From tomj Wed Apr 14 13:53:32 1993
Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/1.34)
	id AA00976; Wed, 14 Apr 93 13:52:54 -0700
From: tomj (Tom Jennings)
Message-Id: <9304142052.AA00976@fido.wps.com>
Subject: IP services
To: ittai@ans.net
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 13:52:54 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: randy@psg.com (Randy Bush), gnu@cygnus.com (John Gilmore),
        tomj (Tom Jennings), pozar@kumr.lns.com (Tim Pozar)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 2546      
Status: OR


Dear Ittai Hirschman --


Things have changed a bit since I last talked to you. We are going to
band forces with a workalike network in Portland, operated
by my friend Randy Bush and John Klensin. I know Randy from about 8
years back, when we were defining FidoNet's protocols, laying out
testing suites, all that sort of thing. We've worked together in the
years since then, and now I'm in this position of "sysoping" an
Internet-peer network. The times they are a changin'... :-)

So basically here's the story:

We have two networks spanning Washington, Oregon and California; during
the switchover to a new carrier we will consolidate into a
single network by running a T1 between us, and taking our feed to the
Internet from one end or the other.

Our net, The Little Garden (TLG), has 22 members, each a subnetted
stand-alone network. Two of our sites are medium-sized businesses; the
others are social/political support groups, public BBS access to
Internet resources, etc, as well as some small businesses. We have a T1
feed to our IP supplier.

RAINnet, out of Portland OR, is the other network. They have approx. 25
sites. Their members are mainly research into very-low-cost IP networking. 
They have a 56K feed, and an immediate need to increase this.

Both TLG and RAINnet have similar paradigms; we are explicitly not
providing "services", we don't gaurentee 100% up time (though we are
quite reliable). Both TLG and RAINnet exist to push the limit of 
networking down. (TLG currently charges $70/mo for 14,400 baud 
connection, plus $250 installation.)

Both of us have reached the limits of our growth as concerns our current
IP suppliers. Both of us have immediate plans to connect a number of
additional network members. We want to be able to expand our networks as
required, without restriction.

So I guess what we need to talk about is pricing for a T1 to our
combined networks, via TLG in Mountain View CA. 

Here are the "hard questions" that seem to bother IP carriers (aka
("service providers"). Hopefully we could work out solutions to any
problems we might encounter. 


  o Does your, or your upstream's, AUP prevent all the uses we plan?

  o Will you advertise all NSFNET approved networks to the NSFNET?

  o Will you limit the hosts, sites, networks, users we hook up?

  o Do you limit to and from whom we may pass on data?


			Sincerely,

				Tom Jennings <tomj@fido.wps.com>



PS: I received the datasheet package last week.

-- 
  Tom Jennings / tomj@fido.wps.com / World Power Systems / San Francisco CA