:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 3646 Status: OR > hey fox, fox??? You make me blush... I feel bad for not writing back to you sooner. ...I guess I'm not very good at this e-mailing thing. I like to have a time when I don't need to rush through writitng to you, but I hardly ever have a time like that. Know what I mean? > i got your phone message. it was 6am, which is fine, but i had guests and > was slighly hung over/passed out from the night before. I didn't really > pass out. I don't do that, mostly because , despite my endless efforts to > change, I'm still a very nice girl from the midwest. I knew it was early your time, but I figured if it was a problem, you'd let me know. Hmmmmm, sounds to me like you were probably passed out. I'm particularly sad > rigth now. Both film god Derek Jarman and Randy Shilts dies this week > from the scourge of the plague. I worshipped Derek Jarman, most possibly > one of my favorite filmmakers. And Randy Shilts has done for gay/aids I've never heard of either of them. I'll look for Derek Jarmen films. Edward II? I guess that's a film title? I *will* look for it. I'm taking a film class this semester. I'm not good at it. The professor is really into having us talk and write about how the films affect us emotionally. I'm totally out of my element there and am very uncomfortable with it. I'll get through, though. Also, it is changing forever the way I look at movies. No more pure escapism :( On the other topic: I have such little concept of "gay". I mean, I've known a few people who are gay, been approached by a few men over the years, but mostly I don't get it. Actually, where I said "people" in that last sentence, I should've said "guys". Except for you, I haven't known any women who have talked with me about being gay. I do know some women who I think are gay, but we don't talk about it. How do you feel about straight people who don't have a clue about what your all about? That'd be me... > bring you down but this really effects my reality. Did I just say > "effects my reality"??? EEEECK! I've obviously been in California too > long. hehehe. That's just what I thought when I read that! Anyway, the other day i was thinking, "Why does this John fella > keep in touch with me?" hmmm.. my voice? no, then we wouldn't e-mail each > other. my dazzling personality and quirky world perspective? perhaps... > maybe you could shed some light on the subject... Your voice is high on the list. Definitely the phone sex part thrills the hell out of me. So, don't let the e-mailing part negate that. Your personality and "world perspective" are certainly part of it, too. I don't know anyone like you in my "real life" and something tells me that staying in touch with you is going to be a growing experience for me. I keep in touch with > you because you always sound so tetative and sweet but your really kind > of sleazy and dark like me. I like that. Man, you've got me pegged!! My sleazy and dark side is SO overwhelming! And I give it so little chance to "get out". I let it out with you... I also like you because you're > totally in love with your wife and enjoy sex with her. That just makes > our communication so much more genuine. Why does that make our communiques more genuine?? I mean, you're right that I love her and love sex with her, but I guess I missed something. oh well. i need to go and feel > sad I DO hope you're feeling better by now. Loss really sucks... > e-me hard baby! I so want to, but somehow can't bring myself to do it. ...Maybe you could start... 'til next (like a minute when I answer your other message), John From jshepher@rvcc.raritanval.edu Sat Mar 12 08:03:45 1994 Received: from rvcc.raritanval.edu by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA15456; Sat, 12 Mar 94 08:03:41 -0800 Message-Id: <9403121603.AA15456@wps.com> Subject: Re: more mail To: dina@wps.com (Dina Palivos) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 11:04:44 -0500 (EST) From: John Shepherd In-Reply-To: <9403060311.AA06476@wps.com> from "Dina Palivos" at Mar 5, 94 07:11:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 885 Status: OR > Got your phone message today. I haven't been home much lately, I've > been keeping busy to avoid dealing with my broken heart. I thought it I'm sorry that's still a problem. I really hope you feel better soon. > might be a good idea to give you my work # to insure greater success in > reaching me. It's (415)431-2672. It's an office line, not a customer > line, so you can just ask for me by name. Thanks. I'll try calling you later today... I hope all is going well for > you with school, your family, etc. If I'm not home, I'm usually > at work, I'm painting a mural in the bathroom there. Hope to hear from > you soon. All is OK. Not great. I'm out of time. Have to go back to class... I bet the mural will be great. kinda dark?? > thinking of you fondly, > D And me, of you! John From IGW@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu Mon Mar 14 17:43:42 1994 Received: from tiamat.umd.umich.edu by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA00981; Mon, 14 Mar 94 17:43:29 -0800 Received: from cw-f1.umd.umich.edu by tiamat.umd.umich.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14104; Mon, 14 Mar 94 20:42:36 EST Received: from CW-F1/MAIL_INN by cw-f1.umd.umich.edu (Mercury 1.1); Mon, 14 Mar 94 20:45:53 EDT To: dina@wps.com From: IGW@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu Organization: University of Michigan-Dearborn Date: 14 Mar 1994 20:45:07 EST5EDT Subject: Re: hi Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.02 Message-Id: <261D0A84BED@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu> Status: OR hey you little lady! what's up? i miss you! are you feeling any better? what's going on with you..you seemed really down when i talked to you last..i know i have to wait to talk on the phone about it, but i thought i'd ask..i was a little concerned..i'm ok here..just struggling through this culture and religion exam..ugh theory..i want to write more of my fun papers..but i've put this off for too long so i'd better just get it over with..i talked to deborah( my beauteous bartender) she wants to get together-i'm still not sure in what way because we were at work and i haven't been really forward. she was though, in a way. i told her i'd like to see her so we can talk and she asked if i had her number, i said hold on let me get a pen, before i could get one, she handed me a her number and was waiting for mine..my son's at school all day if you want to come over she said-oh my--i can't wait to get this stuff done so i can be with her...what fun sex we'll have-and we're both new at it too-that'll be sweet i think..well, time is running out..i'm stressed-ok, nearing panic actually but trying to stay in control- so i'd better go...i'd love to hear from you either on the phone or the screen whatever-i just want to know how you are. take care..love tina From jshepher@rvcc.raritanval.edu Mon Mar 14 19:00:12 1994 Received: from rvcc.raritanval.edu by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA01301; Mon, 14 Mar 94 18:59:52 -0800 Message-Id: <9403150259.AA01301@wps.com> Subject: Errgh... To: dina@wps.com Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 22:01:16 -0500 (EST) From: John Shepherd X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 252 Status: OR I deleted the message with your work number before I wrote it down. What a dummy.... I almost called you at home yesterday morning: around 5am your time. I decided you might not love me for that, so i skipped it :< Hope to hear from you soon, John From tomj Mon Mar 14 22:36:09 1994 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA02118; Mon, 14 Mar 94 22:36:05 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <9403150636.AA02118@wps.com> Subject: you're not paranoid enough -- yet To: shit-list Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 22:36:05 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 22624 Status: OR Read this first article. >>TRUNCATED<< -- skip to the text "File 1" Computer underground Digest Sun Mar 13, 1994 Volume 6 : Issue 24 ISSN 1004-042X Editors: Jim Thomas and Gordon Meyer (TK0JUT2@NIU.BITNET) Archivist: Brendan Kehoe (He's Baaaack) Acting Archivist: Stanton McCandlish Shadow-Archivists: Dan Carosone / Paul Southworth Ralph Sims / Jyrki Kuoppala Ian Dickinson Copita Editor: Sheri O'Nothera CONTENTS, #6.24 (Mar 13, 1994) File 1--Clipping the Wings of Freedom (Reprint, by J.P. Barlow) File 2--Leahy to hold hearings on Clipper Chip! File 3--Survey: communication ethics on the net File 4--Starring Tom Cruise as Kevin Poulsen? Cu-Digest is a weekly electronic journal/newsletter. Subscriptions are available at no cost electronically. CuD is available as a Usenet newsgroup: comp.society.cu-digest Or, to subscribe, send a one-line message: SUB CUDIGEST your name Send it to LISTSERV@UIUCVMD.BITNET or LISTSERV@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU The editors may be contacted by voice (815-753-0303), fax (815-753-6302) or U.S. mail at: Jim Thomas, Department of Sociology, NIU, DeKalb, IL 60115, USA. 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EUROPE: from the ComNet in LUXEMBOURG BBS (++352) 466893; In ITALY: Bits against the Empire BBS: +39-461-980493 FTP: UNITED STATES: etext.archive.umich.edu (141.211.164.18) in /pub/CuD/ aql.gatech.edu (128.61.10.53) in /pub/eff/cud/ EUROPE: nic.funet.fi in pub/doc/cud/ (Finland) nic.funet.fi ftp.warwick.ac.uk in pub/cud/ (United Kingdom) COMPUTER UNDERGROUND DIGEST is an open forum dedicated to sharing information among computerists and to the presentation and debate of diverse views. CuD material may be reprinted for non-profit as long as the source is cited. Authors hold a presumptive copyright, and they should be contacted for reprint permission. It is assumed that non-personal mail to the moderators may be reprinted unless otherwise specified. Readers are encouraged to submit reasoned articles relating to computer culture and communication. Articles are preferred to short responses. Please avoid quoting previous posts unless absolutely necessary. DISCLAIMER: The views represented herein do not necessarily represent the views of the moderators. Digest contributors assume all responsibility for ensuring that articles submitted do not violate copyright protections. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 11:30:17 -0500 From: John Perry Barlow Subject: File 1--Clipping the Wings of Freedom (Reprint, by J.P. Barlow) Clipping the Wings of Freedom page 1 Jackboots on the Infobahn by John Perry Barlow [Note: I wish to reserve to Wired Magazine first paper publication of the following piece. However, given the fairly immediate nature of this issue, I am net-casting it now. Feel free to pass it on electronically as you see fit, but please do not turn it into any sort of hard copy until Wired has done so. I also encourage you to buy the April issue of Wired in which it will appear.] On January 11, I managed to schmooze myself aboard Air Force 2. It was flying out of LA, where its principal passenger had just outlined his vision of the Information Superhighway to a suited mob of television, show biz, and cable types who fervently hoped to own it one day...if they could ever figure out what the hell it was. >From the standpoint of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the speech had been wildly encouraging. The Vice President's announced program incorporated many of the concepts of open competition, universal access, and deregulated common carriage which we'd been pushing for the previous year. But he had said nothing about future of privacy, except to cite among the bounties of the NII its ability to "help law enforcement agencies thwart criminals and terrorists who might use advanced telecommunications to commit crimes." On the plane I asked him what this had meant regarding Administration policy on cryptography. He became non-committal as a cigar store indian. "We'll be making some announcements... I can't tell you anything more." He hurried back to the front of the plane, leaving me to troubled speculation. Despite its fundamental role in assuring privacy, transaction security, and reliable identity within the NII, the Clinton/Gore Administration policies regarding cryptography have not demonstrated an enlightenment to match the rest of their digital visions. The Clipper Chip...which bodes to be either the goofiest waste of federal dollars since Gerald Ford's great Swine Flu program or, if actually deployed, a surveillance technology of profound malignancy...seemed at first an ugly legacy of Reagan/Bush. "This is going to be our Bay of Pigs," one White House official told me at the time Clipper was introduced, referring to the distastrous Cuban invasion plan Kennedy inherited from Eisenhower. (Clipper, in case you're just tuning in, is an encryption chip which the NSA and FBI hope will someday be in every phone and computer in America. It scrambles your communications, making them unintelligible to all but their intended recipient. All, that is, but the government, which would hold the "key" to your chip. The key would separated into two pieces, held in escrow, and joined with the appropriate "legal authority.") Of course, trusting the government with your privacy is trusting a peeping tom to install your window blinds. And, since the folks I've met in this White House seem extremely smart, conscious, and freedom-loving...hell, a lot of them are Deadheads...I was sure that after they felt fully moved in, they'd face down the NSA and FBI, let Clipper die a natural death, and lower the export embargo on reliable encryption products. Furthermore, NIST and the National Security Council have been studying both Clipper and export embargoes since April. Given that the volumes of expert testimony they collected opposed them both almost unanimously , I expected the final report to give the Administration all the support it needed to do the right thing. I was wrong about this. Instead, there would be no report. Apparently, they couldn't draft one which supported, on the evidence, what they had decided to do instead. THE OTHER SHOE DROPS On Friday, February 4, the other jack-boot dropped. A series of announcements from the Administration made it clear that cryptography would become their very own "Bosnia of telecommunications" (as one staffer put it). It wasn't just that the old Serbs in the NSA and the FBI were still making the calls. The alarming new reality was that the invertebrates in the White House were only too happy to abide by them. Anything to avoid appearing soft on drugs or terrorism. So, rather than ditching Clipper, they declared it a Federal Data Processing Standard, backing that up with an immediate government order for 50,000 Clipper devices. They appointed NIST and the Department of Treasury as the "trusted" third parties that would hold the Clipper key pairs. (Treasury, by the way, is also home to such trustworthy agencies as the Secret Service and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.) They re-affirmed the export embargo on robust encryption products, admitting for the first time that its purpose was to stifle competition to Clipper. And they outlined a very porous set of requirements under which the cops might get the keys to your chip. (They would not go into the procedure by which the NSA would get them, though they assured us it was sufficient.) They even signaled the impending return of the dread Digital Telephony, an FBI legislative initiative which would require fundamentally re-engineering the information infrastructure to make provision of wiretapping ability the paramount design priority. INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS Actually, by the time the announcements thudded down, I wan't surprised by them. I had spent several days the previous week in and around the White House. I felt like I was in another re-make of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers. My friends in the Administration had been transformed. They'd been subsumed by the vast mind-field on the other side of the security clearance membrane, where dwell the monstrous bureaucratic organisms which feed themselves on fear. They'd adopted the institutionally paranoid National Security Weltanschauung. They used all the tell-tale phrases. Mike Nelson, the White House point man on NII, told me, "If only I could tell you what I know, you'd feel the same way I do." I told him I'd been inoculated against that argument during Vietnam. (And it does seem to me that if you're going to initiate a process which might end freedom in America, you probably need an argument that isn't classified.) Besides, how does he know what he knows? Where does he get his information? Why the NSA, of course. Which, given its strong interest in the outcome, seems hardly an unimpeachable source. However they reached it, Clinton and Gore have an astonishingly simple bottom line, against which even the future of American liberty and prosperity is secondary: They believe that it is their responsibility to eliminate, by whatever means, the possibility that some terrorist might get a nuke and use it on, say, the World Trade Center. They have been convinced that such plots are more likely to ripen to their hideous fruition behind a shield of encryption. The staffers I talked to were unmoved by the argument that anyone smart enough to steal and detonate a nuclear device is probably smart enough to use PGP or some other uncompromised crypto standard. And never mind that the last people who popped a hooter in the World Trade Center were able to put it there without using any cryptography and while under FBI surveillance. We are dealing with religion here. Though only 10 American lives were lost to terrorism in the last two years, the primacy of this threat has become as much an article of faith with these guys as the Catholic conviction that human life begins at conception or the Mormon belief that the Lost Tribe of Israel crossed the Atlantic in submarines. In the spirit of openness and compromise, they invited EFF to submit other solutions to the "problem" of the nuclear-enabled terrorist besides key escrow devices, but they would not admit into discussion the argument that such a threat might, in fact, be some kind of phantasm created by the spooks to ensure their lavish budgets into the Post-Cold War era. As to the possibility that good old-fashioned investigative techniques might be more valuable in preventing their show-case catastrophe (as it was after the fact in finding the alleged perpetrators of the last attack on the World Trade Center),they just hunkered down and said that when wire-taps were necessary, they were damned well necessary. When I asked about the business that American companies lose to their inability to export good encryption products, one staffer essentially dismissed the market, saying that total world trade in crypto goods was still less than a billion dollars. (Well, right. Thanks more to the diligent efforts of the NSA than lack of sales potential.) I suggested that a more immediate and costly real-world effect of their policies would be reducing national security by isolating American commerce, owing to a lack of international confidence in the security of our data lines. I said that Bruce Sterling's fictional data-enclaves in places like the Turks and Caicos Islands were starting to look real world inevitable. They had a couple of answers to this, one unsatisfying and the other scary. Their first answer was that the international banking community could just go on using DES, which still seemed robust enough to them. [DES is the old federal Data Encryption Standard, thought by most cryptologists to be nearing the end of its credibility.] More troubling was their willingness to counter the data-enclave future with one in which no data channels anywhere would be secure from examination by some government or another. They pointed to unnamed other countries which were developing their own mandatory standards and restrictions regarding cryptography and have said to me on several occasions words to the effect that, "Hey, it's not like you can't outlaw the stuff. Look at France." Of course, they have also said repeatedly...and for now I believe them...that they have absolutely no plans to outlaw non-Clipper crypto in the U.S. But that doesn't mean that such plans couldn't develop in the presence of some pending "emergency." Then there is that White House briefing document, issued at the time Clipper was first announced, which asserts that no U.S. citizen "as a matter of right, is entitled to an unbreakable commercial encryption product." Now why, if it's an ability they have no intention of contesting, do they feel compelled to declare that it's not a right? Could it be that they are preparing us for the laws they'll pass after some bearded fanatic has gotten himself a surplus nuke and used something besides Clipper to conceal his plans for it? If they are thinking about such an eventuality, we should be doing so as well. How will we respond? I believe there is a strong, though currently untested, argument that outlawing unregulated crypto would violate the First Amendment, which surely protects the manner of our speech as clearly as it protects the content. But of course the First Amendment is, like the rest of the Constitution, only as good as the government's willingness of the to uphold it. And they are, as I say, in a mood to protect our safety over our liberty. This is not a mind-frame against which any argument is going to be very effective. And it appeared that they had already heard and rejected every argument I could possibly offer. In fact, when I drew what I thought was an original comparison between their stand against naturally proliferating crypto and the folly of King Canute (who placed his throne on the beach and commanded the tide to leave him dry), my opposition looked pained and said he had heard that one almost as often as jokes about road-kill on the Information Superhighway. I hate to go to war with them. War is always nastier among friends. Furthermore, unless they've decided to let the NSA design the rest of the National Information Infrastructure as well, we need to go on working closely with them on the whole range of issues like access, competition, workplace privacy, common carriage, intellectual property, and such. Besides, the proliferation of strong crypto will probably happen eventually no matter what they do. But then again, it might not. In which case we could shortly find ourselves under a government that would have the automated ability to log the time, origin and recipient of everycall we made, could track our physical whereabouts continuously, could keep better account of our financial transactions than we do, and all without a warrant. Talk about crime prevention! Worse, under some vaguely defined and surely mutable "legal authority," they also would be able to listen to our calls and read our e-mail without having to do any backyard rewiring. (And wouldn't even need that to monitor our overseas calls.) If there's going to be a fight, I'd far rather it be with this government than the one we'd likely face on that hard day. Hey, I've never been a paranoid before. It's always seemed to me that most governments are too incompetent to keep a good plot strung together all the way from coffee break to quitting time. But I am now very nervous about the government of the United States of America. Because Bill 'n' Al, whatever their other new paradigm virtues, have allowed the very old paradigm trogs of the Guardian Class to the define as their highest duty the defense of America against an enemy that exists primarily in the imagination and is therefore capable of anything. To assure absolute safety against such an enemy, there is no limit to the liberties we will eventually be asked to sacrifice. And, with a Clipper chip in every phone, there will certainly be no technical limit on their ability to enforce those sacrifices. WHAT YOU CAN DO GET CONGRESS TO LIFT THE CRYPTO EMBARGO The Administration is trying to impose Clipper on us by manipulating market forces. Purchasing massive numbers of Clipper devices, they intend to produce an economy of scale which will make them cheap while their export embargo renders all competition either expensive or non-existent. We have to use the market to fight back. While it's unlikely that they'll back down on Clipper deployment, the Electronic Frontier Foundation believes that with sufficient public involvement, we can get Congress to eliminate the export embargo. Rep. Maria Cantwell (D-WA) has a bill (H.R. 3627) before the Economic Policy, Trade, and Environment Science Subcommittee of the House Foreign Affairs Committee which would do exactly that. She will need a lot of help from the public. They may not care much about your privacy in DC, but they still care about your vote. Please signal your support of H.R. 3627, either by writing her directly or e-mailing her at cantwell@eff.org. Messages sent to that address will be printed out and delivered to her office. In the Subject header of your message, please include the words "support HR 3627." In the body of your message, express your reasons for supporting the bill. You may also express your sentiments to Rep. Lee Hamilton, the Foreign Relations Committee chairman, by e-mailing hamilton@eff.org. Furthermore, since there is nothing quite as powerful as a letter from a constituent, you should check the following list of subcommittee and committee members to see if your congressperson is among them. If so, please copy them your letter to Ms. Cantwell. Economic Policy, Trade, and Environment Science Subcommittee: Democrats: Sam Gejdenson (Chairman), James Oberstar, Cynthia McKinney, Maria Cantwell, Eric Fingerhut, Albert R. Wynn, Harry Johnston, Eliot Engel, Charles Schumer. Republicans: Toby Roth (ranking), Donald Manzullo, Doug Bereuter, Jan Meyers, Cass Ballenger, Dana Rohrabacher. Foreign Affairs Committee: Democrats: Lee Hamilton (Chairman), Tom Lantos, Robert Torricelli, Howard Berman, Gary Ackerman, Eni Faleomavaega, Matthew Martinez, Robert Borski, Donal Payne, Robert Andrews, Robert Menendez, Sherrod Brown, Alcee Hastings, Peter Deutsch, Don Edwards, Frank McCloskey, Thomas Sawyer, Luis Gutierrez. Republicans: Benjamin Gilman (ranking), William Goodling, Jim Leach, Olympia Snowe, Henry Hyde, Christopher Smith, Dan Burton, Elton Gallegly, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, David Levy, Lincoln Diaz-Balart, Ed Royce. BOYCOTT CLIPPER DEVICES AND THE COMPANIES WHICH MAKE THEM. Don't buy anything with a Clipper chip in it. Don't buy any product from a company which manufactures devices with "Big Brother Inside." It is likely that the government will ask you to use Clipper for communications with the IRS or when doing business with Federal agencies. They cannot, as yet, require you to do so. Just say no. LEARN ABOUT ENCRYPTION AND EXPLAIN THE ISSUES TO YOUR UNWIRED FRIENDS The administration is banking on the likelihood that this stuff too technically obscure to agitate anyone but nerds like us. You prove them wrong by patiently explaining what's going on to all the people you know who have never touched a computer and glaze over at the mention of words like "cryptography." Maybe you glaze over yourself. Don't. It's not that hard. For some hands-on experience, download a copy of PGP, a shareware encryption engine which uses the robust RSA encryption algorithm. and learn to use it. GET YOUR COMPANY TO THINK ABOUT EMBEDDING REAL CRYPTOGRAPHY IN ITS PRODUCTS If you work for a company which makes software, computer hardware, or any kind of communications device, work from within to get them to incorporate RSA or some other strong encryption scheme into their products. If they say that they are afraid to violate the export embargo, ask them to consider manufacturing such products overseas and importing them back into the United States. There appears to be no law against that. As yet. You might also lobby your company to join the Digital Privacy and Security Working Group, a coalition of companies and public interest groups that includes IBM, Apple, Sun, Microsoft (and, interestingly, Clipper phone manufacturer AT&T) that is working to get the embargo lifted. JOIN EFF, CPSR, OR BOTH Self-serving as it sounds coming from me, I think you can do a lot to help by becoming a member of one of these organizations. In addition to giving you access to the latest information on this subject, every additional member strengthens our credibility with Congress. Join the Electronic Frontier Foundation by writing membership@eff.org. Join Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility by writing [provide e-mail address here.] In his LA speech, Gore called the development of the NII "a revolution." And it is a revolutionary war we are engaged in here. Clipper is a last ditch attempt by the United States, the last great power from the Industrial Era, to establish imperial control over Cyberspace. If they win, the most liberating development in the history of humankind could become, instead, the surveillance system which will monitor our grandchildren's morality. We can be better ancestors than that. John Perry Barlow is co-founder and Vice-Chairman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a group which defends liberty, both in Cyberspace and the Physical World. He has three daughters. End of Computer Underground Digest #6.24 ************************************ -- Tom Jennings -- tomj@wps.com -- World Power Systems -- San Francisco, Calif. From tomj Mon Mar 14 22:46:17 1994 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA02161; Mon, 14 Mar 94 22:46:13 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <9403150646.AA02161@wps.com> Subject: more Clipper To: shit-list Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 22:46:12 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 20876 Status: OR Shit-list is supposed to ba amusing, even if painful amusement. I don't want it to turn into a one-track strident monstrosity. However the gov'ts Clipper thing is at a curious point. It is very scary history-making actions here, it reall is a turning point in (U.S.) societal paradigm re: law enforcement's relation to it's citizenry. This outlines a clever trick Gilmore is pulling. He is one of the very few people who can afford the legal battle, if it goes that far. I hope they don't silkwood him. >From surfpunk-0105. Contact info near the end. From: surfpunk@osc.versant.com (jvgarffvat gur travhf bs senzref) To: surfpunk@osc.versant.com (SURFPUNK Technical Journal) Subject: [surfpunk-0105] FOIA: the Clipper Key Escrow databases * "I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers * of the society but the people themselves, and if we * think them not enlightened enough to exercise that * control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not * to take it from them, but to inform their discretion." * * -- Thomas Jefferson, 1820 * [passed along by librarian Ruth Reynolds] SURFPUNK BACKISSUES: ftp://ftp.yak.net/pub/surfpunk ALSO: ftp://ftp.eff.org/pub/Publications/CuD/Surfpunk/ John Gilmore has sent a Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) request for the database of escrowed key components. These are the half-keys that will be required to decrypt conversations on the pre-wiretapped Clipper encrypted telephones. The idea behind FOIA is that the U S Government should be accountable to its citizens by having its files and databases open to public inspection. The mechanism for doing this is to file a FOIA request to a government agency, and they are supposed to send you what you ask for, with some exceptions. Requesting the Clipper key databases seems silly at first, but really it strikes at the heart of why Clipper is such a bad idea: FOIA prevents government from collecting information about citizens that the citizens themselves cannot be trusted with. If we do not want other citizens listening in to our private conversations, the government has no business doing it, either, because they should be working *for* us. BTW, Eric Hughes points out that "escrowed" is not really the right word. An escrow agent is someone chosen and agreed to by both parties to hold something for future release under certain conditions. In the case of Clipper Keys, both parties do not get to agree to who the escrow agents are. They are chosen for you: one is the U S Treasury department, whose Secret Service brought you the Steve Jackson Games fiasco; the other is NIST, who is plowing ahead with the Clipper standard despite a nearly unanimous response against it during their period of public comment. It looks like John has created a mailing list foia-keys-request@toad.com if you're interested in following this. The Cypherpunks list is still at cypherpunks-request@toad.com. --strick ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ To: cypherpunks@toad.com, gnu@toad.com Subject: <6g> I have FOIA'd the Clipper Key Escrow databases Date: Fri, 25 Feb 94 12:58:40 -0800 From: gnu@toad.com There appears to be no FOIA exemption that would justify withholding the key escrow databases which Treasury and NIST are building. (The keys are not tied to any individual, so individual privacy isn't a valid exemption. The database isn't classified. Etc.) I have asked for a copy of each database, in toto. Letters were sent yesterday. One is reproduced below; the other is identical except for the addressee and minor details. You too can do things like this. It's fun and it occasionally produces highly useful information. Just think of something that the government knows, and has written down on paper, that you want to know. Ask them for it. You have the right to know. They're spending your taxes to subjugate you, and they're required to answer, though almost all agencies do it grudgingly. Post your request to the net, so that we-all will know it's happening, and can be inspired to think of other interesting things to ask for. You don't need all the boilerplate below about exemptions and time limits and stuff; that is to put the agencies on notice that we will push them in court, if necessary, to be responsive. Or you can use our boilerplate in your own requests, if you like. Alter the "media requester" section to suit your own situation. John [[ The actual FOIA request is at the end --strick ]] ________________________________________________________________________ Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 11:48:59 -0800 From: hughes@ah.com (Eric Hughes) Message-Id: <9402281948.AA05053@ah.com> To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: <8c> I have FOIA'd the Clipper Key Escrow databases Should John's FOIA request for the clipper key database work, it creates a wonderful hole in the entire key custody system. It would require a legislative act to plug the hole. This is extremely significant, since the whole clipper strategy is based on unchecked and unbalanced actions by the executive branch. No laws were passed to create clipper and no judicial review has taken place. John's request will be denied, no doubt, and will go to court. Should he prevail in court, the executive branch is bound by that decision. A key custody database which was public would make the system insecure and unusable. The executive branch could not change this. Only the legislature could. Now, how many legislators do you know that are going to make a public record by voting in favor of Big Brother? We are witnessing the genius of framers of the USA Constitution here, folks. Eric ________________________________________________________________________ To: smb@research.att.com Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com, gnu@toad.com Subject: <6g> Re: I have FOIA'd the Clipper Key Escrow databases In-Reply-To: <9402252135.AA04902@toad.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 94 00:21:43 -0800 > I confess -- I expect one of two outcomes. First, they may say that > the database is classified, if only at the level of ``For Official > Use Only''. `For Official Use Only' is not a valid classification. A document with this marking cannot be withheld under FOIA exemption 1. You have to read the Executive Orders on classification -- this category got cleaned up a LONG time ago. The current Executive Order gives particular criteria for classifying things. If this database doesn't fit any of those criteria, it can't legally be classified. I don't believe that this database is covered. And a judge in a FOIA case can do a "de novo" (from scratch) review of whether the material is legally classified, by examining it himself in private -- we don't have to take the agency's word that "there really is some reason it is classified". Also, giving classified information to unauthorized people is a major offense. They threatened me with that offense one time, over texts that I found in a library. If the keys in the database are classified, they can't give them out to cops. FOIA requires that they "segregate" any classified part and give me the rest of what's there, so if they claim that "well, one key isn't classified, but ten or a thousand of them are classified", I bet we can (1) get some keys out, (2) challenge this idea in court. In particular, it should be possible to record the LEAF from a particular chip (whether you own it, or not!) and send it to them in a FOIA request asking for the matching unit key. They clearly can map a LEAF to a key (they do it for cops), and FOIA only requires that you "reasonably describe" the records you want. Given their mapping capability, the LEAF is a reasonable description of the record you want. > Second, maybe they will release it -- but remember that > the keys are stored encrypted. Can you file an FOIA request for the > key, too? Either I can get the key, or I can get them to decrypt it for me. If they could hold arbitrary government records in secret by simply encrypting them and classifying the keys, FOIA would be entirely thwarted; the courts wouldn't let them get away with it. By the way, I did request the keys: > This request includes your database of the escrowed key > components. This request also includes any ancillary information > about the database, such as data formats, procedures, standards, > access methods, memos and documents about its use, access > software, plans, etc. If the database itself is stored in encrypted > form, then this request also includes the computer programs and > keys required to access it. John ________________________________________________________________________ law office of Lee Tien 1452 Curtis Street Berkeley, California 94702 _______________ tien@well.sf.ca.us voice: (510) 525-0817 fax: (510) 525-3015 February 24, 1994 Reference: KEY ESCROW DATABASE-TREASURY Departmental Disclosure Office Department of the Treasury Room 1054-MT Washington, D.C. 20220 ATTN: FOIA request Dear Sir or Madam: This is a request under the Freedom of Information Act [5 U.S.C. Sec. 552] on behalf of my client, Mr. John Gilmore. I write to request a copy of all agency records or portions thereof, in electronic or other form, which relate to the database of escrowed key components for encryption using the key escrow encryption method. The Attorney General announced on Friday, February 4, 1994, that the Automated Systems Division of the Department of the Treasury will be one of the two escrow agents. This request includes your database of the escrowed key components. This request also includes any ancillary information about the database, such as data formats, procedures, standards, access methods, memos and documents about its use, access software, plans, etc. If the database itself is stored in encrypted form, then this request also includes the computer programs and keys required to access it. We specifically request that you make the database available in electronic form, such as on magnetic tape. We remind you that the long-standing rule that the FOIA "makes no distinction between records maintained in manual and computer storage systems," Yeager v. D.E.A., 678 F.2d 315, 321 (D.C.Cir. 1982), has recently been amplified in Armstrong v. Executive Office of the President, 810 F.Supp. 335 (D.D.C. 1993). Any paper print-outs of electronic records, such as e-mail, must include all information in the electronic record. Assuming that there would be no loss of releasable information, such as written comments made on paper print-outs, we therefore ask you to release all responsive electronic records in electronic, i.e., machine-readable, form. As you know, the FOIA provides that an agency must make an initial determination of whether to comply with a FOIA request within ten working days of receiving the request. If the records that you possess were originated or classified by another organization, I ask that your organization declassify them (if needed) and release them to me, as provided in the FOIA, within the statutory time limits. If there is a conflict between the statutory time limits and some regulation or policy that requires you to refer the records, the statutory requirement takes precedence over any Executive-branch regulation, policy or practice. Congress placed a limit on the time which may be expended in referrals. The FOIA explicitly provides that referrals to other interested agencies or agency components are treated under the provision for "unusual circumstances," and cannot justify a delay of more than an additional 10 working days. 5 U.S.C. Sec. 552(a)(6)(B)(iii). "[W]hen an agency receives a FOIA request for 'agency records' in its possession it must take responsibility for processing the request. It cannot simply refuse to act on the ground that the documents originated elsewhere." McGehee v. C.I.A., 697 F.2d 1095, 1110 (D.C. Cir. 1983). Even records originated by other agencies are subject to immediate release under the applicable case law, if they were at the time of the request in the possession and control of your agency. Simply put, the FOIA and the case law take precedence over executive branch regulations or practices regarding referrals. If you do refer documents to any other agency, and they are not provided within the time limits, we intend to litigate on this point. As you know, the FOIA provides that even if some requested material is properly exempted from mandatory disclosure, all segregable portions must be released. [5 U.S.C. Sec. 552(b)] If any or all material covered by this request is withheld, please inform me of the specific exemptions that are being claimed, and mark all deletions to indicate the exemption(s) being claimed to authorize each individual withholding. If the (b)(3) exemption is claimed, please indicate the relevant withholding statute(s). If any records are withheld, I request a Vaughn index or its equivalent during the administrative process. "[T]he objective of the Vaughn requirements, to permit the requesting party to present its case effectively, is equally applicable to proceedings within the agency." Mead Data Central v. Department of the Air Force, 402 F.Supp. 460 (D.D.C. 1974), remanded, 566 F.2d 242 (D.C. Cir. 1977) aff'd, 575 F.2d 932 (D.C. Cir. 1978). "[A] person cannot effectively appeal a decision about the releasability of documents ... if he is not informed of at least a list of the documents to which he was denied access ... and why those decisions were made. Denial of this information would in all likelihood be a denial of due process as well as effectively gutting the reasons for applying the exhaustion doctrine in FOIA cases." Shermco Industries, Inc. v. Secretary of the Air Force, 452 F.Supp. 306, 317 n.7 (N.D. Tex. 1978); see Oglesby v. Department of the Army, 920 F.2d 57, 65 (D.C. Cir. 1990) (citing Shermco). It should be simple to prepare a list and the claimed exemptions as the records are processed. Disclosing such information would not disclose any exempt information and it would make it easier to appeal your initial determination on the merits. In addition, I ask that your agency exercise its discretion to release information that may be technically exempt. As you know, the Attorney General on October 4, 1993, directed that agencies should administer the FOIA under a presumption of disclosure, and that information which need not be withheld should not be. I remind you that under Chrysler v. Brown, 441 U.S. 281, 293 (1979), the 5 U.S.C. Sec. 552(b) exemptions are discretionary, not mandatory. An agency can generally choose to release exempt information. This discretionary review process for withholding cannot take precedence over the law, which requires a response within specified time limits. Moreover, that discretion, according to the Attorney General's October 4, 1993 memorandum, must be exercised in accordance with a presumption of disclosure. Even if a substantial legal basis exists for withholding, information is not to be withheld unless it need be. I also request that fees be waived because Mr. Gilmore should be deemed a media requester by your agency for FOIA purposes, and because the public interest would be furthered by a fee waiver. The D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals has held that "a representative of the news media is, in essence, a person or entity that gathers information of potential interest to a segment of the public, uses its editorial skills to turn the raw materials into a distinct work, and distributes that work to an audience." National Security Archive v. Department of Defense, 880 F.2d 1381, 1387 (D.C.Cir. 1989), cert. denied 494 U.S. 1029 (1990). This definition applies strongly to Mr. Gilmore, who is a co- founder and director of the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), a Washington, D.C.-based public interest organization. The EFF has been intimately involved in policy discussions concerning key escrow encryption and distributes information to the public by newsletter and electronic distribution about this and other topics involving civil liberties. Mr. Gilmore is also a skilled computer programmer who has spent the last ten years distributing his work for public use to a worldwide audience on the Internet and the Usenet. Mr. Gilmore is also entitled to a fee waiver because "disclosure of the information is in the public interest because it is likely to contribute significantly to public understanding of the operations or activities of the government and is not primarily in the commercial interest of the requester." There exists a tremendous public debate over the wisdom and legality of the key escrow encryption plan, as I am sure you are well aware. Your agency's database is clearly an operation of the government in which the public has a great interest. The Vice President himself has publicly expressed doubt about the delegating key escrow responsibilities to agencies which are part of the executive branch. The information requested herein relates to such doubt. This information is not yet in the public record, so the request makes a substantial contribution to the public understanding. This request is not primarily in the commercial interest of Mr. Gilmore. He will not benefit financially from this information in any way. He intends to disseminate the requested records widely and freely to inform this public debate. Should there be any problem in this regard, Mr. Gilmore promises to pay up to $1000 in fees, and you should therefore begin processing of this request without fee-related delays. As provided under the FOIA, I will expect a reply within ten (10) working days. Sincerely, Lee Tien Attorney at Law On behalf of Mr. John Gilmore ________________________________________________________________________ The SURFPUNK Technical Journal is a dangerous multinational hacker zine originating near BARRNET in the fashionable western arm of the northern California matrix. Quantum Californians appear in one of two states, spin surf or spin punk. Undetected, we are both, or might be neither. ________________________________________________________________________ Submissions: , Subscriptions: . Backissues: ftp://ftp.yak.net/pub/surfpunk also ftp://ftp.eff.org/pub/Publications/CuD/Surfpunk/ ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Vice President Al Gore's comments: By Jay Levin (C) 1994 From New York Unix Vol 4 #3. WASHINGTON, Feb 11 Under the Clipper plan, the keys would be stored at the Treasury Department and the National Insitute of Standards and Technology (NIST), whic is part of the Commerce Department. Both Treasury and Commerce are from the same branch of government, the executive branch. "When I saw that I said 'Wow. That is not right,' and I raised hell about that," Gore said in an interview Thursday. Having the key holders from the same branch of government raises concern because there is no systems of checks and balances, Gore said. "That's going to be changed," he said. ... The selection of NIST and Treasury "was spun out of the process at the low level and was not vetted at the top," Gore said. Gore's comments were made after appearing before the first meeting of a private sector advisory panel on the development of a "national information infrastructure" in Washington, D.C. From: Carl Ellison >The FBI and the Justice Department say the initiative would >not expand their power, but would ensure access to the type of >communications they have been entitled to tap for years. This is totally bogus. The FBI has never had the right to watch computer programs execute. Now that computer programs are being written as distributed systems, what was originally written to be an internal subroutine call can look like a message over the phone system. The FBI never had the right to bug corporate conference rooms. Now that companies are using videoconferencing, a private corporate conference could look like a phone call. Etc. This needs to be fought. - Carl To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: SQUISH I just received a notice concerning your game. Please send me some more information on how to join/play as well as any rules. Thanks, Jeff -- Tom Jennings -- tomj@wps.com -- World Power Systems -- San Francisco, Calif. From IGW@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu Tue Mar 15 09:11:17 1994 Received: from tiamat.umd.umich.edu by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA03892; Tue, 15 Mar 94 09:11:09 -0800 Received: from cw-f1.umd.umich.edu by tiamat.umd.umich.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19769; Tue, 15 Mar 94 12:10:20 EST Received: from CW-F1/MAIL_INN by cw-f1.umd.umich.edu (Mercury 1.1); Tue, 15 Mar 94 12:13:52 EDT To: dina@wps.com From: IGW@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu Organization: University of Michigan-Dearborn Date: 15 Mar 1994 12:09:45 EST5EDT Subject: i got an a Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.02 Message-Id: <27148C74B7E@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu> Status: OR hi! i can't say much but i am really excited!!Andrew (shryock) loved my paper...he said it's at least an A, but he hasn't graded it yet because he's trying to figure out how high he can go without feeling guilty. He said he picked up, started reading and couldn't put it down until all 54 pages were read...i'm thrilled-it's a good day!!!! i hope your day goes as well as mine is, if it does you'll definitely be grinning from ear to ear...i've got to go to class-if you have time write me ok...miss you..love you...tina From jshepher@rvcc.raritanval.edu Wed Mar 16 15:40:07 1994 Received: from rvcc.raritanval.edu by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA00221; Wed, 16 Mar 94 15:39:54 -0800 Message-Id: <9403162339.AA00221@wps.com> Subject: Re: hello sweet thing To: dina@wps.com (Dina Palivos) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 18:40:42 -0500 (EST) From: John Shepherd In-Reply-To: <9403162210.AA08958@wps.com> from "Dina Palivos" at Mar 16, 94 02:10:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 418 Status: OR ...I'm blushing again. I don't know that I'm that sweet... I just tried to call you at home, right before I read your message. No answer. Anyway, it's been great reading your notes. i'm sorry to hear your not feeling good. I've a bit of a sore throat, too. Things are rolling along for me, too. Off school this week, but REAL busy at work. I need to run. I'll keep your number this time ;) "See" ya, John From IGW@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu Wed Mar 30 10:58:01 1994 Received: from toad.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA10527; Wed, 30 Mar 94 10:57:56 -0800 Received: from tiamat.umd.umich.edu by toad.com id AA18197; Wed, 30 Mar 94 10:57:49 PST From: IGW@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu Received: from cw-f1.umd.umich.edu by tiamat.umd.umich.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15423; Wed, 30 Mar 94 13:16:41 EST Received: from CW-F1/MAIL_INN by cw-f1.umd.umich.edu (Mercury 1.11); Wed, 30 Mar 94 13:19:58 EDT Received: from MAIL_INN by CW-F1 (Mercury 1.11); Wed, 30 Mar 94 13:19:24 EDT Organization: University of Michigan-Dearborn To: dina@wps.com Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 13:19:13 EST5EDT Subject: hi sweetie X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-Mailer: PMail v3.0 (R1) Message-Id: <3DA8B4D24C6@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu> Status: OR ahh!! i finally finished the first stage of my ten year project...it was ok, but of course i already have the first set of revisions ready in my mind...i really had fun talking to you the other day, i miss you a lot! i am definitely come out there this summer, when? i don't know, but i'll get there...i also told rob we need to talk about you two, he seemed receptive and willing, i'll let you know how it goes..i have such a crush on andrew shryock, it's getting out of control...what is it with me? i fall for straight girls, catholic boys and married men...sounds like a title for a self- help book doesn't it? maybe, i'll get on oprah with this.. "bisexual queer: how not to find a good relationship?" haha...anyway, i'm crazy about him, i'd do him in a minute...although i still have an insane amount of work to do, i'm feeling very good about myself and about life....i honestly believe i'll finish it all...wow...other than that, nothing much different since we last talked...i have to get to work..i'll be here all day if you have time...can you believe nick didn't call mom on her birthday-asshole!!! well, i didn't either, but i saw her when i got home and i told her i'd take her out when the semester was over...until last night, i had only had 6 hours sleep in 4 days...so i was a little scatterbrained...i think she forgives me though...nefra's brother sent her some presents-he seems pretty sweet- he jokes with me on the phone all the time...anyway, let me know how you are...tell everyone i said hi...i miss you all, but of course especially you...after we talked that day, i played some pearl jam and rem(automatic for the people---callin' chet baker-haha) just to remind me of you...well, i gotta go---write soon...love you tina From tomj Wed Mar 30 13:01:39 1994 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA10963; Wed, 30 Mar 94 13:01:36 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <9403302101.AA10963@wps.com> Subject: disk full! To: wps-users Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 13:01:36 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1173 Status: OR Well, the /u (ie. users') partition is full. It's not a problem for me. Don't panic on my regard! You might want to look through your files and delete things you don't need. If you have some large files you want to archive, let me know; I can put them on a tape for you. If you want a copy of the tape, a QIC-150, for $20 I'll make you a verified copy and mial it to you. FYI. But I will spool it off onto a tape for free, if you have some giant archive you want saved. Otherwise, the system is full until someone removes a bunch of files. If you ever want to know how much space is available, use 'df', which is the closest thing to CHKDSK, and about as informative: Filesystem 512-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/wd0a 15758 13394 788 94% / /dev/wd0h 321678 274796 14714 95% /usr /dev/wd1a 103482 90702 2430 97% /u <<------ THIS ONE /dev/wd1h 533988 434270 46318 90% /hell It give the number of 512-byte blocks (sigh), times 2 for K bytes. Hmm, there's some space left, so someoone deleteed some. -- Tom Jennings -- tomj@wps.com -- World Power Systems -- San Francisco, Calif. From jshepher@rvcc.raritanval.edu Wed Mar 30 16:53:54 1994 Received: from rvcc.raritanval.edu by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA12544; Wed, 30 Mar 94 16:53:40 -0800 Message-Id: <9403310053.AA12544@wps.com> Subject: hi To: dina@wps.com Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 19:51:58 -0500 (EST) From: John Shepherd X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 487 Status: OR Hi! I'm just about to go home but wanted to drop you a line finally. I tried to call the other day; it was busy :< I hope your cheering up. I bet the weather has been just fabulous. I keep thinking about you doing the topless sunbathin. g thing. Mmmmmmm. I thought it was funny that you thought it was funny that I quoted your message back. I do that a lot. it helps me keep track of what I'm saying. Well, like I said, I gotta run. I hope to speak to you soon!!!! John From IGW@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu Mon Apr 4 17:00:34 1994 Received: from tiamat.umd.umich.edu by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA00318; Mon, 4 Apr 94 17:00:31 -0700 Received: from cw-f1.umd.umich.edu by tiamat.umd.umich.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18993; Mon, 4 Apr 94 19:59:40 EDT Received: from CW-F1/MAIL_INN by cw-f1.umd.umich.edu (Mercury 1.11); Mon, 4 Apr 94 20:01:04 EDT Received: from MAIL_INN by CW-F1 (Mercury 1.11); Mon, 4 Apr 94 20:00:47 EDT To: dina@wps.com From: IGW@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu Organization: University of Michigan-Dearborn Date: 4 Apr 1994 18:59:29 EST5EDT Subject: Re: hi Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.02 Message-Id: <458514171EE@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu> Status: OR hi there! i'm so glad dad, mom, and I talked today..but honestly, i'm completely exhausted and now i have to sit still for the next twelve hours and finish a paper...ugh! wish me luck. i hope you're feeling a little better about all this...things did go very well today...i can't say much, i'm glad we're in this together. i can't imagine my life without you in it. all of this has made me realize more than ever how fortunate we are to have each other. i know you know this but i just want to say i love you very very much, as my sister and especially as my friend...well, that's all, if i get too mushy i'll probably cry. i'm off to compose a brillant(doubt it) piece on the middle east-i can hardly wait...damn, i ate those coneys and there are too many people around to fart-you know how bad they can get!haha--this is good, i giggled! ok, gotta go..if you have time and or energy to reply i'll be here until 1100 my time..see you sweetie..love tina From IGW@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu Wed Apr 6 10:18:49 1994 Received: from tiamat.umd.umich.edu by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA10208; Wed, 6 Apr 94 10:18:44 -0700 From: IGW@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu Received: from cw-f1.umd.umich.edu by tiamat.umd.umich.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00783; Wed, 6 Apr 94 13:17:48 EDT Received: from CW-F1/MAIL_INN by cw-f1.umd.umich.edu (Mercury 1.11); Wed, 6 Apr 94 13:18:17 EDT Received: from MAIL_INN by CW-F1 (Mercury 1.11); Wed, 6 Apr 94 13:17:51 EDT Organization: University of Michigan-Dearborn To: dina@wps.com Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 13:17:43 EST5EDT Subject: hi there X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-Mailer: PMail v3.0 (R1) Message-Id: <481A2703B72@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu> Status: OR i love your new message! what do george and josh think of it? i think you should've played "come, come come into my arms let me know the wonder of all of you!" you are out and about in barry mode...i'm in much better spirits today...i got another A yeah! also, i talked to moerman-the brillant one, the other day, he asked me to help one of his students who is doing a project on the berdache...i helped her and today he told me that she talked to him about me and he said "you walk on water!" wow! i'm jesus now, and well on my way to god status! how sacriligeous, it's holy week,i hope i get zapped while i type this! anyway, things went well with andrew yesterday...i was with him from 9am to9pm...just the formula it takes to make me really loopy in love...straight girls catholic boys and married men...how do i ever expect to get laid? oh well, maybe this summer i'll fall for some queer ladies...or at least get fucked by them..i feel so trashy..it was funny yesterday when we went to the mosque on our field trip. we had to cover our heads...being nice ladies you know...well..the other ladies wore traditional scarfs-solid and covering their heads...i wore this bright burgundy sheer sexy veil with my hair flowing all over--i told andrew i felt like i had defeated the purpose considering i looked my like a little harlot-he laughed and said it was the thought that counts---thanks....anyway, today i have to be brillant and compose another paper for my dear prof..he said not to worry that my first drafts are probably A's. i told him i didn't want to disappoint him after the first very fun paper--he said i could never disappoint him--he loves me you know, can't you tell? he's just married, so he can't show it...ok, i'm getting out of control-so what? oh, last thing...i'd like to spend six weeks with you in the summer-july and half of august if that's ok...i've decided to try and get some field work done--maybe some interviews with miss x and kitty, now that you're in the scene..but of course those are secondary object, the first being of course to meet some lil ladies or big ones for that matter--i wouldn't mind being bossed around and tyed up--but you don't need to know that-- haha..ok, i'd ask how you are--but you know i want to know-so please write if you have time, ok!! i love you--mom seems a lot better now...so don't worry, take care tina... From IGW@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu Wed Apr 6 18:12:12 1994 Received: from tiamat.umd.umich.edu by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA01135; Wed, 6 Apr 94 18:12:08 -0700 From: IGW@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu Received: from cw-f1.umd.umich.edu by tiamat.umd.umich.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03954; Wed, 6 Apr 94 21:11:16 EDT Received: from CW-F1/MAIL_INN by cw-f1.umd.umich.edu (Mercury 1.11); Wed, 6 Apr 94 21:11:54 EDT Received: from MAIL_INN by CW-F1 (Mercury 1.11); Wed, 6 Apr 94 21:11:30 EDT Organization: University of Michigan-Dearborn To: dina@wps.com Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 21:11:21 EST5EDT Subject: ugh!! X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-Mailer: PMail v3.0 (R1) Message-Id: <489878E2B67@cw-f1.umd.umich.edu> Status: O i'm not feeling very brillant..my good mood is unfortunately fading fast..why oh why do i have to make my life so difficult-boohoo--just listen to this thesis i'm working on now. "This paper will explore how elements of Islam and Christian Fundamentalism are used to define and justify women's roles in "traditional" American and Middle Eastern familial hierarchies. Given the scope of this analysis, I will discuss the roles of women with respect to cultural constructs--confinement, protection, and normative restriction--that are used to sustain their positions in the familial hierarchy. It will become apparent that the extent to which these practices are emphasized is directly related to the adaptability of this family structure withiin varying economic situations. Drawing on examples of Middle Eastern Islamic and American Evangelical practices, I will illustrate the similarities between their value constructs." ughughugh!!this is a really tough essay and i'm feeling rather confused...i need help..will you write it for me...didn't think so..sorry to blahblahblah--i'm just tired lonely and frustrated...oh well, another all nighter!!!i better get back to work-take care,miss you lots, especially now...love tina From tomj Thu Apr 7 17:23:16 1994 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA05139; Thu, 7 Apr 94 17:23:14 -0700 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <9404080023.AA05139@wps.com> Subject: NEw hardware!! To: wps-users Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 17:23:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 382 Status: O This machine will be off the air for some number of hours, spottily, this weekend. I've got a new computer to install, a 486DX2-66 plus a gigabyte disk. Oh boy. Theold machine will be a bag on the side of the new one, in case any funny business happens. You might not even notice the change over. -- Tom Jennings -- tomj@wps.com -- World Power Systems -- San Francisco, Calif. From tomj@wps.com Fri Apr 8 10:12:47 1994 Received: from localhost (tomj@localhost) by fido.wps.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) id KAA00322 for wps-users; Fri, 8 Apr 1994 10:12:37 -0700 From: Tom Jennings Message-Id: <199404081712.KAA00322@fido.wps.com> Subject: testing To: wps-users@wps.com Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 10:12:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 84 -- Tom Jennings -- tomj@wps.com -- World Power Systems -- San Francisco, Calif. From tomj@wps.com Fri Apr 8 10:34:49 1994 Received: from localhost (tomj@localhost) by fido.wps.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) id KAA00255 for wps-users; Fri, 8 Apr 1994 10:34:47 -0700 From: Tom Jennings Message-Id: <199404081734.KAA00255@fido.wps.com> Subject: hello? To: wps-users@wps.com Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 10:34:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 84 -- Tom Jennings -- tomj@wps.com -- World Power Systems -- San Francisco, Calif. From tomj@wps.com Fri Apr 8 10:36:07 1994 Received: from localhost (tomj@localhost) by fido.wps.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) id KAA00273 for wps-users; Fri, 8 Apr 1994 10:36:07 -0700 From: Tom Jennings Message-Id: <199404081736.KAA00273@fido.wps.com> Subject: foo To: wps-users@wps.com Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 10:36:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 84 -- Tom Jennings -- tomj@wps.com -- World Power Systems -- San Francisco, Calif. From tomj@wps.com Fri Apr 8 18:03:48 1994 Received: from localhost by fido.wps.com (8.6.5/wps.com-hackery) id LAA00256; Fri, 8 Apr 1994 11:03:47 -0700 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199404081803.LAA00256@wps.com> Subject: if you're experienceing troubles... To: wps-users Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 11:03:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 345 Let me know. I'v ejust switched over to the new hardware, and I had problems all day long with mail. YOu might have had some mail bounce. My profuse apologies! I tested some things, and of courser those were'nt broke... If you have any troubles, let me know. -- Tom Jennings -- tomj@wps.com -- World Power Systems -- San Francisco, Calif.