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\lline{\hl Interview with William S. Burroughs}
\lline{by Deke Motif Nihilson}
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This interview was conducted on Halloween day 1990, thank Gawdess¨
because it's about the only way I could feel much better about¨
missing the Larry Lea dumbfucks at Civic Center. Working some¨
provocative leads, me and my friend David went to Lawrence KS the¨
previous Saturday and found Mr. Burroughs. I gave him a wad of¨
queer zines, all the ones I had copies of on hand (Chainsaw,¨
Sister Nobody, Pavement of Surface, Faggot, JD's, and mais oui¨
some Homocores). He was into being interviewed for Homocore, so¨
over the next few days I worked it on out with his personal¨
secretary James Grauerholtz, a very sweet man who remembered me¨
from the River City Reunion back in '87.

So anyway, we set this up on th' phone (I in K.C., they in¨
Larrytown) and my friends there picked up the bill (ahem) for all¨
those logistical calls, so additional thanx to the¨
Sorrels/Zastoupil household.

P.S. I also talked to Mr. Grauerholtz for another 20 minutes or¨
so, but for the purposes of space kept the transcript to me¨
(Deke) and Uncle Bill (WSB). Mr. Grauerholtz was very lucid and¨
witty about the state of both queer lib and ``punk''/youth¨
culture. He was wonderfully facilitating and I thank him special.

P.P.S. Burroughs and Grauerholtz both love Homocore, but probably¨
not as much as we love them! Enough. The interview\dots

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{\ninepointsanserif WSB WITH E-METER (photo stolen from RE/SEARCH¨
\#4/5 without permission)}

{\bf Deke:} Both Tom Jennings, the editor of Homocore, and myself¨
have been really interested in your discussion of Tongs as a¨
model of group mutual support and protection. However, this model¨
seems suited to professionals with money. Do you think Tongs¨
could function without a lot of money and on street-level?

{\bf WSB:} Yes, I think so. Remember [the sort I spoke of] were¨
modeled on the Chinese Tongs, and many of the Chinese were very¨
impoverished. The idea was that the people who had more money¨
would help those that didn't.

{\bf Deke:} Well, at least in the U.S., and as far as I've ever¨
seen, organizations in the gay community tend to be more of the¨
upper-class businessmen-type variety. We [Homopunks] are¨
operating much more of a street-level reality. We're wondering¨
how Tongs might mesh up better with our own particular needs.

{\bf WSB:} Well, I certainly think you could, if you got support¨
from like-minded professionals. Also, I think some sort of¨
commando groups to act against gay-bashers is a very good idea. ¨
That requires no money, just dedication, like the Guardian¨
Angels.

{\bf Deke:} There has been some discussion, like in OUTWEEK about¨
whether or not homosexuals should arm themselves\dots

{\bf WSB:} I think they should. There's various weapons, of¨
course [long pause] tear gas is always good. It's a good weapon¨
and it doesn't necessarily leave corpses laying about. Capsdun is¨
the best teargas.

{\bf Deke:} Capsdun?

{\bf WSB:} Yes, that's C-A-P-S-D-U-N. Many, all of the places¨
that sell teargas now sell Capsdun. Stop a charging Doberman in¨
its tracks.

{\bf Deke:} To say nothing of the next bigot running down the¨
street after you! Do you see gay identity itself as a means of¨
liberation?

{\bf WSB:} Well, in a sense, yes. I mean, I remember when I was¨
younger, back in the 1920's, it was all sorta swept under the¨
carpet. Nobody came out in the open with it. It works both ways,¨
though. One of the things that causes anti-gay action is the fact¨
that they dare to squawk about it. A lot of straight people say,¨
``Oh well, it's fine, we know about it, we just don't wanna have¨
it shoved at us, that's all.''

{\bf Deke:} In your personal experience, what have you found to¨
be the most effective tool for fighting homophobia?

{\bf WSB:} Actually, I haven't run up against very much of it,¨
personally. Well, I always used to carry a weapon in New York¨
City, usually tear gas or a blackjack, but not because of 
gay-bashers so much as general violence.

{\bf Deke:} Do you think there can be a political solution to¨
bigotry?

{\bf WSB:} Uh, no. I don't see that. You can't legislate decent¨
behavior.

{\bf Deke:} Right. So many bigots seem to be legislators.

{\bf WSB:} Well, that's it, that's the trouble of course.

{\bf Deke:} Do you think it can be addressed on its own terms?

{\bf WSB:} Certainly it always falls to the good, the more¨
liberal legislators that can be placed in office. Gay legislators¨
too, of course.

{\bf Deke:} As is already happening to a degree\dots

{\bf WSB:} That always helps, it's a step in the right direction.

{\bf Deke:} Do you see AIDS as a governmentally-manufactur\-ed¨
biological plot?

{\bf WSB:} Well, if I had to bet my money -- I say, if I HAD to bet¨
my money, I'd say it probably was deliberate. Now Dr. Seale of¨
London, an AIDS specialist, he attributed it to the Russians. ¨
Well I don't see that they have anything to gain by eliminating¨
homosexuals and intravenous drug users. And also, it's a very¨
simple job of biological engineering, genetic tinkering, with the¨
visnu virus, which is found in sheep and is always fatal. There¨
is something called the Committee Against War and Fascism, that¨
came right out and said that AIDS is biological warfare by the¨
U.S. Government against people, against gays and blacks.

{\bf Deke:} Do you think the populations hardest hit by AIDS were¨
specifically targeted?

{\bf WSB:} Well, it seems so. If you think of the seed of it as¨
being man-made, deliberately induced, then it is certainly very¨
specifically targeted. It could've been introduced through the¨
needle business. The addict population forms a ready-made conduit¨
for the introduction of any biological or chemical weapon. It¨
could've been introduced through the needles. You can't put¨
viruses in something like heroin because they live for a very¨
short time outside the body, but they can put it in the needles.¨
Most people buy their needles where they buy their heroin.

Rather odd that it should appear first in intravenous drug¨
abusers who are notably sexually {\it in}active. With an STD,¨
you'd hardly expect it to start with a segment of the population¨
that has very inactive sex lives.

{\bf Deke:} Are you still writing at all?

{\bf WSB:} Oh yes, yes. I have a book coming out, I think in the¨
spring. It's an abridged version of a book called GHOST OF CHANCE¨
which is about Madagascar and lemurs.

{\bf Deke:} Oh, was that -- there was a story in OMNI\dots

{\bf WSB:} Yes, that's it. That was an excerpt. When the straight¨
edition will come out, I'm not sure. This one's being put out by¨
the Whitney Museum. George Condo, a young artist, does the¨
illustration to my text. It's a condensed text of the novel. But¨
I hope that the trade edition will be out next fall.

{\bf Deke:} One thing I've always particularly enjoyed about your¨
books is what might be referred to as the ``pornographic''¨
contents, the non-time-local sexual scenes. Do you ever foresee¨
yourself writing any more of that?

{\bf WSB:} Perhaps I would [pause] there's very little sex in¨
this book I've just finished, The Ghost of Chance. As you get¨
older, you begin to ask yourself how much sex has to do with sex.

{\bf Deke:} What do you mean?

{\bf WSB:} Well, it's a complicated question. The actual buttons¨
that cause arousal in many cases are non-sexual. [Long pause.]

{\bf Deke:} I wanna end by asking if there's anything you'd¨
particularly care to say to all the queer kids out there?

{\bf WSB:} I'm very militantly inclined and I certainly feel that¨
they should defend themselves.

{\bf Deke:} Do you think preemptive attacks would every be¨
justified?

{\bf WSB:} Oh yes, certainly; offense is the best defense in all¨
military actions. Don't wait for them to attack if they're going¨
to attack.

WSB Communications / POB 147 / Lawrence, KS 66044


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{\ninepointsanserif WILLIAM ON MARS (photocollage by J.P.A,¨
stolen from RE/SEA\-RCH \#4/5 without permission)}

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