From gnu@toad.com Fri Mar  5 00:37:03 1993
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To: lamb@xtcn.com, gnu@toad.com
Cc: tomj@fido.wps.com
Subject: Re: ISDN routers 
In-Reply-To: <9303031414.aa25876@gateway.xtcn.com> 
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 93 00:38:02 -0800
From: gnu@toad.com
Status: OR

I've cc'd Tom Jennings, who manages our network (the Little Garden net).

> The box has a AUI+10BaseT interface on one end and a RJ-45 to connect to the
> pair out of the wall for ISDN (2B1Q signalling).

Almost perfect...

This means to daisy-chain one site to the next in the network, you
need two, which is kinda steep ($4K/site since you need one at each
end).

Livingston 56K IP routers with four serial ports and AUI are running
about $2300.  Add $600 per port in use, for a DSU/CSU.  Presumably
ISDN will be easier and cheaper to deal with, eventually.  At the
moment it's too exotic to be cheap, I guess.

Is the product brand new?  What volumes would you need to sell to get
the price down to about $500?  What size is it?  (Preferable size is Ethernet
transceiver size -- big enough for the connectors and nothing more.)

> However I would be more than willing to put RIP routing in it (or have
> someone do it) to help my fellow IP'ers. Should take a few weeks to put it
> in. Would plain old RIP be enough ? Could you help me test it ?
> In return we can talk about a "special deal" for something close to cost.

We don't need RIP; we set up static routes in our network.

We've thought about going to a routing protocol, but so far it hasn't been
worth the effort.  Every router knows explicit routes to everything 
"leafward" from it, and contains a default route that points toward the
next router back "rootward" (toward the Internet).

> It is a standalone product. AUI+TP+RJ-11/45+wall xfrmr.

How is it managed?  Over the Ethernet?  Livingston has a great
point&click program that manages their routers using IP over Ether.
You can literally plunk down the router, plug it into power and ether,
pop a floppy into your Sun, run the program, and config the router
from your screen.  Much better than toggling little switches, or
finding a 9600 baud terminal and fiddling with null modems.

> Great ! you can get ISDN lines there ?

Some of our sites can get them.  Our Mt. View offices can.  Our SF
site can't yet.  It depends on when the telco last replaced the CO
serving that area.

If you have online literature, please send me some.  If you have printed
stuff, send that too...

	John Gilmore
	Cygnus Support
	1937 Landings Drive
	Mountain View, CA  94043
	+1 415 903 1400  switchboard
	+1 415 903 1418  me
	+1 415 903 0122  fax
	gnu@cygnus.com	 email, work
	gnu@toad.com	 email, home