From info Tue Jan 4 00:24:55 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id AAA02171; Tue, 4 Jan 1994 00:24:54 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 00:24:54 -0800 Message-Id: <199401040824.AAA02171@tlg.org> From: Info@tlg.org Subject: The Little Garden -- Internet connectivity Apparently-To: flesh Status: OR This message is an automatic response to your request for information on The Little Garden (TLG). Your message was forwarded to a human as well, so if you asked any specific questions they'll get answered shortly. Signed, Admin@tlg.org THE LITTLE GARDEN -- IP SERVICES The Little Garden (TLG) is a buyers club providing Internet connectivity in the greater San Francisco Bay Area. Our prices are the cost of connectivity plus our reasonably low overhead. In exchange for these low prices, we expect members to be somewhat self-sufficient technically. Many members become involved in the operation of TLG, though this is not necessary. We have Points of Presence (POPs) in San Francisco, Mountain View and Palo Alto. We have affiliates in other regions providing similar service. We are working on extending into other areas. TLG provides high-quality, reliable basic IP connectivity via full-time SLIP or PPP, secondary Domain Name Service (DNS), and in some cases, address space. We provide you with the help necessary to get online. We don't provide shell accounts, shared, part-time IP, etc. TLG places no restrictions on content or use of your connection, including reselling, "back door" hosts, etc. You are of course required to comply with any AUPs of any networks you communicate with or through and of course any applicable laws. Compliance with this is the member's responsibility. PRICES: 56K SERVICE PRICES: One-time installation fee (non-refundable) . . . . . . $400. Monthly connection fee . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $325. T1 SERVICE PRICES: One-time installation fee (non-refundable) . . . . . . $500. Monthly connection fee . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $800. Each member must provide their own CSU/DSU pair, and a 56K or T1 capable connection to their system (such as a router). Each member must also provide a standalone router at the TLG end or pay for a fraction of a multi-port router. OTHER HIGH-SPEED SERVICE: We are more than willing to work out fair prices on other types of connections at other speeds, such as 64Kb/s ISDN, 200Kb/s radio, etc. LOW-SPEED DIAL-UP SERVICE PRICES: TLG offers modem-based full-time IP using telephone lines and dialup-type modems. Additional information is provided near the end of this datasheet. Ask for further details. One-time installation fee (non-refundable) . . . . . . $250. Monthly connection fee . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $70. The following list gives estimates of goods and services that the member must cover. (Probable telco one-time installation fees, total . . $70. (Probable monthly telco charges, total . . . . . . . . $21. (Pair of v32bis/v42bis modems, retail . . . . . . . . $400. PAYMENT DETAILS: One-time installation fees, and member-supplied hardware must be provided before TLG initiates the connection. Members are invoiced for monthly connect fees three months at a time. Net 15 days, unless otherwise arranged. Initial billing starts with the first full week following the connection completion, or three weeks from start of the installation, whichever comes latest. POSSIBLE TLG/MEMBER RESOURCE SHARING: Under certain conditions, TLG may be willing to pay for the leased line to the customer's site, and a portion of the connect fee, if TLG can install a new POP at the member's site. Depending on various factors, this could significantly lower the cost to the member for IP services. As more sites are connected to this new POP, the member housing the POP would receive a portion of each additional connection fee, effectively paying for bandwidth used. Contact information: The Little Garden PO Box 410923 San Francisco CA 94141-0923 415-487-1902 info@tlg.org gopher tlg.org Associated Networks: Santa Cruz -- Santa Cruz Community Internet (scruz-net) 903 Pacific Ave. #203-A Santa Cruz, CA 95060 (408) 457-5050 info@scruz.net Santa Cruz Community Internet serves the entirety of Santa Cruz County, CA. scruz-net offers the following TCP/IP services: o medium speed 56kb and 64kb o leased line and frame relay o ISDN and centrex IS service at 64kb or 128kb o 14.4kb leased line or 14.4kb centrex o 14.4kb dial-up SLIP and PPP scruz-net offers the following application services: o news and mail forwarding o DNS registration and nameservice o FTP archive and gopher server Marin, Sonoma, and Mendocino Counties -- North Bay Network 20 Minor Court San Rafael, CA 94903 (415) 472-1600 Email: info@nbn.com Oregon, southern Washington state -- RAINet 9501 SW Westhaven Portland, OR 97225 (503) 297-8820 admin@rain.com RAINet offers the following TCP/IP services: o medium speed 56kb and 64kb o leased line and frame relay o 14.4kb leased line o 14.4kb dial-up SLIP and PPP RAINet offers the following application services: o news and mail forwarding o DNS registration and nameservice o UNIX shell accounts o POP mail accounts and POP serial dialup o dialup and PPP/SLIP gopher clients When you are in RAINet's geographic area (Oregon and Southern Washington), RAINet offers free access to customers of other RGnet consortium networks, e.g. The Little Garden. From bali!siress@zebra.unix.portal.com Wed Jan 5 00:11:19 1994 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id AAA01068; Wed, 5 Jan 1994 00:11:17 -0800 Received: from portal.unix.portal.com (portal.unix.portal.com [156.151.1.100]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) with ESMTP id AAA09061 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 1994 00:12:17 -0800 Received: from zebra.unix.portal.com by portal.unix.portal.com (2.31) id AAA19891; Wed, 5 Jan 1994 00:12:16 -0800 Received: from bali.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by zebra.unix.portal.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) with UUCP id AAA08724 for admin@tlg.org; Wed, 5 Jan 1994 00:12:13 -0800 Received: from bali.UUCP by tidalwave.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02163; Wed, 5 Jan 94 00:03:02 PST Received: by bali.uucp (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04564; Tue, 4 Jan 94 23:50:16 PST Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 23:50:16 PST From: bali!siress@zebra.unix.portal.com (Tony Siress) Message-Id: <9401050750.AA04564@bali.uucp> To: admin@tlg.org Subject: Email access Status: O I was given your name by Roger Klorese, He said we should talk to you about moving our email server from Portal to The Little Garden. Our office is in San Francisco and we would be interested in getting a slip or ppp line onto the internet. Please send email back about who and when I should call. reply to tony@tidalwave.com. We have not setup or domain correctly something else we hope you can help us with. We are using Telebit T1000 and Qblazer modems. Sincerely, Tony Siress From redback!jimmc@eskimo.com Thu Jan 6 10:30:53 1994 Received: from eskimo.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA00585; Thu, 6 Jan 1994 10:30:45 -0800 Received: from redback.UUCP by eskimo.com (5.65c/1.35) id AA21452; Thu, 6 Jan 1994 10:30:39 -0800 Received: by redback. (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00470; Thu, 6 Jan 94 10:30:27 PST Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 10:30:27 PST From: redback!jimmc@eskimo.com (Jim McBeath) Message-Id: <9401061830.AA00470@redback.> To: info@tlg.org Subject: ISDN on TLG? Content-Length: 464 Status: O I have the TLG announcement from ba.internet, 23-Oct-93, in which you mention the possibility of ISDN service. I'm interested in either 64Kb (1B) or 128Kb (2B) ISDN service, and I'm trying to get an idea of how much it would cost. Do you have any ISDN connections yet? Any idea of what it might cost, for hardware, installation, and monthly fees? Also, what bandwidth of connection do you have to AlterNet? Thanks for the info. -Jim McBeath jimmc@eskimo.com From tomj Thu Jan 6 12:15:06 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA00729; Thu, 6 Jan 1994 12:15:00 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401062015.MAA00729@tlg.org> Subject: Re: in-addr for 140.174.106 To: tal@pss.com (Tom Lipkis) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 12:14:59 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401050044.AA00389@pss.com> from "Tom Lipkis" at Jan 4, 94 04:44:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 258 Status: O > in-addr lookups for 140.174.106 still don't work. I can't tell from nslookup Sorry! My fault. I forgot to have the authority pointed to tlg.org. It should be fixed today. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Thu Jan 6 12:28:05 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA00828; Thu, 6 Jan 1994 12:28:02 -0800 Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 12:28:02 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401062028.MAA00828@tlg.org> To: admin Status: O Started at Thu Jan 6 12:27:55 PST 1994 Filesystem 512-blks used avail capacity Mounted on /dev/wd0a 15726 13388 764 95% / kernfs 2 2 0 100% /kern /dev/wd0e 199470 133890 45632 75% //usr Connects: (logged to /etc/connect.log) Dec 27 16:02:56 tlg rlogind[3802]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 27 16:06:24 tlg rlogind[3836]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 27 17:02:09 tlg telnetd[3917]: connect from 199.4.65.1 Dec 27 18:11:23 tlg rshd[3958]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 27 18:13:24 tlg rshd[3969]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 27 18:16:25 tlg rshd[3991]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 27 18:26:14 tlg rshd[4024]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 27 18:26:17 tlg rshd[4031]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 27 18:26:18 tlg rshd[4038]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 27 18:26:20 tlg rshd[4044]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 27 18:26:36 tlg rshd[4057]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 27 18:27:47 tlg rshd[4067]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 27 18:34:58 tlg rshd[4168]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 27 18:38:55 tlg rshd[4235]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 27 19:45:37 tlg telnetd[4598]: connect from netcom.netcom.com Dec 27 23:07:57 tlg telnetd[4727]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 28 03:22:22 tlg telnetd[4891]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 28 11:26:10 tlg telnetd[5175]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 28 11:35:23 tlg rlogind[5183]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 28 11:38:24 tlg rlogind[5209]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 28 11:52:13 tlg telnetd[5234]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 28 13:10:41 fnord rlogind[76]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 28 13:10:46 fnord rlogind[82]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 28 15:09:04 fnord ftpd[184]: connect from hirai@gingko.cc.swarthmore.edu Dec 28 19:48:09 fnord rlogind[369]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 28 21:57:13 fnord telnetd[461]: connect from 199.4.65.2 Dec 28 23:04:46 fnord telnetd[506]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 28 23:17:25 fnord telnetd[543]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 28 23:17:54 fnord telnetd[556]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 29 08:41:50 fnord ftpd[924]: connect from remarque.Berkeley.EDU Dec 29 08:47:12 fnord telnetd[927]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 29 09:45:01 fnord ftpd[990]: connect from infonaut.com Dec 29 11:26:48 fnord ftpd[1060]: connect from cereal.bae.bellcore.com Dec 29 11:49:09 fnord rlogind[1080]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 29 11:56:43 fnord rshd[1111]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 29 11:59:01 fnord telnetd[1125]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 29 11:59:46 fnord rlogind[1127]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 29 12:35:18 fnord telnetd[1200]: connect from 199.4.65.1 Dec 29 15:03:42 fnord rshd[1292]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 29 15:04:04 fnord rshd[1301]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 29 15:06:11 fnord ftpd[1313]: connect from crl.com Dec 29 19:12:05 fnord rlogind[1486]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 29 19:15:57 fnord rlogind[1523]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 29 21:32:36 fnord ftpd[1667]: connect from dunk.ccit.duq.edu Dec 29 23:01:52 fnord ftpd[1722]: connect from 140.174.110.1 Dec 29 23:08:47 fnord telnetd[1733]: connect from dialup-1-14.gw.umn.edu Dec 29 23:09:17 fnord ftpd[1735]: connect from dialup-1-14.gw.umn.edu Dec 30 02:30:02 fnord ftpd[2140]: connect from bitftp.gmd.de Dec 30 02:31:47 fnord ftpd[2142]: connect from bitftp.gmd.de Dec 30 02:41:04 fnord ftpd[2159]: connect from kaiwan.kaiwan.com Dec 30 08:18:59 fnord telnetd[2408]: connect from moon.nbn.com Dec 30 09:33:43 fnord telnetd[124]: refused connect from 199.4.65.1 Dec 30 09:34:59 fnord telnetd[132]: connect from jharkin@well.sf.ca.us Dec 30 10:36:58 fnord rlogind[220]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 30 10:41:00 fnord telnetd[258]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 30 10:54:42 fnord rlogind[335]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 30 10:40:25 fnord telnetd[462]: refused connect from 199.4.65.1 Dec 30 10:42:29 fnord ftpd[490]: connect from netcom2.netcom.com Dec 30 11:00:37 fnord telnetd[776]: connect from nbn.nbn.com Dec 30 12:02:55 fnord telnetd[1620]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 30 12:44:26 fnord telnetd[1919]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 30 13:29:29 fnord telnetd[2104]: refused connect from 199.4.65.1 Dec 30 13:29:50 fnord telnetd[2105]: connect from nbn.nbn.com Dec 30 13:45:04 fnord ftpd[2146]: refused connect from 199.4.65.2 Dec 30 13:45:23 fnord ftpd[2147]: refused connect from 199.4.65.2 Dec 30 13:46:24 fnord ftpd[2148]: refused connect from 199.4.65.2 Dec 30 13:48:03 fnord telnetd[2149]: refused connect from 199.4.65.2 Dec 30 14:49:02 fnord telnetd[2225]: connect from nbn.nbn.com Dec 30 17:08:59 fnord telnetd[2356]: connect from timbo.lns.com Dec 30 17:13:43 fnord telnetd[2380]: connect from timbo.lns.com Dec 30 17:24:51 fnord ftpd[2451]: connect from timbo.lns.com Dec 30 17:38:44 fnord telnetd[2483]: connect from timbo.lns.com Dec 30 17:39:21 fnord telnetd[2485]: connect from timbo.lns.com Dec 30 17:39:34 fnord telnetd[2487]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 30 17:40:13 fnord rlogind[2489]: refused connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 30 17:40:22 fnord rlogind[2501]: refused connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 30 17:40:30 fnord telnetd[2513]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 30 17:41:26 fnord telnetd[2516]: connect from slip1.lns.com Dec 30 17:41:45 fnord rlogind[2518]: refused connect from slip1.lns.com Dec 30 17:42:19 fnord ftpd[2532]: connect from slip1.lns.com Dec 30 17:44:02 fnord telnetd[2536]: connect from timbo.lns.com Dec 30 17:51:31 fnord telnetd[2546]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 30 17:59:18 fnord telnetd[2582]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 30 18:09:42 fnord telnetd[2620]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 30 19:01:21 fnord ftpd[2723]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 30 19:14:20 fnord telnetd[2773]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 30 20:29:42 fnord telnetd[3203]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 30 20:47:13 fnord telnetd[3232]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 31 00:14:29 fnord rshd[3497]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 31 02:19:44 fnord telnetd[3706]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 31 02:25:48 fnord telnetd[3727]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 31 02:27:06 fnord telnetd[3746]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 31 02:27:35 fnord telnetd[3756]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 31 02:27:49 fnord telnetd[3761]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 31 02:29:23 fnord telnetd[3774]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 31 02:29:37 fnord telnetd[3776]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 31 02:29:43 fnord telnetd[3778]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 31 02:30:21 fnord telnetd[3780]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 31 02:30:34 fnord ftpd[3782]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 31 03:15:50 fnord telnetd[3870]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 31 03:16:10 fnord rlogind[3872]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 31 07:52:32 fnord telnetd[4043]: refused connect from 199.4.65.1 Dec 31 07:59:00 fnord telnetd[4049]: refused connect from 199.4.65.1 Dec 31 08:40:36 fnord telnetd[4083]: connect from nbn.nbn.com Dec 31 10:43:12 fnord telnetd[4176]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 31 10:53:59 fnord rlogind[4199]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 31 12:46:22 fnord telnetd[4329]: connect from fido.wps.com Dec 31 15:58:58 fnord telnetd[4589]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 31 16:00:48 fnord telnetd[4617]: connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 31 17:47:57 fnord rlogind[4801]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 00:49:57 fnord ftpd[5061]: connect from kithrup.com Jan 1 02:31:59 fnord ftpd[5127]: connect from dhesi@bolero.rahul.net Jan 1 04:52:17 fnord ftpd[5227]: connect from netcom4.netcom.com Jan 1 05:05:12 fnord ftpd[5244]: connect from netcom.netcom.com Jan 1 07:28:52 fnord ftpd[5350]: connect from netcom2.netcom.com Jan 1 09:35:39 fnord ftpd[5434]: connect from netcom3.netcom.com Jan 1 10:12:24 fnord ftpd[5462]: connect from netcom4.netcom.com Jan 1 10:26:27 fnord ftpd[5475]: connect from crl2.crl.com Jan 1 10:57:25 fnord ftpd[5497]: connect from saguaro.montage.com Jan 1 11:14:39 fnord ftpd[5531]: connect from netcom2.netcom.com Jan 1 11:24:08 fnord ftpd[5546]: connect from netcom4.netcom.com Jan 1 11:32:17 fnord telnetd[5549]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 1 13:51:04 fnord ftpd[5635]: connect from netcom2.netcom.com Jan 1 15:18:29 fnord ftpd[5699]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 15:18:39 fnord ftpd[5700]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 15:18:52 fnord ftpd[5701]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 15:20:24 fnord telnetd[5702]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 15:20:54 fnord ftpd[5714]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 15:25:01 fnord telnetd[5716]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 15:29:49 fnord ftpd[5731]: connect from netcom5.netcom.com Jan 1 15:49:54 fnord telnetd[5788]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 15:53:17 fnord telnetd[5816]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 16:02:00 fnord telnetd[5914]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 16:41:56 fnord ftpd[6000]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 16:42:22 fnord ftpd[6001]: connect from slip1.lns.com Jan 1 16:44:10 fnord ftpd[6009]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 17:03:10 fnord telnetd[6059]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 17:13:35 fnord ftpd[6097]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 17:13:53 fnord ftpd[6099]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 17:23:38 fnord telnetd[6107]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:24:02 fnord telnetd[6113]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:25:11 fnord telnetd[6117]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:25:16 fnord telnetd[6118]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:25:25 fnord ftpd[6119]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:25:36 fnord ftpd[6120]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:27:59 fnord ftpd[6128]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 17:30:14 fnord telnetd[6131]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:30:30 fnord telnetd[6132]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:32:15 fnord telnetd[6134]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:32:31 fnord telnetd[6135]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:32:36 fnord telnetd[6136]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:35:44 fnord telnetd[6137]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:36:19 fnord telnetd[6138]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 17:36:55 fnord telnetd[6139]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:37:19 fnord telnetd[6140]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:39:36 fnord telnetd[6141]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:39:53 fnord telnetd[6142]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:39:58 fnord telnetd[6143]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:40:03 fnord telnetd[6148]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:41:01 fnord telnetd[6149]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:41:24 fnord telnetd[6152]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:43:49 fnord telnetd[6153]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:49:38 fnord telnetd[6154]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 17:50:39 fnord telnetd[6155]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:51:17 fnord telnetd[6156]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 17:51:23 fnord telnetd[6157]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 18:21:03 fnord ftpd[6174]: connect from netcom2.netcom.com Jan 1 18:53:33 fnord telnetd[6205]: connect from sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu Jan 1 19:02:11 fnord telnetd[6230]: connect from sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu Jan 1 19:02:26 fnord ftpd[6231]: connect from sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu Jan 1 19:12:44 fnord telnetd[6251]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 1 19:22:38 fnord telnetd[6285]: connect from sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu Jan 1 19:24:49 fnord ftpd[6294]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 19:25:03 fnord ftpd[6296]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 20:02:47 fnord telnetd[6331]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 1 21:47:42 fnord ftpd[6429]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 2 06:49:02 fnord telnetd[90]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 2 06:52:29 fnord telnetd[116]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 2 09:35:50 fnord ftpd[253]: connect from netcom2.netcom.com Jan 2 10:04:29 fnord ftpd[286]: connect from netcom2.netcom.com Jan 2 11:14:55 fnord ftpd[322]: connect from netcom.netcom.com Jan 2 11:43:31 fnord ftpd[353]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 2 11:43:46 fnord ftpd[355]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 2 13:02:16 fnord rlogind[404]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 2 13:05:22 fnord rlogind[415]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 2 13:20:46 fnord ftpd[457]: connect from dave@dogwood.com Jan 2 14:12:00 fnord telnetd[497]: connect from nbn.nbn.com Jan 2 14:22:48 fnord ftpd[547]: connect from nckwan@cayley.uwaterloo.ca Jan 2 14:26:14 fnord telnetd[552]: connect from nbn.nbn.com Jan 2 14:27:00 fnord ftpd[555]: connect from jrg@bolero.rahul.net Jan 2 14:47:53 fnord ftpd[586]: connect from nckwan@cayley.uwaterloo.ca Jan 2 14:48:11 fnord ftpd[587]: connect from nckwan@cayley.uwaterloo.ca Jan 2 14:50:54 fnord ftpd[600]: connect from nckwan@cayley.uwaterloo.ca Jan 2 14:54:15 fnord ftpd[605]: refused connect from nckwan@129.97.140.49 Jan 2 14:54:19 fnord ftpd[606]: connect from nckwan@cayley.uwaterloo.ca Jan 2 14:54:30 fnord ftpd[607]: connect from nckwan@cayley.uwaterloo.ca Jan 2 15:20:32 fnord ftpd[654]: connect from netcom3.netcom.com Jan 2 16:39:32 fnord ftpd[709]: connect from hawkwind@bolero.rahul.net Jan 2 17:48:34 fnord ftpd[763]: refused connect from koreth@192.65.216.64 Jan 2 17:53:58 fnord telnetd[772]: connect from du139-213.cc.iastate.edu Jan 2 17:54:35 fnord ftpd[775]: connect from noc2.arc.nasa.gov Jan 2 18:23:49 fnord ftpd[802]: connect from soda.Berkeley.EDU Jan 2 18:52:39 fnord telnetd[828]: connect from remarque.Berkeley.EDU Jan 2 22:17:31 fnord ftpd[91]: connect from netcom3.netcom.com Jan 2 23:57:58 fnord telnetd[159]: connect from remarque.Berkeley.EDU Jan 3 00:40:32 fnord ftpd[189]: connect from cygnus.com Jan 3 06:37:16 fnord ftpd[440]: connect from hydra.acs.uci.edu Jan 3 09:11:09 fnord ftpd[535]: connect from netcom6.netcom.com Jan 3 10:07:01 fnord rlogind[567]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 3 10:08:28 fnord rlogind[584]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 3 10:49:17 fnord telnetd[698]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 3 11:34:35 fnord ftpd[810]: connect from beta.Xerox.COM Jan 3 11:34:43 fnord ftpd[811]: connect from nckwan@cayley.uwaterloo.ca Jan 3 11:34:55 fnord ftpd[812]: connect from beta.Xerox.COM Jan 3 11:35:17 fnord ftpd[814]: connect from nckwan@cayley.uwaterloo.ca Jan 3 11:37:40 fnord ftpd[816]: connect from cayley.uwaterloo.ca Jan 3 11:37:47 fnord ftpd[817]: connect from cygnus.com Jan 3 11:41:18 fnord ftpd[827]: connect from cygnus.com Jan 3 12:01:32 fnord telnetd[877]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 3 12:10:43 fnord telnetd[907]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 3 12:25:00 fnord telnetd[960]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 3 13:52:05 fnord telnetd[1114]: connect from jharkin@well.sf.ca.us Jan 3 13:53:37 fnord telnetd[1120]: connect from jharkin@well.sf.ca.us Jan 3 14:49:16 fnord rlogind[1169]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 3 15:10:58 fnord telnetd[1401]: connect from umbra.space.lockheed.com Jan 3 15:11:17 fnord ftpd[1403]: connect from umbra.space.lockheed.com Jan 3 15:51:27 fnord ftpd[1484]: connect from objygate.objy.com Jan 3 16:25:48 fnord ftpd[1512]: connect from objygate.objy.com Jan 3 17:04:37 fnord telnetd[1562]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 3 17:05:36 fnord telnetd[1564]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 3 17:39:23 fnord rshd[1723]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 3 17:44:08 fnord rshd[1733]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 3 17:47:50 fnord rshd[1749]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 3 18:49:45 fnord ftpd[1802]: connect from HAL.COM Jan 3 20:30:39 fnord ftpd[1865]: connect from crl.com Jan 3 20:33:14 fnord ftpd[1869]: connect from crl.com Jan 3 20:45:35 fnord telnetd[1883]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 3 21:50:21 fnord telnetd[1944]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 3 22:00:24 fnord ftpd[1977]: connect from edge.twig.com Jan 3 22:00:44 fnord ftpd[1980]: connect from edge.twig.com Jan 3 22:01:28 fnord ftpd[1981]: connect from edge.twig.com Jan 4 00:05:01 fnord ftpd[2135]: connect from net.bio.net Jan 4 00:05:12 fnord ftpd[2136]: connect from net.bio.net Jan 4 00:05:25 fnord ftpd[2137]: connect from net.bio.net Jan 4 00:23:02 fnord telnetd[2157]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 4 14:04:34 fnord rlogind[99]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 4 14:05:18 fnord rlogind[127]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 4 14:30:24 fnord telnetd[366]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 4 15:47:48 fnord ftpd[513]: connect from slip1.lns.com Jan 4 15:47:58 fnord ftpd[514]: connect from slip1.lns.com Jan 4 17:22:12 fnord rlogind[596]: connect from slip1.lns.com Jan 4 18:59:03 fnord ftpd[711]: connect from davidf@maelstrom-ether.Berkeley.EDU Jan 4 19:01:26 fnord telnetd[725]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 4 19:35:11 fnord ftpd[777]: connect from kip-24.taligent.com Jan 4 19:35:35 fnord ftpd[779]: connect from kip-24.taligent.com Jan 4 22:30:43 fnord ftpd[910]: connect from deeptht.armory.com Jan 4 22:52:51 fnord telnetd[946]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 4 22:59:55 fnord ftpd[968]: connect from cave.arc.nasa.gov Jan 4 23:11:09 fnord ftpd[984]: connect from netcom3.netcom.com Jan 5 00:06:02 fnord telnetd[1051]: connect from moon.nbn.com Jan 5 00:08:02 fnord telnetd[1056]: connect from moon.nbn.com Jan 5 00:12:44 fnord telnetd[1081]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 5 00:13:06 fnord ftpd[1083]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 5 00:13:52 fnord telnetd[1085]: connect from timbo.lns.com Jan 5 00:14:35 fnord telnetd[1088]: connect from slip1.lns.com Jan 5 00:18:12 fnord telnetd[1113]: connect from moon.nbn.com Jan 5 00:18:38 fnord telnetd[1115]: connect from moon.nbn.com Jan 5 00:18:55 fnord telnetd[1118]: connect from moon.nbn.com Jan 5 00:19:17 fnord telnetd[1125]: connect from moon.nbn.com Jan 5 00:19:45 fnord telnetd[1127]: connect from moon.nbn.com Jan 5 01:16:30 fnord telnetd[1219]: connect from moon.nbn.com Jan 5 01:17:49 fnord telnetd[1230]: refused connect from 199.4.64.17 Jan 5 01:17:58 fnord telnetd[1231]: refused connect from 199.4.64.17 Jan 5 04:11:30 fnord telnetd[1369]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 5 04:11:46 fnord telnetd[1371]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 5 09:50:27 fnord ftpd[1611]: connect from netcom2.netcom.com Jan 5 10:31:58 fnord ftpd[1636]: connect from slip1.lns.com Jan 5 10:32:10 fnord ftpd[1637]: connect from slip1.lns.com Jan 5 10:40:05 fnord rlogind[1645]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 5 11:23:25 fnord rlogind[1710]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 5 13:04:58 fnord telnetd[1842]: connect from Sun.COM Jan 5 13:39:49 fnord telnetd[1877]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 5 14:31:25 fnord ftpd[1912]: connect from Sun.COM Jan 5 15:06:15 fnord ftpd[1933]: connect from 134.9.48.6 Jan 5 15:09:15 fnord telnetd[1935]: connect from nbn.nbn.com Jan 5 15:09:54 fnord telnetd[1937]: connect from jharkin@nkosi.well.sf.ca.us Jan 5 15:47:17 fnord ftpd[1972]: connect from phoenix.ocf.llnl.gov Jan 5 18:22:15 fnord ftpd[2079]: connect from trc3.cisco.com Jan 5 20:09:44 fnord telnetd[2159]: connect from moon.nbn.com Jan 5 21:06:02 fnord ftpd[2199]: connect from netcom4.netcom.com Jan 5 21:43:57 fnord telnetd[2216]: connect from 140.174.66.35 Jan 5 23:19:19 fnord telnetd[2272]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 5 23:26:45 fnord telnetd[2284]: connect from slip0.lns.com Jan 5 23:30:16 fnord telnetd[87]: connect from kumr.lns.com Jan 6 06:45:06 fnord ftpd[424]: connect from unpc.queernet.org Jan 6 09:07:18 fnord ftpd[521]: connect from Sun.COM Jan 6 10:15:37 fnord telnetd[563]: connect from eskimo.com Jan 6 10:17:32 fnord ftpd[565]: connect from eskimo.com Jan 6 10:18:17 fnord ftpd[566]: connect from eskimo.com Jan 6 11:02:50 fnord rlogind[614]: connect from fido.wps.com Jan 6 11:03:11 fnord rlogind[625]: connect from fido.wps.com Authlog errors, etc Dec 27 16:06:35 tlg su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 27 18:11:25 tlg rshd[3963]: ROOT shell from root@fido.wps.com, comm: ls Dec 27 18:13:26 tlg rshd[3976]: ROOT shell from root@fido.wps.com, comm: ( echo fido.wps.com root > .rhosts ; chmod 600 .rhosts ) Dec 27 18:13:40 tlg su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 27 18:16:27 tlg rshd[3996]: ROOT shell from root@fido.wps.com, comm: rm .rhosts Dec 27 18:17:51 tlg su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 27 18:27:47 tlg rshd[4067]: ROOT shell from root@fido.wps.com, comm: rcp -r -f /tlg Dec 27 18:35:01 tlg rshd[4168]: ROOT shell from root@fido.wps.com, comm: rcp -r -f /etc Dec 27 18:38:57 tlg rshd[4235]: ROOT shell from root@fido.wps.com, comm: rcp -r -f /usr/home Dec 28 11:39:01 tlg su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 28 13:11:26 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp0 Dec 29 08:48:12 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp0 Dec 29 11:49:20 fnord su: BAD SU tomj to root on /dev/ttyp0 Dec 29 11:52:41 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp0 Dec 29 11:56:44 fnord rshd[1111]: ROOT shell from root@fido.wps.com, comm: rcp -f /tlg/named/tlg.org Dec 29 15:04:04 fnord rshd[1301]: ROOT shell from root@fido.wps.com, comm: rcp -r -f /tlg/biz Dec 29 19:16:05 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 29 23:09:39 fnord login: 1 LOGIN FAILURE FROM dialup-1-14.gw.umn.edu Dec 30 09:33:43 fnord telnetd[124]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(nbn.com) failed Dec 30 10:39:23 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp0 Dec 30 10:43:06 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 30 10:51:18 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp0 Dec 30 11:01:42 fnord su: BAD SU pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 30 11:01:47 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 30 10:40:25 fnord telnetd[462]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(nbn.com) failed Dec 30 10:48:14 fnord su: BAD SU tomj to root on /dev/ttyp0 Dec 30 10:48:34 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 30 11:26:19 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 30 12:14:23 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 30 12:16:31 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 30 12:56:11 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 30 13:18:04 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 30 13:29:29 fnord telnetd[2104]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(nbn.com) failed Dec 30 13:45:04 fnord ftpd[2146]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(filigree.nbn.com) failed Dec 30 13:45:23 fnord ftpd[2147]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(filigree.nbn.com) failed Dec 30 13:46:24 fnord ftpd[2148]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(filigree.nbn.com) failed Dec 30 13:48:03 fnord telnetd[2149]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(filigree.nbn.com) failed Dec 30 17:53:34 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 30 19:14:37 fnord su: BAD SU pozar to root on /dev/ttyp3 Dec 30 19:14:42 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp3 Dec 31 00:07:41 fnord su: BAD SU tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 31 00:07:51 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 31 00:14:31 fnord rshd[3497]: ROOT shell from root@fido.wps.com, comm: rcp -t /tlg/named Dec 31 00:18:24 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 31 00:19:07 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 31 00:20:17 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 31 00:23:49 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 31 07:52:32 fnord telnetd[4043]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(nbn.com) failed Dec 31 07:59:00 fnord telnetd[4049]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(nbn.com) failed Dec 31 10:53:49 fnord su: BAD SU pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 31 14:25:26 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 31 15:57:43 fnord su: BAD SU pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 31 15:57:48 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 31 15:59:18 fnord su: BAD SU pozar to root on /dev/ttyp3 Dec 31 15:59:24 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp3 Dec 31 16:13:22 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 31 16:32:36 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 31 17:10:37 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 31 17:14:02 fnord last message repeated 2 times Jan 1 15:46:37 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp3 Jan 1 15:50:16 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Jan 1 16:06:55 fnord su: BAD SU pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Jan 1 16:07:01 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Jan 1 19:15:21 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp3 Jan 1 19:22:47 fnord login: 1 LOGIN FAILURE FROM sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu Jan 1 19:27:24 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp3 Jan 1 20:03:06 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Jan 2 06:52:42 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Jan 2 07:27:06 fnord su: BAD SU pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Jan 2 07:27:11 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Jan 2 13:09:43 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Jan 2 14:54:15 fnord ftpd[605]: warning: host name/address mismatch: 129.97.140.49 != cayley.uwaterloo.ca Jan 2 14:56:07 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/console Jan 2 17:48:34 fnord ftpd[763]: warning: host name/address mismatch: 192.65.216.64 != gerbilmeister.Hyperion.COM Jan 2 18:53:17 fnord su: BAD SU grossman to root on /dev/ttyp3 Jan 2 18:53:26 fnord su: BAD SU grossman to root on /dev/ttyp3 Jan 2 22:18:01 fnord login: LOGIN root REFUSED ON TTY console Jan 3 11:43:56 fnord su: grossman to root on /dev/console Jan 3 13:37:45 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/console Jan 3 15:15:57 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp1 Jan 3 17:39:25 fnord rshd[1723]: ROOT shell from root@fido.wps.com, comm: rcp -r -f /tlg Jan 3 17:44:09 fnord rshd[1733]: ROOT shell from root@fido.wps.com, comm: rcp -r -f /etc Jan 3 17:47:51 fnord rshd[1749]: ROOT shell from root@fido.wps.com, comm: rcp -r -f /usr/home Jan 4 00:12:40 fnord su: grossman to root on /dev/console Jan 4 00:27:47 fnord reboot: rebooted by grossman Jan 4 23:43:43 fnord su: grossman to root on /dev/console Jan 5 01:17:49 fnord telnetd[1230]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(gw-srf.nbn.com) failed Jan 5 01:17:58 fnord telnetd[1231]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(gw-srf.nbn.com) failed Jan 6 11:03:22 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp1 who /var/log/wtmp ttyp0 Dec 27 15:08 ttyp1 Dec 27 15:08 tomj ttyp0 Dec 27 16:02 (fido.wps.com) tomj ttyp1 Dec 27 16:06 (fido.wps.com) john ttyp2 Dec 27 17:02 (199.4.65.1) ttyp0 Dec 27 20:04 ttyp1 Dec 27 20:04 ttyp2 Dec 27 20:36 flesh ttyp0 Dec 27 23:08 (fido.wps.com) ttyp0 Dec 27 23:11 flesh ttyp0 Dec 28 03:22 (fido.wps.com) ttyp0 Dec 28 03:22 flesh ttyp0 Dec 28 11:26 (fido.wps.com) ttyp0 Dec 28 11:29 tomj ttyp0 Dec 28 11:35 (fido.wps.com) tomj ttyp1 Dec 28 11:38 (fido.wps.com) flesh ttyp2 Dec 28 11:52 (fido.wps.com) ttyp2 Dec 28 11:56 reboot ~ Dec 28 13:10 tomj ttyp0 Dec 28 13:10 (fido.wps.com) tomj ttyp1 Dec 28 13:10 (fido.wps.com) ttyp1 Dec 28 15:01 ttyp0 Dec 28 15:02 ftp ftp184 Dec 28 15:09 (gingko.cc.swarth) ftp184 Dec 28 15:13 tomj console Dec 28 18:35 console Dec 28 18:46 tomj ttyp0 Dec 28 19:48 (fido.wps.com) ttyp0 Dec 28 21:42 john ttyp0 Dec 28 21:57 (199.4.65.2) ttyp0 Dec 28 21:58 pozar ttyp0 Dec 28 23:07 (kumr.lns.com) ttyp0 Dec 28 23:17 pozar ttyp0 Dec 28 23:17 (kumr.lns.com) ttyp0 Dec 28 23:17 pozar ttyp0 Dec 28 23:17 (kumr.lns.com) ttyp0 Dec 28 23:20 ftp ftp924 Dec 29 08:41 (remarque.Berkele) ftp924 Dec 29 08:42 pozar ttyp0 Dec 29 08:47 (kumr.lns.com) ttyp0 Dec 29 08:50 ftp ftp990 Dec 29 09:45 (infonaut.com) ftp990 Dec 29 09:45 ftp ftp1060 Dec 29 11:26 (cereal.bae.bellc) ftp1060 Dec 29 11:28 tomj ttyp0 Dec 29 11:49 (fido.wps.com) tomj ttyp1 Dec 29 11:59 (fido.wps.com) john ttyp2 Dec 29 12:35 (199.4.65.1) ttyp2 Dec 29 12:59 ftp ftp1313 Dec 29 15:06 (crl.com) ftp1313 Dec 29 15:08 ttyp0 Dec 29 18:57 ttyp1 Dec 29 18:57 tomj ttyp0 Dec 29 19:12 (fido.wps.com) tomj ttyp1 Dec 29 19:15 (fido.wps.com) ftp ftp1667 Dec 29 21:32 (dunk.ccit.duq.ed) ftp1667 Dec 29 21:35 ftp ftp1722 Dec 29 23:01 (140.174.110.1) ftp1722 Dec 29 23:03 ftp ftp1735 Dec 29 23:09 (dialup-1-14.gw.u) ftp1735 Dec 29 23:10 ttyp0 Dec 30 02:13 ftp ftp2140 Dec 30 02:30 (bitftp.gmd.de) ftp2140 Dec 30 02:30 ftp ftp2142 Dec 30 02:31 (bitftp.gmd.de) ftp2142 Dec 30 02:31 ftp ftp2159 Dec 30 02:41 (kaiwan.kaiwan.co) ftp2159 Dec 30 02:41 ttyp1 Dec 30 04:10 john ttyp0 Dec 30 08:19 (moon.nbn.com) reboot ~ Dec 30 08:22 john ttyp0 Dec 30 09:35 (well.sf.ca.us) ttyp0 Dec 30 09:51 tomj ttyp0 Dec 30 10:36 (fido.wps.com) pozar ttyp1 Dec 30 10:41 (kumr.lns.com) tomj ttyp2 Dec 30 10:54 (fido.wps.com) ftp ftp490 Dec 30 10:42 (netcom2.netcom.c) ftp490 Dec 30 10:43 john ttyp3 Dec 30 11:00 (nbn.nbn.com) ttyp3 Dec 30 11:08 ttyp1 Dec 30 11:36 flesh ttyp1 Dec 30 12:03 (fido.wps.com) ttyp1 Dec 30 12:44 flesh ttyp1 Dec 30 12:44 (fido.wps.com) ttyp1 Dec 30 12:49 john ttyp1 Dec 30 13:30 (nbn.nbn.com) ttyp1 Dec 30 13:51 john ttyp1 Dec 30 14:49 (nbn.nbn.com) ttyp1 Dec 30 14:50 pozar ttyp1 Dec 30 17:09 (timbo.lns.com) ttyp1 Dec 30 17:13 pozar ttyp1 Dec 30 17:13 (timbo.lns.com) pozar ftp2451 Dec 30 17:24 (timbo.lns.com) ftp2451 Dec 30 17:26 ttyp1 Dec 30 17:38 pozar ftp2532 Dec 30 17:42 (slip1.lns.com) ftp2532 Dec 30 17:42 flesh ttyp1 Dec 30 17:51 (fido.wps.com) pozar ttyp3 Dec 30 17:59 (kumr.lns.com) ttyp1 Dec 30 18:04 pozar ttyp1 Dec 30 18:09 (kumr.lns.com) ttyp3 Dec 30 18:18 pozar ftp2723 Dec 30 19:01 (kumr.lns.com) ftp2723 Dec 30 19:01 pozar ttyp3 Dec 30 19:14 (kumr.lns.com) ttyp3 Dec 30 19:17 ttyp1 Dec 30 19:56 pozar ttyp1 Dec 30 20:29 (kumr.lns.com) flesh ttyp3 Dec 30 20:47 (fido.wps.com) ttyp1 Dec 30 21:11 ttyp3 Dec 30 23:01 pozar ttyp1 Dec 31 02:20 (kumr.lns.com) pozar ttyp3 Dec 31 02:25 (kumr.lns.com) ttyp1 Dec 31 02:27 ttyp3 Dec 31 02:27 pozar ttyp3 Dec 31 02:27 (kumr.lns.com) pozar ftp3782 Dec 31 02:30 (kumr.lns.com) ftp3782 Dec 31 02:37 ttyp3 Dec 31 03:15 pozar ttyp1 Dec 31 03:16 (kumr.lns.com) john ttyp3 Dec 31 08:40 (nbn.nbn.com) ttyp3 Dec 31 08:44 flesh ttyp3 Dec 31 10:43 (fido.wps.com) ttyp3 Dec 31 10:43 ttyp1 Dec 31 10:53 pozar ttyp1 Dec 31 10:54 (kumr.lns.com) flesh ttyp3 Dec 31 12:46 (fido.wps.com) ttyp3 Dec 31 13:10 pozar ttyp3 Dec 31 15:59 (kumr.lns.com) pozar ttyp1 Dec 31 16:00 ttyp3 Dec 31 16:00 pozar ttyp3 Dec 31 16:00 (kumr.lns.com) ttyp3 Dec 31 16:00 ttyp1 Dec 31 17:47 pozar ttyp1 Dec 31 17:48 (kumr.lns.com) ftp ftp5061 Jan 1 00:49 (kithrup.com) ftp5061 Jan 1 01:05 ftp ftp5127 Jan 1 02:32 (bolero.rahul.net) ftp5127 Jan 1 02:41 ftp ftp5227 Jan 1 04:52 (netcom4.netcom.c) ftp5227 Jan 1 04:52 ftp ftp5244 Jan 1 05:05 (netcom.netcom.co) ftp5244 Jan 1 05:05 ftp ftp5350 Jan 1 07:28 (netcom2.netcom.c) ftp5350 Jan 1 07:32 ftp ftp5434 Jan 1 09:35 (netcom3.netcom.c) ftp5434 Jan 1 09:48 ftp ftp5462 Jan 1 10:12 (netcom4.netcom.c) ftp5462 Jan 1 10:14 ftp ftp5475 Jan 1 10:26 (crl2.crl.com) ftp5475 Jan 1 10:28 ftp ftp5497 Jan 1 10:57 (saguaro.montage.) ftp5497 Jan 1 10:59 ftp ftp5531 Jan 1 11:14 (netcom2.netcom.c) ftp5531 Jan 1 11:16 ftp ftp5546 Jan 1 11:24 (netcom4.netcom.c) flesh ttyp3 Jan 1 11:32 (fido.wps.com) ttyp3 Jan 1 11:34 ftp5546 Jan 1 11:34 ftp ftp5635 Jan 1 13:51 (netcom2.netcom.c) ftp5635 Jan 1 13:51 pozar ttyp3 Jan 1 15:20 (kumr.lns.com) ttyp3 Jan 1 15:20 pozar ttyp3 Jan 1 15:26 (timbo.lns.com) ftp ftp5731 Jan 1 15:29 (netcom5.netcom.c) ftp5731 Jan 1 15:31 ttyp1 Jan 1 15:49 pozar ttyp1 Jan 1 15:50 (timbo.lns.com) ttyp3 Jan 1 15:53 pozar ttyp3 Jan 1 15:53 (timbo.lns.com) ttyp1 Jan 1 16:01 pozar ttyp1 Jan 1 16:02 (timbo.lns.com) ftp ftp6000 Jan 1 16:41 (timbo.lns.com) ftp ftp6001 Jan 1 16:42 (slip1.lns.com) ftp ftp6009 Jan 1 16:44 (timbo.lns.com) ftp6009 Jan 1 16:44 ftp6001 Jan 1 16:52 ftp6000 Jan 1 16:57 ttyp3 Jan 1 17:03 pozar ttyp3 Jan 1 17:03 (timbo.lns.com) ftp ftp6097 Jan 1 17:13 (timbo.lns.com) ftp6097 Jan 1 17:13 ftp ftp6099 Jan 1 17:13 (timbo.lns.com) ftp ftp6120 Jan 1 17:25 (kumr.lns.com) ftp6120 Jan 1 17:25 ftp ftp6128 Jan 1 17:28 (timbo.lns.com) ftp6128 Jan 1 17:28 ftp6099 Jan 1 17:28 ftp ftp6174 Jan 1 18:21 (netcom2.netcom.c) ftp6174 Jan 1 18:22 ftp ftp6231 Jan 1 19:02 (sfsuvax1.sfsu.ed) ttyp3 Jan 1 19:08 pozar ttyp3 Jan 1 19:14 (kumr.lns.com) ftp6231 Jan 1 19:17 ttyp1 Jan 1 19:22 ftp ftp6294 Jan 1 19:24 (timbo.lns.com) ftp6294 Jan 1 19:24 ftp ftp6296 Jan 1 19:25 (timbo.lns.com) ftp6296 Jan 1 19:25 pozar ttyp1 Jan 1 20:02 (timbo.lns.com) ftp ftp6429 Jan 1 21:47 (fido.wps.com) ftp6429 Jan 1 21:47 reboot ~ Jan 2 06:46 pozar ttyp0 Jan 2 06:49 (kumr.lns.com) pozar ttyp1 Jan 2 06:52 (timbo.lns.com) ttyp1 Jan 2 07:28 ftp ftp253 Jan 2 09:35 (netcom2.netcom.c) ftp253 Jan 2 09:51 ftp ftp286 Jan 2 10:04 (netcom2.netcom.c) ftp286 Jan 2 10:21 ftp ftp322 Jan 2 11:14 (netcom.netcom.co) ftp322 Jan 2 11:16 ftp ftp353 Jan 2 11:43 (timbo.lns.com) ftp353 Jan 2 11:43 ftp ftp355 Jan 2 11:43 (timbo.lns.com) ftp355 Jan 2 11:44 tomj ttyp1 Jan 2 13:02 (fido.wps.com) tomj ttyp2 Jan 2 13:05 (fido.wps.com) ftp ftp457 Jan 2 13:20 (dogwood.com) ftp457 Jan 2 13:20 john ttyp3 Jan 2 14:12 (nbn.nbn.com) tomj console Jan 2 14:15 ttyp3 Jan 2 14:21 ftp ftp547 Jan 2 14:22 (cayley.uwaterloo) ftp547 Jan 2 14:24 john ttyp3 Jan 2 14:26 (nbn.nbn.com) ftp ftp555 Jan 2 14:27 (bolero.rahul.net) ftp555 Jan 2 14:29 ttyp3 Jan 2 14:32 ftp ftp586 Jan 2 14:47 (cayley.uwaterloo) ftp586 Jan 2 14:48 ftp ftp587 Jan 2 14:48 (cayley.uwaterloo) ftp587 Jan 2 14:50 ftp ftp600 Jan 2 14:50 (cayley.uwaterloo) ftp600 Jan 2 14:54 ftp ftp606 Jan 2 14:54 (cayley.uwaterloo) ftp606 Jan 2 14:54 ftp ftp607 Jan 2 14:54 (cayley.uwaterloo) console Jan 2 14:59 ftp607 Jan 2 15:09 ftp ftp654 Jan 2 15:20 (netcom3.netcom.c) ftp654 Jan 2 15:23 ftp ftp709 Jan 2 16:39 (bolero.rahul.net) ftp709 Jan 2 16:45 ftp ftp775 Jan 2 17:54 (noc2.arc.nasa.go) ftp775 Jan 2 17:54 ftp ftp802 Jan 2 18:23 (soda.Berkeley.ED) ftp802 Jan 2 18:23 grossman ttyp3 Jan 2 18:52 (remarque.Berkele) reboot ~ Jan 2 22:17 ftp ftp91 Jan 2 22:17 (netcom3.netcom.c) grossman console Jan 2 22:17 console Jan 2 22:17 ftp91 Jan 2 22:18 grossman console Jan 2 22:28 reboot ~ Jan 2 22:31 grossman ttyp0 Jan 2 23:58 (remarque.Berkele) ttyp0 Jan 3 00:10 grossman ftp189 Jan 3 00:40 (cygnus.com) ftp189 Jan 3 00:40 ftp ftp440 Jan 3 06:37 (hydra.acs.uci.ed) ftp440 Jan 3 06:39 ftp ftp535 Jan 3 09:11 (netcom6.netcom.c) ftp535 Jan 3 09:12 tomj ttyp0 Jan 3 10:07 (fido.wps.com) tomj ttyp1 Jan 3 10:08 (fido.wps.com) pozar ttyp2 Jan 3 10:49 (kumr.lns.com) grossman console Jan 3 11:17 ftp ftp810 Jan 3 11:34 (beta.Xerox.COM) ftp810 Jan 3 11:34 ftp ftp811 Jan 3 11:34 (cayley.uwaterloo) ftp ftp812 Jan 3 11:34 (beta.Xerox.COM) ftp811 Jan 3 11:35 ftp ftp814 Jan 3 11:35 (cayley.uwaterloo) ftp814 Jan 3 11:36 ftp ftp817 Jan 3 11:37 (cygnus.com) ftp ftp816 Jan 3 11:37 (cayley.uwaterloo) ftp817 Jan 3 11:38 ftp ftp827 Jan 3 11:41 (cygnus.com) ftp827 Jan 3 11:41 ftp812 Jan 3 11:49 ftp816 Jan 3 11:55 flesh ttyp3 Jan 3 12:01 (fido.wps.com) ttyp3 Jan 3 12:03 flesh ttyp3 Jan 3 12:10 (fido.wps.com) ttyp3 Jan 3 12:24 flesh ttyp3 Jan 3 12:25 (fido.wps.com) ttyp3 Jan 3 12:26 ttyp0 Jan 3 12:56 ttyp2 Jan 3 12:58 console Jan 3 13:36 tomj console Jan 3 13:37 console Jan 3 13:44 grossman console Jan 3 13:45 john ttyp0 Jan 3 13:52 (well.sf.ca.us) ttyp0 Jan 3 13:52 john ttyp0 Jan 3 13:53 (well.sf.ca.us) console Jan 3 13:55 ttyp0 Jan 3 13:55 tomj ttyp0 Jan 3 14:49 (fido.wps.com) ftp ftp1403 Jan 3 15:11 (umbra.space.lock) ftp1403 Jan 3 15:18 ftp ftp1484 Jan 3 15:51 (objygate.objy.co) ftp1484 Jan 3 15:55 ftp ftp1512 Jan 3 16:25 (objygate.objy.co) ftp1512 Jan 3 16:26 pozar ttyp3 Jan 3 17:05 (timbo.lns.com) ftp ftp1802 Jan 3 18:49 (HAL.COM) ftp1802 Jan 3 18:49 ftp ftp1865 Jan 3 20:30 (crl.com) ftp ftp1869 Jan 3 20:33 (crl.com) ftp1869 Jan 3 20:35 flesh ttyp2 Jan 3 20:45 (fido.wps.com) ftp1865 Jan 3 20:47 ttyp2 Jan 3 20:53 flesh ttyp2 Jan 3 21:50 (fido.wps.com) ftp ftp1977 Jan 3 22:00 (edge.twig.com) ftp1977 Jan 3 22:00 ftp ftp1980 Jan 3 22:00 (edge.twig.com) ftp1980 Jan 3 22:00 ftp ftp1981 Jan 3 22:01 (edge.twig.com) ftp1981 Jan 3 22:01 ttyp2 Jan 3 22:18 ftp ftp2135 Jan 4 00:05 (net.bio.net) ftp2135 Jan 4 00:05 ftp ftp2136 Jan 4 00:05 (net.bio.net) ftp2136 Jan 4 00:05 ftp ftp2137 Jan 4 00:05 (net.bio.net) ftp2137 Jan 4 00:09 grossman console Jan 4 00:12 flesh ttyp2 Jan 4 00:23 (fido.wps.com) console Jan 4 00:27 shutdown ~ Jan 4 00:27 reboot ~ Jan 4 00:54 grossman console Jan 4 00:30 Dec 31 16:00 reboot ~ Jan 4 14:29 pozar console Jan 4 14:04 tomj ttyp0 Jan 4 14:04 (fido.wps.com) tomj ttyp1 Jan 4 14:05 (fido.wps.com) console Jan 4 14:25 flesh ttyp2 Jan 4 14:30 (fido.wps.com) ttyp2 Jan 4 14:33 ftp ftp513 Jan 4 15:47 (slip1.lns.com) ftp513 Jan 4 15:47 ftp ftp514 Jan 4 15:48 (slip1.lns.com) ftp514 Jan 4 16:03 pozar ttyp2 Jan 4 17:22 (slip1.lns.com) ttyp2 Jan 4 17:30 ftp ftp711 Jan 4 18:59 (maelstrom-ether.) ftp711 Jan 4 18:59 pozar ttyp2 Jan 4 19:01 (timbo.lns.com) ttyp2 Jan 4 19:15 ftp ftp777 Jan 4 19:35 (kip-24.taligent.) ftp777 Jan 4 19:35 ftp ftp779 Jan 4 19:35 (kip-24.taligent.) ftp779 Jan 4 19:35 ftp ftp910 Jan 4 22:31 (deeptht.armory.c) ftp910 Jan 4 22:33 flesh ttyp2 Jan 4 22:53 (fido.wps.com) ttyp2 Jan 4 22:59 ftp ftp968 Jan 4 23:00 (cave.arc.nasa.go) ftp968 Jan 4 23:01 ftp ftp984 Jan 4 23:11 (netcom3.netcom.c) ftp984 Jan 4 23:12 grossman console Jan 4 23:43 john ttyp2 Jan 5 00:06 (moon.nbn.com) john ttyp3 Jan 5 00:08 (moon.nbn.com) ttyp2 Jan 5 00:08 ttyp3 Jan 5 00:09 pozar ttyp3 Jan 5 00:14 (slip1.lns.com) ttyp3 Jan 5 00:19 ttyp1 Jan 5 00:28 ttyp0 Jan 5 00:28 console Jan 5 00:49 ftp ftp1611 Jan 5 09:50 (netcom2.netcom.c) ftp1611 Jan 5 09:51 ftp ftp1636 Jan 5 10:31 (slip1.lns.com) ftp1636 Jan 5 10:32 ftp ftp1637 Jan 5 10:32 (slip1.lns.com) tomj ttyp0 Jan 5 10:40 (fido.wps.com) ftp1637 Jan 5 10:47 tomj ttyp1 Jan 5 11:23 (fido.wps.com) ftp ftp1912 Jan 5 14:31 (Sun.COM) ftp1912 Jan 5 14:35 ftp ftp1933 Jan 5 15:06 (phoenix.ocf.llnl) ftp1933 Jan 5 15:06 ftp ftp1972 Jan 5 15:47 (phoenix.ocf.llnl) ftp1972 Jan 5 16:02 ftp ftp2079 Jan 5 18:22 (trc3.cisco.com) ftp2079 Jan 5 18:23 ftp ftp2199 Jan 5 21:06 (netcom4.netcom.c) ftp2199 Jan 5 21:07 pozar ttyp2 Jan 5 23:27 (slip0.lns.com) reboot ~ Jan 5 23:54 pozar ttyp0 Jan 5 23:30 (kumr.lns.com) ttyp0 Jan 5 23:34 ftp ftp424 Jan 6 06:45 (unpc.queernet.or) ftp424 Jan 6 06:49 ftp ftp521 Jan 6 09:07 (Sun.COM) ftp521 Jan 6 09:08 ftp ftp566 Jan 6 10:18 (eskimo.com) ftp566 Jan 6 10:21 tomj ttyp0 Jan 6 11:02 (fido.wps.com) tomj ttyp1 Jan 6 11:03 (fido.wps.com) Contents of messages (filtered) : Dec 27 03:39:00 tlg named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone garage.com unreachable Dec 27 12:31:47 tlg named[48]: reloading nameserver Dec 27 12:32:04 tlg named[48]: reloading nameserver Dec 27 12:45:19 tlg named[48]: reloading nameserver Dec 27 12:45:20 tlg named[48]: fnord.tlg.org has CNAME and other data (illegal) Dec 27 13:32:53 tlg named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone ah.com unreachable Dec 27 16:06:35 tlg su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 27 16:11:24 tlg named[48]: reloading nameserver Dec 27 16:44:01 tlg named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone dsnet.com unreachable Dec 27 18:13:40 tlg su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 27 18:17:51 tlg su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 27 21:08:03 tlg named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone wsrcc.com unreachable Dec 28 06:21:58 tlg named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone queernet.org unreachable Dec 28 11:39:01 tlg su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 28 13:10:02 fnord /netbsd: NetBSD 0.9 (GENERICAHA) #17: Wed Aug 25 20:01:15 PDT 1993 Dec 28 13:10:02 fnord /netbsd: cgd@sun-lamp.cs.berkeley.edu:/e/users/cgd/trees/0.9-kernel/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERICAHA Dec 28 13:10:02 fnord /netbsd: CPU: i386DX (386-class CPU) Dec 28 13:10:03 fnord /netbsd: real mem = 8384512 Dec 28 13:10:03 fnord /netbsd: avail mem = 7098368 Dec 28 13:10:03 fnord /netbsd: using 63 buffers containing 520192 bytes of memory Dec 28 13:10:03 fnord /netbsd: pc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on isa Dec 28 13:10:03 fnord /netbsd: pc0: mono Dec 28 13:10:03 fnord /netbsd: com0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa Dec 28 13:10:03 fnord /netbsd: com0: fifo Dec 28 13:10:03 fnord /netbsd: com1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa Dec 28 13:10:03 fnord /netbsd: com1: fifo Dec 28 13:10:03 fnord /netbsd: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa Dec 28 13:10:03 fnord /netbsd: wd0 at wdc0 targ 0: 141MB 830 cyl, 10 head, 35 sec Dec 28 13:10:03 fnord /netbsd: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa Dec 28 13:10:03 fnord /netbsd: ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 9 maddr 0xd0000-0xd3fff on isa Dec 28 13:10:03 fnord /netbsd: ed0: address 00:00:c0:57:d7:23, type WD8013EB (16bit) Dec 28 13:10:03 fnord /netbsd: npx0 at 0xf0-0xff on isa Dec 28 13:10:03 fnord /netbsd: npx0: emulator Dec 28 13:10:03 fnord /netbsd: biomask 4040 ttymask 1a netmask 200 impmask 21a Dec 28 13:10:04 fnord /netbsd: wdc0: extra interrupt Dec 28 13:10:20 fnord named[47]: restarted Dec 28 13:10:20 fnord named[47]: FNORD.TLG.ORG has CNAME and other data (illegal) Dec 28 13:10:25 fnord named-xfer[50]: bad response to SOA query from 140.174.20.60, zone lever.com: rcode 0, aa 0, ancount 1, aucount 1 Dec 28 13:10:26 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone lever.com unreachable Dec 28 13:11:26 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp0 Dec 28 13:11:39 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone bi.com unreachable Dec 28 13:11:39 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone virtual.net unreachable Dec 28 13:11:39 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone barn.com unreachable Dec 28 13:11:40 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone everest.com unreachable Dec 28 13:11:41 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone zocalo.com unreachable Dec 28 13:12:54 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone msm.com unreachable Dec 28 13:12:54 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone nvidia.com unreachable Dec 28 16:30:44 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone tlg.rg.net unreachable Dec 28 16:47:00 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone lns.com unreachable Dec 28 16:47:00 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone wps.com unreachable Dec 28 16:47:02 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone ah.com unreachable Dec 28 20:12:08 fnord named[48]: FNORD.TLG.ORG has CNAME and other data (illegal) Dec 28 21:15:53 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone wsrcc.com unreachable Dec 28 23:07:10 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone ah.com unreachable Dec 28 23:15:48 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 28 23:16:16 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 29 04:08:34 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone tlg.rg.net unreachable Dec 29 08:48:12 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp0 Dec 29 11:49:20 fnord su: BAD SU tomj to root on /dev/ttyp0 Dec 29 11:52:41 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp0 Dec 29 11:52:47 fnord named[48]: reloading nameserver Dec 29 11:52:47 fnord named[48]: fnord.tlg.org: No such file or directory Dec 29 11:55:07 fnord named[48]: reloading nameserver Dec 29 11:55:08 fnord named[48]: fnord.tlg.org: No such file or directory Dec 29 12:04:24 fnord named[48]: reloading nameserver Dec 29 12:04:24 fnord named[48]: fnord.tlg.net: No such file or directory Dec 29 12:04:24 fnord named[48]: fnord.tlg.org: No such file or directory Dec 29 12:05:14 fnord named[48]: reloading nameserver Dec 29 19:16:05 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 29 22:30:55 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone wsrcc.com unreachable Dec 29 23:09:39 fnord login: 1 LOGIN FAILURE FROM dialup-1-14.gw.umn.edu Dec 29 23:09:39 fnord login: 1 LOGIN FAILURE FROM dialup-1-14.gw.umn.edu, guest Dec 30 00:51:02 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone queernet.org unreachable Dec 30 08:21:26 fnord /netbsd: NetBSD 0.9 (GENERICAHA) #17: Wed Aug 25 20:01:15 PDT 1993 Dec 30 08:21:26 fnord /netbsd: cgd@sun-lamp.cs.berkeley.edu:/e/users/cgd/trees/0.9-kernel/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERICAHA Dec 30 08:21:26 fnord /netbsd: CPU: i386DX (386-class CPU) Dec 30 08:21:27 fnord /netbsd: real mem = 8384512 Dec 30 08:21:27 fnord /netbsd: avail mem = 7098368 Dec 30 08:21:27 fnord /netbsd: using 63 buffers containing 520192 bytes of memory Dec 30 08:21:27 fnord /netbsd: pc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on isa Dec 30 08:21:27 fnord /netbsd: pc0: mono Dec 30 08:21:27 fnord /netbsd: com0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa Dec 30 08:21:27 fnord /netbsd: com0: fifo Dec 30 08:21:27 fnord /netbsd: com1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa Dec 30 08:21:27 fnord /netbsd: com1: fifo Dec 30 08:21:27 fnord /netbsd: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa Dec 30 08:21:27 fnord /netbsd: wd0 at wdc0 targ 0: 141MB 830 cyl, 10 head, 35 sec Dec 30 08:21:27 fnord /netbsd: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa Dec 30 08:21:27 fnord /netbsd: ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 9 maddr 0xd0000-0xd3fff on isa Dec 30 08:21:27 fnord /netbsd: ed0: address 00:00:c0:57:d7:23, type WD8013EB (16bit) Dec 30 08:21:27 fnord /netbsd: npx0 at 0xf0-0xff on isa Dec 30 08:21:27 fnord /netbsd: npx0: emulator Dec 30 08:21:28 fnord /netbsd: biomask 4040 ttymask 1a netmask 200 impmask 21a Dec 30 08:21:28 fnord /netbsd: wdc0: extra interrupt Dec 30 08:21:54 fnord named[47]: restarted Dec 30 08:21:59 fnord named-xfer[50]: bad response to SOA query from 140.174.20.60, zone lever.com: rcode 0, aa 0, ancount 1, aucount 1 Dec 30 08:22:00 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone lever.com unreachable Dec 30 08:23:14 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone barn.com unreachable Dec 30 08:23:14 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone virtual.net unreachable Dec 30 08:23:14 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone bi.com unreachable Dec 30 08:23:14 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone everest.com unreachable Dec 30 08:23:15 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone zocalo.com unreachable Dec 30 08:24:29 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone nvidia.com unreachable Dec 30 08:24:29 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone msm.com unreachable Dec 30 09:33:43 fnord telnetd[124]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(nbn.com) failed Dec 30 09:33:43 fnord telnetd[124]: refused connect from 199.4.65.1 Dec 30 10:39:23 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp0 Dec 30 10:43:06 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 30 10:51:18 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp0 Dec 30 11:01:42 fnord su: BAD SU pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 30 11:01:47 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 30 10:40:25 fnord telnetd[462]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(nbn.com) failed Dec 30 10:40:25 fnord telnetd[462]: refused connect from 199.4.65.1 Dec 30 10:48:14 fnord su: BAD SU tomj to root on /dev/ttyp0 Dec 30 10:48:34 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 30 11:26:19 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 30 11:52:16 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone wsrcc.com unreachable Dec 30 12:14:23 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 30 12:16:31 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 30 12:56:11 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 30 13:18:04 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 30 13:18:07 fnord named[48]: reloading nameserver Dec 30 13:29:29 fnord telnetd[2104]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(nbn.com) failed Dec 30 13:29:29 fnord telnetd[2104]: refused connect from 199.4.65.1 Dec 30 13:45:04 fnord ftpd[2146]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(filigree.nbn.com) failed Dec 30 13:45:04 fnord ftpd[2146]: refused connect from 199.4.65.2 Dec 30 13:45:23 fnord ftpd[2147]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(filigree.nbn.com) failed Dec 30 13:45:23 fnord ftpd[2147]: refused connect from 199.4.65.2 Dec 30 13:46:24 fnord ftpd[2148]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(filigree.nbn.com) failed Dec 30 13:46:24 fnord ftpd[2148]: refused connect from 199.4.65.2 Dec 30 13:48:03 fnord telnetd[2149]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(filigree.nbn.com) failed Dec 30 13:48:03 fnord telnetd[2149]: refused connect from 199.4.65.2 Dec 30 17:11:58 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 30 17:21:42 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 30 17:30:23 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 30 17:35:51 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 30 17:40:13 fnord rlogind[2489]: refused connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 30 17:40:22 fnord rlogind[2501]: refused connect from kumr.lns.com Dec 30 17:41:45 fnord rlogind[2518]: refused connect from slip1.lns.com Dec 30 17:53:34 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 30 19:14:37 fnord su: BAD SU pozar to root on /dev/ttyp3 Dec 30 19:14:42 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp3 Dec 30 19:34:26 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 30 19:44:59 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 30 19:45:25 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 31 00:07:41 fnord su: BAD SU tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 31 00:07:51 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 31 00:18:24 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 31 00:19:07 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 31 00:19:36 fnord named[48]: reloading nameserver Dec 31 00:20:17 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 31 00:23:49 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 31 00:23:54 fnord named[48]: reloading nameserver Dec 31 00:26:10 fnord named[48]: reloading nameserver Dec 31 02:25:01 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 31 02:28:33 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 31 02:28:43 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 31 02:40:07 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 31 03:12:35 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 31 07:52:32 fnord telnetd[4043]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(nbn.com) failed Dec 31 07:52:32 fnord telnetd[4043]: refused connect from 199.4.65.1 Dec 31 07:59:00 fnord telnetd[4049]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(nbn.com) failed Dec 31 07:59:00 fnord telnetd[4049]: refused connect from 199.4.65.1 Dec 31 09:40:32 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone wsrcc.com unreachable Dec 31 10:53:49 fnord su: BAD SU pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 31 12:20:36 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone ah.com unreachable Dec 31 14:25:26 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Dec 31 15:28:03 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 31 15:30:01 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 31 15:44:15 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 31 15:57:43 fnord su: BAD SU pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 31 15:57:48 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 31 15:59:18 fnord su: BAD SU pozar to root on /dev/ttyp3 Dec 31 15:59:24 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp3 Dec 31 16:13:22 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 31 16:32:36 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 31 16:32:58 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 31 17:10:37 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 31 17:10:59 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 31 17:11:45 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 31 17:12:09 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Dec 31 17:14:02 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Dec 31 23:38:24 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone wsrcc.com unreachable Jan 1 03:36:01 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone queernet.org unreachable Jan 1 15:18:30 fnord ftpd[5699]: FTP LOGIN REFUSED FROM timbo.lns.com, pozar Jan 1 15:18:40 fnord ftpd[5700]: FTP LOGIN REFUSED FROM timbo.lns.com, pozar Jan 1 15:18:52 fnord ftpd[5701]: FTP LOGIN REFUSED FROM timbo.lns.com, pozar Jan 1 15:20:54 fnord ftpd[5714]: FTP LOGIN REFUSED FROM timbo.lns.com, pozar Jan 1 15:46:37 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp3 Jan 1 15:50:16 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Jan 1 16:06:55 fnord su: BAD SU pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Jan 1 16:07:01 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Jan 1 17:02:25 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Jan 1 17:08:12 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Jan 1 17:25:28 fnord ftpd[6119]: FTP LOGIN REFUSED FROM kumr.lns.com, pozar Jan 1 19:15:21 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp3 Jan 1 19:22:47 fnord login: 1 LOGIN FAILURE FROM sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu Jan 1 19:22:47 fnord login: 1 LOGIN FAILURE FROM sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu, tlg Jan 1 19:27:24 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp3 Jan 1 20:03:06 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Jan 2 06:46:17 fnord /netbsd: NetBSD 0.9 (GENERICAHA) #17: Wed Aug 25 20:01:15 PDT 1993 Jan 2 06:46:17 fnord /netbsd: cgd@sun-lamp.cs.berkeley.edu:/e/users/cgd/trees/0.9-kernel/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERICAHA Jan 2 06:46:17 fnord /netbsd: CPU: i386DX (386-class CPU) Jan 2 06:46:17 fnord /netbsd: real mem = 8384512 Jan 2 06:46:17 fnord /netbsd: avail mem = 7098368 Jan 2 06:46:17 fnord /netbsd: using 63 buffers containing 520192 bytes of memory Jan 2 06:46:18 fnord /netbsd: pc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on isa Jan 2 06:46:18 fnord /netbsd: pc0: mono Jan 2 06:46:18 fnord /netbsd: com0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa Jan 2 06:46:18 fnord /netbsd: com0: fifo Jan 2 06:46:18 fnord /netbsd: com1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa Jan 2 06:46:18 fnord /netbsd: com1: fifo Jan 2 06:46:18 fnord /netbsd: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa Jan 2 06:46:18 fnord /netbsd: wd0 at wdc0 targ 0: 141MB 830 cyl, 10 head, 35 sec Jan 2 06:46:18 fnord /netbsd: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa Jan 2 06:46:18 fnord /netbsd: ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 9 maddr 0xd0000-0xd3fff on isa Jan 2 06:46:18 fnord /netbsd: ed0: address 00:00:c0:57:d7:23, type WD8013EB (16bit) Jan 2 06:46:18 fnord /netbsd: npx0 at 0xf0-0xff on isa Jan 2 06:46:18 fnord /netbsd: npx0: emulator Jan 2 06:46:18 fnord /netbsd: biomask 4040 ttymask 1a netmask 200 impmask 21a Jan 2 06:46:18 fnord /netbsd: wdc0: extra interrupt Jan 2 06:46:34 fnord named[47]: restarted Jan 2 06:46:42 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone barn.com unreachable Jan 2 06:46:44 fnord named-xfer[53]: bad response to SOA query from 140.174.20.60, zone lever.com: rcode 0, aa 0, ancount 1, aucount 1 Jan 2 06:46:45 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone lever.com unreachable Jan 2 06:47:54 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone virtual.net unreachable Jan 2 06:47:55 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone bi.com unreachable Jan 2 06:47:57 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone zocalo.com unreachable Jan 2 06:48:00 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone msm.com unreachable Jan 2 06:49:09 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone everest.com unreachable Jan 2 06:49:10 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone nvidia.com unreachable Jan 2 06:52:42 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Jan 2 07:27:06 fnord su: BAD SU pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Jan 2 07:27:11 fnord su: pozar to root on /dev/ttyp1 Jan 2 11:06:58 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone wsrcc.com unreachable Jan 2 13:09:43 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp2 Jan 2 14:54:15 fnord ftpd[605]: warning: host name/address mismatch: 129.97.140.49 != cayley.uwaterloo.ca Jan 2 14:54:15 fnord ftpd[605]: refused connect from nckwan@129.97.140.49 Jan 2 14:56:07 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/console Jan 2 17:48:34 fnord ftpd[763]: warning: host name/address mismatch: 192.65.216.64 != gerbilmeister.Hyperion.COM Jan 2 17:48:34 fnord ftpd[763]: refused connect from koreth@192.65.216.64 Jan 2 18:53:17 fnord su: BAD SU grossman to root on /dev/ttyp3 Jan 2 18:53:26 fnord su: BAD SU grossman to root on /dev/ttyp3 Jan 2 22:16:58 fnord /netbsd: NetBSD 0.9 (GENERICAHA) #17: Wed Aug 25 20:01:15 PDT 1993 Jan 2 22:16:58 fnord /netbsd: cgd@sun-lamp.cs.berkeley.edu:/e/users/cgd/trees/0.9-kernel/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERICAHA Jan 2 22:16:58 fnord /netbsd: CPU: i386DX (386-class CPU) Jan 2 22:16:58 fnord /netbsd: real mem = 8384512 Jan 2 22:16:58 fnord /netbsd: avail mem = 7098368 Jan 2 22:16:58 fnord /netbsd: using 63 buffers containing 520192 bytes of memory Jan 2 22:16:58 fnord /netbsd: pc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on isa Jan 2 22:16:58 fnord /netbsd: pc0: mono Jan 2 22:16:59 fnord /netbsd: com0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa Jan 2 22:16:59 fnord /netbsd: com0: fifo Jan 2 22:16:59 fnord /netbsd: com1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa Jan 2 22:16:59 fnord /netbsd: com1: fifo Jan 2 22:16:59 fnord /netbsd: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa Jan 2 22:16:59 fnord /netbsd: wd0 at wdc0 targ 0: 141MB 830 cyl, 10 head, 35 sec Jan 2 22:16:59 fnord /netbsd: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa Jan 2 22:16:59 fnord /netbsd: ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 9 maddr 0xd0000-0xd3fff on isa Jan 2 22:16:59 fnord /netbsd: ed0: address 00:00:c0:57:d7:23, type WD8013EB (16bit) Jan 2 22:16:59 fnord /netbsd: npx0 at 0xf0-0xff on isa Jan 2 22:16:59 fnord /netbsd: npx0: emulator Jan 2 22:16:59 fnord /netbsd: biomask 4040 ttymask 1a netmask 200 impmask 21a Jan 2 22:16:59 fnord /netbsd: wdc0: extra interrupt Jan 2 22:17:14 fnord named[47]: restarted Jan 2 22:17:23 fnord named-xfer[63]: bad response to SOA query from 140.174.20.60, zone lever.com: rcode 0, aa 0, ancount 1, aucount 1 Jan 2 22:17:23 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone lever.com unreachable Jan 2 22:18:01 fnord login: LOGIN root REFUSED ON TTY console Jan 2 22:18:37 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone virtual.net unreachable Jan 2 22:18:37 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone wsrcc.com unreachable Jan 2 22:18:40 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone bi.com unreachable Jan 2 22:18:43 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone zocalo.com unreachable Jan 2 22:19:08 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone everest.com unreachable Jan 2 22:19:52 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone msm.com unreachable Jan 2 22:19:55 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone nvidia.com unreachable Jan 2 22:31:11 fnord /netbsd: NetBSD 0.9 (GENERICAHA) #17: Wed Aug 25 20:01:15 PDT 1993 Jan 2 22:31:11 fnord /netbsd: cgd@sun-lamp.cs.berkeley.edu:/e/users/cgd/trees/0.9-kernel/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERICAHA Jan 2 22:31:11 fnord /netbsd: CPU: i386DX (386-class CPU) Jan 2 22:31:11 fnord /netbsd: real mem = 8384512 Jan 2 22:31:11 fnord /netbsd: avail mem = 7098368 Jan 2 22:31:11 fnord /netbsd: using 63 buffers containing 520192 bytes of memory Jan 2 22:31:12 fnord /netbsd: pc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on isa Jan 2 22:31:12 fnord /netbsd: pc0: mono Jan 2 22:31:12 fnord /netbsd: com0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa Jan 2 22:31:12 fnord /netbsd: com0: fifo Jan 2 22:31:12 fnord /netbsd: com1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa Jan 2 22:31:12 fnord /netbsd: com1: fifo Jan 2 22:31:12 fnord /netbsd: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa Jan 2 22:31:12 fnord /netbsd: wd0 at wdc0 targ 0: 141MB 830 cyl, 10 head, 35 sec Jan 2 22:31:12 fnord /netbsd: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa Jan 2 22:31:12 fnord /netbsd: ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 9 maddr 0xd0000-0xd3fff on isa Jan 2 22:31:12 fnord /netbsd: ed0: address 00:00:c0:57:d7:23, type WD8013EB (16bit) Jan 2 22:31:12 fnord /netbsd: npx0 at 0xf0-0xff on isa Jan 2 22:31:12 fnord /netbsd: npx0: emulator Jan 2 22:31:12 fnord /netbsd: biomask 4040 ttymask 1a netmask 200 impmask 21a Jan 2 22:31:12 fnord /netbsd: wdc0: extra interrupt Jan 2 22:31:27 fnord named[47]: restarted Jan 2 22:31:33 fnord named-xfer[51]: bad response to SOA query from 140.174.20.60, zone lever.com: rcode 0, aa 0, ancount 1, aucount 1 Jan 2 22:31:33 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone lever.com unreachable Jan 2 22:32:47 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone wsrcc.com unreachable Jan 2 22:32:47 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone bi.com unreachable Jan 2 22:32:47 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone virtual.net unreachable Jan 2 22:32:48 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone everest.com unreachable Jan 2 22:32:49 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone zocalo.com unreachable Jan 2 22:34:02 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone msm.com unreachable Jan 2 22:34:02 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone nvidia.com unreachable Jan 3 01:29:03 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone queernet.org unreachable Jan 3 11:02:58 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone tiw.com unreachable Jan 3 11:43:56 fnord su: grossman to root on /dev/console Jan 3 13:11:47 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone garage.com unreachable Jan 3 13:13:02 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone barn.com unreachable Jan 3 13:37:45 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/console Jan 3 13:38:08 fnord /netbsd: wd0c: overlaps open partition (a) Jan 3 13:38:08 fnord /netbsd: wd0c: overlaps open partition (b) Jan 3 13:38:08 fnord /netbsd: wd0c: overlaps open partition (e) Jan 3 15:15:57 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp1 Jan 3 17:08:18 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Jan 4 00:01:02 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone garage.com unreachable Jan 4 00:12:40 fnord su: grossman to root on /dev/console Jan 4 00:27:47 fnord reboot: rebooted by grossman Jan 4 00:27:49 fnord syslogd: exiting on signal 15 Jan 4 00:54:30 fnord /netbsd: NetBSD 0.9 (GENERICAHA) #17: Wed Aug 25 20:01:15 PDT 1993 Jan 4 00:54:30 fnord /netbsd: cgd@sun-lamp.cs.berkeley.edu:/e/users/cgd/trees/0.9-kernel/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERICAHA Jan 4 00:54:30 fnord /netbsd: CPU: i386DX (386-class CPU) Jan 4 00:54:30 fnord /netbsd: real mem = 8384512 Jan 4 00:54:30 fnord /netbsd: avail mem = 7098368 Jan 4 00:54:30 fnord /netbsd: using 63 buffers containing 520192 bytes of memory Jan 4 00:54:31 fnord /netbsd: pc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on isa Jan 4 00:54:31 fnord /netbsd: pc0: mono Jan 4 00:54:31 fnord /netbsd: com0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa Jan 4 00:54:31 fnord /netbsd: com0: fifo Jan 4 00:54:31 fnord /netbsd: com1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa Jan 4 00:54:31 fnord /netbsd: com1: fifo Jan 4 00:54:31 fnord /netbsd: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa Jan 4 00:54:31 fnord /netbsd: wd0 at wdc0 targ 0: 141MB 830 cyl, 10 head, 35 sec Jan 4 00:54:31 fnord /netbsd: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa Jan 4 00:54:31 fnord /netbsd: ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 9 maddr 0xd0000-0xd3fff on isa Jan 4 00:54:31 fnord /netbsd: ed0: address 00:00:c0:57:d7:23, type WD8013EB (16bit) Jan 4 00:54:31 fnord /netbsd: npx0 at 0xf0-0xff on isa Jan 4 00:54:31 fnord /netbsd: npx0: emulator Jan 4 00:54:31 fnord /netbsd: biomask 4040 ttymask 1a netmask 200 impmask 21a Jan 4 00:54:31 fnord /netbsd: ISA strayintr 7 Jan 4 00:54:31 fnord /netbsd: wdc0: extra interrupt Jan 4 00:54:46 fnord named[47]: restarted Jan 4 00:30:04 fnord named-xfer[52]: bad response to SOA query from 140.174.20.60, zone lever.com: rcode 0, aa 0, ancount 1, aucount 1 Jan 4 00:30:04 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone lever.com unreachable Jan 4 14:28:46 fnord /netbsd: NetBSD 0.9 (GENERICAHA) #17: Wed Aug 25 20:01:15 PDT 1993 Jan 4 14:28:46 fnord /netbsd: cgd@sun-lamp.cs.berkeley.edu:/e/users/cgd/trees/0.9-kernel/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERICAHA Jan 4 14:28:46 fnord /netbsd: CPU: i386DX (386-class CPU) Jan 4 14:28:46 fnord /netbsd: real mem = 8384512 Jan 4 14:28:46 fnord /netbsd: avail mem = 7098368 Jan 4 14:28:46 fnord /netbsd: using 63 buffers containing 520192 bytes of memory Jan 4 14:28:47 fnord /netbsd: pc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on isa Jan 4 14:28:47 fnord /netbsd: pc0: mono Jan 4 14:28:47 fnord /netbsd: com0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa Jan 4 14:28:47 fnord /netbsd: com0: fifo Jan 4 14:28:47 fnord /netbsd: com1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa Jan 4 14:28:47 fnord /netbsd: com1: fifo Jan 4 14:28:47 fnord /netbsd: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa Jan 4 14:28:47 fnord /netbsd: wd0 at wdc0 targ 0: 141MB 830 cyl, 10 head, 35 sec Jan 4 14:28:47 fnord /netbsd: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa Jan 4 14:28:47 fnord /netbsd: ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 9 maddr 0xd0000-0xd3fff on isa Jan 4 14:28:47 fnord /netbsd: ed0: address 00:00:c0:57:d7:23, type WD8013EB (16bit) Jan 4 14:28:47 fnord /netbsd: npx0 at 0xf0-0xff on isa Jan 4 14:28:47 fnord /netbsd: npx0: emulator Jan 4 14:28:47 fnord /netbsd: biomask 4040 ttymask 1a netmask 200 impmask 21a Jan 4 14:28:47 fnord /netbsd: wdc0: extra interrupt Jan 4 14:29:02 fnord named[47]: restarted Jan 4 14:29:08 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone garage.com unreachable Jan 4 14:29:10 fnord named-xfer[61]: bad response to SOA query from 140.174.20.60, zone lever.com: rcode 0, aa 0, ancount 1, aucount 1 Jan 4 14:29:11 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone lever.com unreachable Jan 4 14:05:21 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone wsrcc.com unreachable Jan 4 14:05:22 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone virtual.net unreachable Jan 4 14:05:22 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone everest.com unreachable Jan 4 14:05:27 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone bi.com unreachable Jan 4 14:05:31 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone zocalo.com unreachable Jan 4 14:06:37 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone msm.com unreachable Jan 4 14:06:38 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone nvidia.com unreachable Jan 4 17:26:57 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Jan 4 23:43:43 fnord su: grossman to root on /dev/console Jan 5 00:13:10 fnord ftpd[1083]: FTP LOGIN REFUSED FROM timbo.lns.com, pozar Jan 5 00:28:04 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone garage.com unreachable Jan 5 00:29:20 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone barn.com unreachable Jan 5 01:17:49 fnord telnetd[1230]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(gw-srf.nbn.com) failed Jan 5 01:17:49 fnord telnetd[1230]: refused connect from 199.4.64.17 Jan 5 01:17:58 fnord telnetd[1231]: warning: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(gw-srf.nbn.com) failed Jan 5 01:17:58 fnord telnetd[1231]: refused connect from 199.4.64.17 Jan 5 22:34:40 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone wsrcc.com unreachable Jan 5 23:20:55 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone lns.com unreachable Jan 5 23:54:29 fnord /netbsd: NetBSD 0.9 (GENERICAHA) #17: Wed Aug 25 20:01:15 PDT 1993 Jan 5 23:54:29 fnord /netbsd: cgd@sun-lamp.cs.berkeley.edu:/e/users/cgd/trees/0.9-kernel/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERICAHA Jan 5 23:54:29 fnord /netbsd: CPU: i386DX (386-class CPU) Jan 5 23:54:29 fnord /netbsd: real mem = 8384512 Jan 5 23:54:29 fnord /netbsd: avail mem = 7098368 Jan 5 23:54:29 fnord /netbsd: using 63 buffers containing 520192 bytes of memory Jan 5 23:54:30 fnord /netbsd: pc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on isa Jan 5 23:54:30 fnord /netbsd: pc0: mono Jan 5 23:54:30 fnord /netbsd: com0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa Jan 5 23:54:30 fnord /netbsd: com0: fifo Jan 5 23:54:30 fnord /netbsd: com1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa Jan 5 23:54:30 fnord /netbsd: com1: fifo Jan 5 23:54:30 fnord /netbsd: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa Jan 5 23:54:30 fnord /netbsd: wd0 at wdc0 targ 0: 141MB 830 cyl, 10 head, 35 sec Jan 5 23:54:30 fnord /netbsd: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa Jan 5 23:54:30 fnord /netbsd: ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 9 maddr 0xd0000-0xd3fff on isa Jan 5 23:54:30 fnord /netbsd: ed0: address 00:00:c0:57:d7:23, type WD8013EB (16bit) Jan 5 23:54:30 fnord /netbsd: npx0 at 0xf0-0xff on isa Jan 5 23:54:30 fnord /netbsd: npx0: emulator Jan 5 23:54:30 fnord /netbsd: biomask 4040 ttymask 1a netmask 200 impmask 21a Jan 5 23:54:30 fnord /netbsd: wdc0: extra interrupt Jan 5 23:54:45 fnord named[47]: restarted Jan 5 23:54:58 fnord named-xfer[54]: bad response to SOA query from 140.174.20.60, zone lever.com: rcode 0, aa 0, ancount 1, aucount 1 Jan 5 23:54:59 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone lever.com unreachable Jan 5 23:31:02 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone wsrcc.com unreachable Jan 5 23:31:03 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone virtual.net unreachable Jan 5 23:31:04 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Jan 5 23:31:04 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone bi.com unreachable Jan 5 23:31:04 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone everest.com unreachable Jan 5 23:31:11 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone zocalo.com unreachable Jan 5 23:31:24 fnord syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Jan 5 23:32:17 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone msm.com unreachable Jan 5 23:32:19 fnord named[48]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone nvidia.com unreachable Jan 6 11:03:22 fnord su: tomj to root on /dev/ttyp1 Jan 6 12:27:09 fnord named[48]: reloading nameserver Contents of maillog: tomj 1 7088 Dec 27 01:25:59 tlg last message repeated 2 times Dec 27 03:00:06 tlg mail.local: localhost: Undefined error: 0 Dec 27 03:50:01 tlg mail.local: localhost: Undefined error: 0 Dec 27 05:02:01 tlg mail.local: localhost: Undefined error: 0 Dec 27 11:10:08 tlg mail.local: localhost: Undefined error: 0 Dec 27 11:36:25 tlg mail.local: localhost: Undefined error: 0 root 1 70 root 1 70 root 1 67 root 1 67 root 1 67 root 1 67 root 1 67 root 1 67 root 1 67 root 1 67 root 1 67 root 1 67 root 1 67 root 1 70 root 1 70 root 1 70 root 1 70 tomj 1 69 root 1 70 root 1 70 root 1 67 Dec 29 11:56:50 fnord mail.local: localhost: Undefined error: 0 root 1 70 root 1 67 root 1 67 root 1 70 root 1 70 tomj 1 528 tomj 1 533 tomj 1 528 tomj 1 33 tomj 1 32 tomj 1 777 tomj 1 26 tomj 1 34 tomj 1 25 tomj 1 25 tomj 1 159 tomj 1 159 tomj 1 164 tomj 1 528 root 1 69 root 1 70 tomj 1 62 root 1 70 tomj 1 57 tomj 1 105 flesh 1 255 flesh 1 261 root 1 94 root 1 94 root 1 96 root 1 67 root 1 70 root 1 70 root 1 70 root 1 69 root 1 70 root 1 70 tomj 1 157 root 1 69 root 1 69 root 1 70 root 1 70 tomj 1 162 tomj 1 162 flesh 1 259 root 1 70 root 1 67 root 1 67 root 1 67 flesh 1 255 root 1 69 root 1 69 root 1 70 tomj 1 3093 root 1 70 root 1 71 tomj 1 140 tomj 1 64 root 1 70 root 1 70 root 1 69 root 1 70 root 1 70 Emptying unused logs; /var/cron/log, /var/cron/log, Mail Queue (2 requests) --Q-ID-- --Size-- -----Q-Time----- ------------Sender/Recipient------------ BAA01212* 2213 Wed Jan 5 01:02 MAILER-DAEMON (Deferred: Connection reset by peer during client QUIT with f) OAA00106 286 Tue Jan 4 14:04 Started security at Thu Jan 6 12:28:00 PST 1994 Ended at Thu Jan 6 12:28:00 PST 1994 From tomj@fido.wps.com Fri Jan 7 16:50:34 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id QAA02545; Fri, 7 Jan 1994 16:50:31 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA13443; Fri, 7 Jan 94 16:51:36 -0800 Received: from hp.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA13082; Fri, 7 Jan 94 15:35:34 -0800 Received: from hpmidmrf.sr.hp.com by hp.com with SMTP (1.36.108.7/15.5+IOS 3.13) id AA11837; Fri, 7 Jan 1994 15:35:28 -0800 Received: by hpmidmrf.sr.hp.com (1.37.109.5/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA09688; Fri, 7 Jan 94 15:33:34 -0800 From: Mike Ferrara Message-Id: <9401072333.AA09688@hpmidmrf.sr.hp.com> Subject: internet connections To: tomj@wps.com Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 15:33:34 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 396 Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O Tom- Strata Rose pointed me to you to ask about internet connections. Can you help me. We're looking for a full time business connections at 14.4 SLIP/PPP, we (at this point) have no IP number, and no MX domain registration. Thanks. -mike -- Mike Ferrara M/S 4USS HP Microwave Instruments Div R&D 1400 Fountain Grove Pkwy Santa Rosa, CA 95403-1799 (707) 577-4479 mikef@sr.hp.com From admin@tlg.org Fri Jan 7 17:29:01 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id RAA02672; Fri, 7 Jan 1994 17:28:45 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401080128.RAA02672@tlg.org> Subject: TLG Jan 94 news... To: garden-list@tlg.org Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 17:28:44 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 10246 Status: O Pretty close to the beginning of the month, where I used to, and once again will, mail out news on TLG and member contact info, IP maps, that sort of thing. It's still a little raw here, swamped with work. TLG now has it's own host, as unreliable as it is (built from donated, in some cases antique, parts). tlg.org allows me to delegate some tasks (finally!). It is the name server for TLG members, primary and secondary. It's a central place for non-members to get information. It holds the "how to" docs I've been slowly building. Four people have accounts on it; myself, our new intern Randy (Flesh@tlg.org), Tim Pozar, and Stu Grossman. ITEM: There are some useful aliases, which I'll expand upon slightly in the contact list. ITEM: The world IP map is kinda sketchy. The information is accurate, there's just not much to guide you. I have the components, it will just take a while to get together. ITEM: I will announce a meeting for 19 January, at 444 Market, after which we can retire to a local pub or something. We need to work out an agenda, I have some items for it. IMPORTANT ITEM: I just mailed out 28 invoices, on 31 Dec 93. We're still not out of the startup phase, and I really need to get that cash, as soon as possible if not sooner. I also sent out statements to most people who made loans in the form of pay-ahead. If you see any discrepancies please let me know! This month, February and March will be the worst, we shoudl be running positive then, by some small amount. (Then the next month is April, tax month, and another bunch of fun begins.) FWIW, business overhead alone (tracking accounts, billing, banking, etc) runs about 8hrs/week, though this last one took twice that, since I had to untangle the pay-aheads and generate a balance sheet. Which brings me right to this point -- (200 lines of it, sorry!) * * * * * The discourse this past week in this list was interesting, and a bit alarming to me. I've been meaning to write about this, but I literally have not had the time. Plainly stated, we are not a cooperative, and have never been. As much as the word was used in '93, there was never really any signs of cooperative activity. I mean in the formal sense of "cooperative", not that we don't work together... I have worked with two major cooperative groups; the '89 Anarchist Gathering, and Nomenus, the Radical Faerie corporation that owns and operates 80 acres of land in Oregon as a sanctuary. The Gathering was put on by a handful of autonomous groups accross the US, one of which was the Bound Together Books collective. Nomenus is more interesting, and pointful, in that they have a 501(c)3 corp. that owns substantial property; they take their collective process seriously. All ~250 members of Nomenus are *board members*! And they work by full consensus, mainly through groups of smaller committees, and any one person can block. Collectives move slooowly. It took Nomenus a *year* to build a bridge. They took *everything* into account. It was frustrating. Until it was done vehicles could not enter the land during rainy season. Looking back over the last five or so years of decisions, they've made very few bad ones. The price: as Ed says, slower, or rasher, inexperienced members create distractions and make-work for other members. The result: a sense of community, the ability to affect the outcome. Requirement: a basic vision and path, a closely knit core group to start, and the ability to bring more people into your vision. Drawbacks: it attracts process-junkies and those able to hold out win. The Gathering took six months to find a building to rent for a one-week venture, and ultimately did an *excellent* job. What we have is none of that. A lot of would-be coop intent is to make a set of rules to restrain people from doing bad or stupid things (both locally defined). We have an environment where, a year to make a decision means a constantly moving target. We have fast-moving, intricately-interconnected systems, people and hardware following Moore's Law squared. And I can tell you for fact, it's too late now anyways. You don't "become" a coop, that's fantasy. At our core is *money* dammit, plain old money. IFF net connections were cheap and easy, we wouldn't be doing any of this. Even in 1990, you could get a net connection. It simply cost too much! TLG did not pre-exist our individual needs for networking, though many of us have similar or compatible goals. We came together around access and low-cost first, each other secondarily, if at all. Them's the facks, for the most part, and not in the slightest a complaint or liability. Consider the slight detail that 75% of the people reading this, and previous ramblings on The Little Garden, haven't a clue as to what we're talking about; except for Rich Morin's brief history document, there *is no* social glue to build around. I'm not complaining in *any way*. * * * * * More disturbing to me, personally, is the almost-offhand way that more than one person tossed off, "someone might want to get paid" for supporting TLG's infrastructure. Hello! Nearly no TLG members were around last September 92 when John Gilmore and I drafted my "job description". I'd gladly re-issue a copy of it, if I only had one, as it was lost in my disk crash'n'burn this past summer. Hopefully someone else has a copy. Basically, when I started doing this, we had very vague plans of expanding TLG (vague in detail). In Dec93 I was making $420/mo, around Jun93, $600?/mo. I started out with a DOS machine, and out of pocket built a unix machine and got on the net directly (about Feb 93). The work was about 20hrs/week. It was recognized that the pay was shitty, but the work was laissez-faire, and I was on the net. The work steadily increased, until by summer we had accumulated quite a few members, relative to Dec93, and then incurred the Wrath of Rick (Adams). Expansion became explicit. About 1 September 1993, the work became quite definitely full-time. I was still making $700/mo or less. The current-TLG was being researched by me, Pozar, Gilmore and Randy Bush. Every step we took it became incredibly more complex than we realized; we had grossly underestimated literally every component. We were having sporadic but not infrequent meetings at the time, and the info-dumps became more and more baroque, as the core group learned more, it became harder to communicate it to the group at large. Each time, the group charged us to go off and do the next step. At the same time, the gulf between what we thought we were doing and what we were *actually* doing became unbreachable -- the group that built/ran the net and the members. We were under time pressure. Alternet had told us "find another provider"; and there were other windows of opportunity we saw open that we weren't sure would stay open; and we began to realize just how long it would take to actually complete, once we said "go". The knowledge required to build TLG in Oct/Nov 93 became exceedingly arcane, and the group and the core were hopelessly disconnected. For better or worse, was this? You tell me. * * * * * Back to money (as if we ever left it). Back to Aug93, when the TLG members said "go" and we committed to building TLG. My little part time almost-a-job leaped into a more-than-full-time job. I DID NOT AND DO NOT WANT A REAL JOB. If I wanted one, I have enough talents to get one, thank you. Rather, I value other things. The naive intent back then was, there will be this startup hassle, lasting months, then it will subside. Duh! It will NOT subside! Now I have a job! My salary leaped from about $800 (it was proportional to the number of members) to a fixed $1000 about Oct93, where it is now. It was left, even more vaguely than the growth plans, that I would be compensated somehow in the future. To be plain and simple after these hundred lines -- yes, I flatly expect to be paid for this! What on *earth* possible motive could I have? In summer-93, we envisioned ourselves, as far as I can tell, in a pretty relaxed manner, downtime was viewed for the most part casually, on the smaller branches anyways (which was sensible considering some of the hardware we were using then!) I handled about $1000/mo gross, most of which went to my salary, but I also bought NOS boxen, cables, outlet strips, generated documentation and proceedures, etc. All of the actual cost of the backbone was hidden, paid for by Cygnus, Gilmore, Jim Wilson, TIS, and some of the original TLG members. In Jan94, we are a reliable and growing network provider. Arbitrary downtime is most decidedly NOT tolerated, and we have all new, reliable hardware, and I'm putting organizational systems into place for the rest of it. I pay $5000/mo in simple overhead, 80% of which is leased lines and Sprint and office overhead. This is not a hobby. When we made this leap from big "hobby" (though we never really were) to a real network service provider, I'm sorry, it requires full-time employees. Me, at the moment. Maybe some people hear "TLG" and imagine last spring, where all TLG members could actually eat dinner in The Little Garden Restaurant in Palo Alto, talk to each other. We intentionally built our way away from that model, and the chickens is now home to roosts. It is not an option for me to go back to part time work on TLG, nor to find other income, even. In short, yes, I will be compensated for this work, though it's not clear what this means yet. My guess is, all this may surprise or alarm older TLG members, but newer ones, say connected after Sep93, will be alarmed in the other direction, that we're not just assuming we're a profit-making business! Just my guess. And last, just thought I'd reiterate some things, that I don't consider this a business to be pumped for profit, that some of us still see TLG as a socially and politically signifigant network provider, pushing the state of things not by competing head-on, but by setting precedent, such as the resell-ability and no restrictions on use. Though if we don't get explicit on THAT as well I can easily see it getting lost in the haze of the future. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From admin@tlg.org Fri Jan 7 17:33:24 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id RAA02690; Fri, 7 Jan 1994 17:33:20 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401080133.RAA02690@tlg.org> Subject: TLG Jan 94 Member contact list To: garden-list@tlg.org Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 17:33:19 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 5343 Status: OR The Little Garden Network: Contacts List, 7 January, 1994 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- info@tlg.org Gets you an automatic response of our brief brochure, plus the message gets forwarded to... admin@tlg.org Me, Pozar and Randy. We answer questions, and it's a good place to send problem reports etc. # Mailing lists garden-list@tlg.org Sends mail to all TLG members in the Contact list. the-little-garden@cygnus.com Still works private-garden@cygnus.com Still works ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- # POP:SF North Bay Network Inc, John Harkin jh@nbn.com (John Harkin). . . . . . . . . . . 415-472-1600 Late Night Software, Tim Pozar pozar@kumr.lns.com (Tim Pozar). . . . . . . . . . . 415 695 7727 h Zocalo Engineering, Bill Woodcock woody@zocalo.com (Bill Woodcock) . . . . . . . . . 510 540 8000 Nexsys Electronics Inc, Pete Killcommons M.D. admin@cybermed.com (Pete Killcommons) . . . . . . . 415-541-9980 David Muir Sharnoff muir@idiom.berkeley.ca.us (David Muir Sharnoff) . . 510 644 0441 h Eric Theise verve@well.sf.ca.us (Eric Theise) . . . . . . . . . 415 648 0161 Vitadata, Lee Jensen lee@bio.com (Lee Jensen) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 510 237-6113 World Power Systems, Tom Jennings tomj@fido.wps.com (Tom Jennings). . . . . . . . . . 415 552 8156 h # POP:TOAD John Gilmore gnu@toad.com (John Gilmore) . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 221 6524 sf Joe's Garage, Kenton A. Hoover shibumi@joes.garage.com (Kenton A. Hoover) . . . . 415 957 3614 shibumi@net.bio.net (Kenton A. Hoover). . . . . . . 415 962 7323 Joe's Garage, Kira Siegel kira@lsil.com (Kira Seigel) . . . . . . . . . . . 408 433 6904 Canta Forda Computer Laboratory, Rich Morin rdm@cfcl.com (Rich Morin) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 873 7842,41 Lever Industries, Ed Elhauge ee@lever.com (Ed Elhauge) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3141 w Imagine That, Richard Couture rrc@myrddin.imat.com (Richard Couture). . . . . . . 415 621 1908 h Wired Magazine, Andrew Waegel andrew@wired.com (Andrew Waegel) . . . . . . . . . 415 904 6459 QueerNet, Roger Klorese rogerk@queernet.org (Roger Klorese) . . . . . . . . 415 255 2733 h A-Squared, Arthur Abraham a2@cryptoad.ah.com (Arthur Abraham) . . . . . . . . 510 339 1748 Dan Farmer zen@bi.com (Dan Farmer) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 431 8239 Information Enterprises, Tom Wadlow wadlow@tw.com (Tom Wadlow). . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 864 1554 Broadcatch Technology, Fen Labalme fen@comedia.com (Fen Labalme) . . . . . . . . . . . 415 731 1174 Barn Communications, Tim Wicinski wicinski@barn.com (Tim Wicinski). . . . . . . . . . 415-467-9136 Cyborganic Media, Jonathan Steuer Jonathan@cyborganic.com (Jonathan Steuer) . . . . . 415-255-1120 Robert Cohen robc@lavender.com (Robert Cohen) . . . . . . . . . 415-553-4033 # PA ;list: garden-pa-list Hugh Daniel hugh@toad.com (Hugh Daniel) . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 473 0669 h Rich Pixley rich@sendai.cygnus.com (Rich Pixley). . . . . . . . 415 903 1400 w Jim Wilson wilson@moria.cygnus.com (Jim Wilson). . . . . . . . 415 329 8321 h Sean Fagan sef@kithrup.com (Sean Fagan). . . . . . . . . . . . Bill Cox bill@cygnus.com (Bill Cox) . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 321 0579 h Hoopy Froods, Inc, Michael Park mikep@dragoman.com (Michael Park) . . . . . . . . . 415 340 9770 h . . . . . . . . . 415 599 3012 w TSoft BBS & Public Unix, Mike Durkin mdurkin@tsoft.net (Mike Durkin) . . . . . . . . . . 805 546 8114 h Paul Goldstone paul@traveler.com (Paul Goldstone) . . . . . . . . 415 365 9373 h WS Rupprecht Consulting, Wolfgang Rupprecht wolfgang@wsrcc.com (Wolfgang Rupprecht) . . . . . . 510 794 6437 h Seiden and Associates, Mark Seiden mis@seiden.com (Mark Seiden) . . . . . . . . . . . 415 592 8559 h Virtual City, M. Strata Rose strata@virtual-city.virtual.net (M. Strata Rose) . 415 327 6027 h David S.H. Rosenthal dshr@abitare.org (David S.H. Rosenthal) . . . . . . 415 323 5285 Eric Murray root@skidpad.palo-alto.ca.us (Eric Murray) . . . . 415 493 8107 Dogwood Media, David Cornejo root@dogwood.com (David Cornejo) . . . . . . . . . 510 713 2667 TIW Systems Inc, Lonhyn T. Jasinskyj lonhyn@tiw.com (Lonhyn T. Jasinskyj) . . . . . . . 408 734 3900 x327 NVidia Corp, David S.H. Rosenthal dshr@NVidia.COM (David S.H. Rosenthal) . . . . . . 408 720 6106 #POP: CYGNUS Cygnus Support, John Gilmore gnu@cygnus.com (John Gilmore) . . . . . . . . . . . 415 903 1418 mv Cygnus Support, Stu Grossman grossman@cygnus.com (Stu Grossman) . . . . . . . . 415 903 1400 Cygnus Support, Jean Marie Diaz ambar@cygnus.com (Jean Marie Diaz) . . . . . . . . 415 903 1400 MSM Co, Greg Merrell postmaster@msm.com (Greg Merrell) . . . . . . . . . 408 253 2290 Arasmith Engineering, Bob Arasmith bob@arasmith.com (Bob Arasmith) . . . . . . . . . . 408 749 0501 Sunnyside Computing Inc, Al Whaley Al@Sunnyside.COM (Al Whaley). . . . . . . . . . . . 415 322 5411 Santa Cruz Community Internet, Qarin Von Brink, Matthew Kaufman admin@scruz.net . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 408 457 5050 Everest Technology Inc, Robert Nielsen rnielsen@everest.com (Robert Nielsen) . . . . . . . 415 326 2130 -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From admin@tlg.org Fri Jan 7 17:34:29 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id RAA02701; Fri, 7 Jan 1994 17:34:26 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401080134.RAA02701@tlg.org> Subject: TLG Jan 94 World IP map (shaky) To: garden-list@tlg.org Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 17:34:25 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 5522 Status: OR POP name: SF Location: 444 Market, Room 3075, San Francisco TS0-SF.TLG.RG.NET, 140.174.122.3 net -------- destination --- port username, etc --------------------------- 157.22 157.22.1.52 s0 woody@zocalo.com (Bill Woodcock) 140.174.7 140.174.7.1 s1 pozar@kumr.lns.com (Tim Pozar) 140.174.80 140.174.80.1 s2 (Eric Theise) 140.174.82 140.174.82.1 s3 muir@idiom.berkeley.ca.us (David Sharnoff) 140.174.101 140.174.101.1 s4 Gumby 192.216.47 192.216.47.21 s5 lee@bio.com (Lee Jensen) 140.174.77 140.174.77.1 s6 tomj@wps.com (Tom Jennings) POP name: CYGNUS Location: 1937 Landings Drive, Mtn. View TS0-MV.TLG.RG.NET, 140.174.4.3 net -------- destination --- port username, etc --------------------------- 198.49.1 198.49.1.1 s1 postmaster@msm.com (Greg Merrill) 192.135.76 192.135.76.3 s2 bob@arasmith.com (Bob Arasmith) 192.148.18 192.135.76.3 s2 bob@arasmith.com (Bob Arasmith) 140.174.106 140.174.106.1 s3 tal@pss.com (Tom Lipkis) 140.174.102 140.174.102.1 s4 root@dsnet.com (Duane Davis) 140.174.104 140.174.104.1 s5 rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen) 198.207.136 198.207.136.10 s6 Al@Sunnyside.COM (Al Whaley) POP name: TOAD Location: Toad Hall, San Francisco Router (56K termination): GW-TOAD.TLG.RG.NET .2.23 --- domain ------ gate -- dest -- subnet -- user -- name, etc toad.com .2.1 gnu (John Gilmore) ts0-toad.tlg.rg.net .2.27 Router for TLG members, see below ts4-toad.tlg.rg.net .2.73 Router for TLG members, see below mofo.toad.com .2.20 curt (Curt Mayer) # This is the new PortMaster at Toad Hall. Thanks Rich!!! There are no more # intermediate SLIP addresses! Yay! POP name: TOAD TS0-TOAD.TLG.RG.NET, 140.174.2.27 net -------- destination --- port username, etc --------------------------- 140.174.72 140.174.72.253 s0 root@wired.com (Jonathan Steuer) 140.174.110 140.174.110.1 s1 (Robert Cohen) 140.174.42 140.174.42.254 s2 rdm@cfcl.com (Rich Morin) 140.174.70 140.174.70.254 s3 rrc@imat.myrddin.com (Richard Couture) 140.174.111 140.174.70.254 s3 rrc@imat.myrddin.com (Richard Couture) 140.174.84 140.174.84.1 s4 fen@imagine.comedia.com (Fen Labalme) 140.174.78 140.174.78.1 s5 rogerk@queernet.org (Roger Klorese) 140.174.79 140.174.79.1 s6 a2@ah.com (Arthur Abraham) 140.174.20 140.174.20.200 s7 ee@lever.com (Ed Elhauge) 140.174.69 140.174.69.1 s8 shibumi@joes.garage.com (Kenton Hoover) 140.174.95 140.174.95.1 s9 jonathan@cyborganic.com (Jonathan Steuer) # We have one remaining NOS box, NOS4. It seems reasonably reliable. The # rest of them have been >removed<. TS4-TOAD.TLG.RG.NET .2.73 (Router for the following members) --- domain ------ gate -- dest -- subnet -- port -- user -- name, etc fish.com .75.193 .75.194 .97.xx sl1 zen (Dan Farmer) tw.com .75.65 .75.66 .99.xx sl2 wadlow (Tom Wadlow) barn.com .76.1 .76.2 .71.xx sl3 wicinski (Tim Wicinski) POP name: PA-APT Location: University Ave, Palo Alto Router (56K termination): GW-PA-APT.TLG.RG.NET .23.253 On the local ethernet: --- domain ------ gate -- dest -- subnet -- user -- name, etc ecotone.toad.com .23.9 hugh (Hugh Daniel) horny.toad.com .23.10 hugh (Hugh Daniel) sendai.cygnus.com .23.12 rich (Rich Pixley) moria.cygnus.com .23.22 wilson (Jim Wilson) kithrup.com .23.40 sef (Sean Fagan) kithrup.cygnus.com alias for kithrup.com garth.kithrup.com .23.41 sef (Sean Fagan) thoris.cygnus.com .23.43 bill (Bill Cox) thuvia.cygnus.com .23.44 bill (Bill Cox) crashpad.cygnus.com .23.49 many (Hugh Daniel?) # This PortMaster is still using intermediate SLIP subnets for some connections; # since the whole PortMaster paradigm is simply not documented anywhere, I didn't # understand the best way to config it. Now I do. But there's a whole slew that # are still using them. Oh well. Live and learn. TS0-PA-APT.TLG.RG.NET .23.13 Router for the following members: .85.xx (Subnet allocated for SLIP/PPP use) --- domain ------ gate -- dest -- subnet -- port -- user -- name, etc dragoman.com .85.2 .85.1 .86.xx s1 mikep (Mike Park) wsrcc.com .85.66 .85.65 .88.xx s2 wolfgang (Wolfgang Rupprecht) tsoft.net .85.130 .85.129 .87.xx s3 mdurkin (Mike Durkin) traveler.com .85.194 .85.193 .89.xx s4 paul (Paul Goldstone) seiden.com .85.226 .85.225 .90.xx s5 mis (Mark Seiden) virtual.net .91.21 .91.00 s6 strata (M. Strata Rose) .85.98 .85.97 s7 skidpad.palo-alto..85.162 .85.163 .94.xx s8 root (Eric Murray) abitare.org .85.6 .85.5 .93.xx s9 (David Rosenthal) dogwood.com .85.10 .85.9 .96.xx s0 root (David Cornejo) tiw.com .85.14 .85.13 .98.xx s10 lonhyn (Lonhyn T. Jasinskyj) wskcc.com .85.18 .85.17 .83.xx s11 wsk (William S. Kaster) nvidia.com .85.22 .85.19 .105.xx s12 dshr (David Rosenthal) ; LEFT THE GARDEN firstfloor.com .85.98 .85.97 .92.xx s7 djc (David Cardinal) -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj@fido.wps.com Fri Jan 7 19:46:06 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA02878; Fri, 7 Jan 1994 19:46:02 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA14052; Fri, 7 Jan 94 19:47:11 -0800 Received: from hp.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA13082; Fri, 7 Jan 94 15:35:34 -0800 Received: from hpmidmrf.sr.hp.com by hp.com with SMTP (1.36.108.7/15.5+IOS 3.13) id AA11837; Fri, 7 Jan 1994 15:35:28 -0800 Received: by hpmidmrf.sr.hp.com (1.37.109.5/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA09688; Fri, 7 Jan 94 15:33:34 -0800 From: Mike Ferrara Message-Id: <9401072333.AA09688@hpmidmrf.sr.hp.com> Subject: internet connections To: tomj@wps.com Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 15:33:34 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 396 Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O Tom- Strata Rose pointed me to you to ask about internet connections. Can you help me. We're looking for a full time business connections at 14.4 SLIP/PPP, we (at this point) have no IP number, and no MX domain registration. Thanks. -mike -- Mike Ferrara M/S 4USS HP Microwave Instruments Div R&D 1400 Fountain Grove Pkwy Santa Rosa, CA 95403-1799 (707) 577-4479 mikef@sr.hp.com From tomj@fido.wps.com Fri Jan 7 19:49:38 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA02884; Fri, 7 Jan 1994 19:49:34 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA14096; Fri, 7 Jan 94 19:50:43 -0800 Received: from idiom.berkeley.ca.us by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA27633; Wed, 5 Jan 94 00:08:24 -0800 Received: from localhost (muir@localhost) by idiom.berkeley.ca.us (8.6.4/8.6.4) id AAA19550; Wed, 5 Jan 1994 00:08:06 -0800 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 00:08:06 -0800 From: David Muir Sharnoff Message-Id: <199401050808.AAA19550@idiom.berkeley.ca.us> To: tomj@fido.wps.com Subject: Is the "Penril URT-1-T-1 CSU/DSU" a T1 csu/dsu? Cc: pozar@kumr.lns.com Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O >From the model number, I think it might be... RFG Intech 1800-9INTECH sells them for $569. I know nothing more. -Dave From MAILER-DAEMON@fido.wps.com Mon Jan 10 11:16:47 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id LAA05951; Mon, 10 Jan 1994 11:16:44 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA28558; Mon, 10 Jan 94 11:04:46 -0800 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 11:04:46 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@wps.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown Message-Id: <9401101904.AA28558@wps.com> To: owner-garden-list@fido.wps.com Status: O ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 admin@cybermed.com (Pete Killcommons)... Host unknown 550 root@skidpad.palo-alto.ca.us... Host unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: from cygnus.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA28556; Mon, 10 Jan 94 11:04:46 -0800 Received: from uu3.psi.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17447; Mon, 10 Jan 94 11:04:43 PST Received: from seiden.com by uu3.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA05604 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 94 13:47:08 -0500 Received: by seiden.com (4.1/1.39) id AA11445; Mon, 10 Jan 94 10:39:34 PST From: mis@seiden.com (Mark Seiden) Message-Id: <9401101839.AA11445@seiden.com> Subject: group buy of ss1+ and ss2 with weitek To: private-garden@cygnus.com Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 10:39:33 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1518 we're reasonably close to a group buy of ss1+ equipment, though it could only help the price a bit if the size of the group were a bit larger and help my sanity a bit if it were more local to the bay area. i'm also looking into other suppliers who might have better prices, or conditions. since strata got quotes on ss1+, 8M, 424M, gx, 16" color (but no SunOS RTY) for around $1400 i've gotten a quote for a tradeup of a ss1+ with 8M to a ss2 with weitek power-up (which makes it as fast as a ss10) with 0M, floppy and 2 user RTU for $2500. the way this works is: you need some 4Mx9 memory, and to move your sbus boards and monitor over to the ss2. by the way, since the trade-in value of the ss1+ with 8M is only $400 many people may opt to pay $2900 and keep their 1+, which is then usable as a firewall machine or something... i've also found a source of used hi-res 19" mono displays for ~$300. these are the 19" mono displays that drive off a bw2 and give you like 16xx by 1280 resolution. once you've used one it's hard to do without the extra real estate. so if you're interested in any of these, express interest in your specific configuration within the next two days, and get your money together shortly (since it will a COD purchase to reduce the price even more). if you've already expressed interest: strata has forwarded to me the mail folder containing your past correspondence and i'll be in touch with you individually shortly. -- mark seiden, mis@seiden.com, 1-(415) 592 8559 (voice) From tomj Mon Jan 10 13:26:55 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA06084; Mon, 10 Jan 1994 13:26:54 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401102126.NAA06084@tlg.org> Subject: Re: this machine To: tomj@fnord.tlg.org (Tom Jennings) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 13:26:53 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <199401080135.RAA02725@tlg.org> from "Tom Jennings" at Jan 7, 94 05:35:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 372 Status: OR I think cron was the culprit, after we fixed all the disk sectors. It was acting weird anyways. > I killed cron yesterday, adn the machine's been up a whole day. It > wasn't workign right anyways, and *something* is wrong here, so it's as > likely a suspect as any. And I do suspect it. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Mon Jan 10 13:28:27 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA06070; Mon, 10 Jan 1994 13:25:54 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401102125.NAA06070@tlg.org> Subject: Re: internet connections To: mikef@hpmidmrf.sr.hp.com (Mike Ferrara) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 13:25:53 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401072333.AA09688@hpmidmrf.sr.hp.com> from "Mike Ferrara" at Jan 7, 94 03:33:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 5610 Status: O > Strata Rose pointed me to you to ask about internet connections. Can you help > me. We're looking for a full time business connections at 14.4 SLIP/PPP, we > (at this point) have no IP number, and no MX domain registration. Thanks. Enclosed is our brief brochure. The limiting factor will be phone lines from your site to ours. If you planned on using dialup lines, likely the price will be prohibitive. >From Santa Rosa it might be better to contact North Bay Net, jh@nbn.com (John Harkin), who is providing IP service (via TLG) north of SF. THE LITTLE GARDEN -- IP SERVICES The Little Garden (TLG) is a buyers club providing Internet connectivity in the greater San Francisco Bay Area. Our prices are the cost of connectivity plus our reasonably low overhead. In exchange for these low prices, we expect members to be somewhat self-sufficient technically. Many members become involved in the operation of TLG, though this is not necessary. We have Points of Presence (POPs) in San Francisco, Mountain View and Palo Alto. We have affiliates in other regions providing similar service. We are working on extending into other areas. TLG provides high-quality, reliable basic IP connectivity via full-time SLIP or PPP, secondary Domain Name Service (DNS), and in some cases, address space. We provide you with the help necessary to get online. We don't provide shell accounts, shared, part-time IP, etc. TLG places no restrictions on content or use of your connection, including reselling, "back door" hosts, etc. You are of course required to comply with any AUPs of any networks you communicate with or through and of course any applicable laws. Compliance with this is the member's responsibility. PRICES: 56K SERVICE PRICES: One-time installation fee (non-refundable) . . . . . . $400. Monthly connection fee . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $325. T1 SERVICE PRICES: One-time installation fee (non-refundable) . . . . . . $500. Monthly connection fee . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $800. Each member must provide their own CSU/DSU pair, and a 56K or T1 capable connection to their system (such as a router). Each member must also provide a standalone router at the TLG end or pay for a fraction of a multi-port router. OTHER HIGH-SPEED SERVICE: We are more than willing to work out fair prices on other types of connections at other speeds, such as 64Kb/s ISDN, 200Kb/s radio, etc. LOW-SPEED DIAL-UP SERVICE PRICES: TLG offers modem-based full-time IP using telephone lines and dialup-type modems. Additional information is provided near the end of this datasheet. Ask for further details. One-time installation fee (non-refundable) . . . . . . $250. Monthly connection fee . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $70. The following list gives estimates of goods and services that the member must cover. (Probable telco one-time installation fees, total . . $70. (Probable monthly telco charges, total . . . . . . . . $21. (Pair of v32bis/v42bis modems, retail . . . . . . . . $400. PAYMENT DETAILS: One-time installation fees, and member-supplied hardware must be provided before TLG initiates the connection. Members are invoiced for monthly connect fees three months at a time. Net 15 days, unless otherwise arranged. Initial billing starts with the first full week following the connection completion, or three weeks from start of the installation, whichever comes latest. POSSIBLE TLG/MEMBER RESOURCE SHARING: Under certain conditions, TLG may be willing to pay for the leased line to the customer's site, and a portion of the connect fee, if TLG can install a new POP at the member's site. Depending on various factors, this could significantly lower the cost to the member for IP services. As more sites are connected to this new POP, the member housing the POP would receive a portion of each additional connection fee, effectively paying for bandwidth used. Contact information: The Little Garden PO Box 410923 San Francisco CA 94141-0923 415-487-1902 info@tlg.org Associated Networks: Santa Cruz -- Santa Cruz Community Internet (scruz-net) 903 Pacific Ave. #203-A Santa Cruz, CA 95060 (408) 457-5050 info@scruz.net Santa Cruz Community Internet serves the entirety of Santa Cruz County, CA. scruz-net offers the following TCP/IP services: o medium speed 56kb and 64kb o leased line and frame relay o ISDN and centrex IS service at 64kb or 128kb o 14.4kb leased line or 14.4kb centrex o 14.4kb dial-up SLIP and PPP scruz-net offers the following application services: o news and mail forwarding o DNS registration and nameservice o FTP archive and gopher server Marin, Sonoma, and Mendocino Counties -- North Bay Network 20 Minor Court San Rafael, CA 94903 (415) 472-1600 Email: info@nbn.com Oregon, southern Washington state -- RAINet 9501 SW Westhaven Portland, OR 97225 (503) 297-8820 admin@rain.com RAINet offers the following TCP/IP services: o medium speed 56kb and 64kb o leased line and frame relay o 14.4kb leased line o 14.4kb dial-up SLIP and PPP RAINet offers the following application services: o news and mail forwarding o DNS registration and nameservice o UNIX shell accounts o POP mail accounts and POP serial dialup o dialup and PPP/SLIP gopher clients When you are in RAINet's geographic area (Oregon and Southern Washington), RAINet offers free access to customers of other RGnet consortium networks, e.g. The Little Garden. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From admin@tlg.org Mon Jan 10 13:50:34 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA06238; Mon, 10 Jan 1994 13:50:28 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401102150.NAA06238@tlg.org> Subject: New, IMPROVED! TLG Contact list To: garden-list Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 13:50:27 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 5688 Status: OR Thanks everyone for all the corrections! There were enough that I'll simply reissue it... The Little Garden Network: Contacts List, 10 January, 1994 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- info@tlg.org Gets you an automatic response of our brief brochure, plus the message gets forwarded to... admin@tlg.org Me, Pozar and Randy. We answer questions, and it's a good place to send problem reports etc. # Mailing lists garden-list@tlg.org Sends mail to all TLG members in the Contact list. the-little-garden@cygnus.com Still works private-garden@cygnus.com Still works ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- # POP:SF North Bay Network Inc, John Harkin jh@nbn.com (John Harkin). . . . . . . . . . . 415-472-1600 Late Night Software, Tim Pozar pozar@kumr.lns.com (Tim Pozar). . . . . . . . . . . 415 695 7727 h Zocalo Engineering, Bill Woodcock woody@zocalo.com (Bill Woodcock) . . . . . . . . . 510 540 8000 Nexsys Electronics Inc, Pete Killcommons M.D. admin@cybermed.com (Pete Killcommons) . . . . . . . 415-541-9980 David Muir Sharnoff muir@idiom.berkeley.ca.us (David Muir Sharnoff) . . 510 644 0441 h Eric Theise verve@well.sf.ca.us (Eric Theise) . . . . . . . . . 415 648 0161 Vitadata, Lee Jensen lee@bio.com (Lee Jensen) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 510 237-6113 World Power Systems, Tom Jennings tomj@fido.wps.com (Tom Jennings). . . . . . . . . . 415 552 8156 h # POP:TOAD John Gilmore gnu@toad.com (John Gilmore) . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 221 6524 sf Joe's Garage, Kenton A. Hoover shibumi@joes.garage.com (Kenton A. Hoover) . . . . 415 957 3614 shibumi@net.bio.net (Kenton A. Hoover). . . . . . . 415 962 7323 Joe's Garage, Kira Siegel kira@lsil.com (Kira Siegel) . . . . . . . . . . . 408 433 6904 Canta Forda Computer Laboratory, Rich Morin rdm@cfcl.com (Rich Morin) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 873 7842,41 Lever Industries, Ed Elhauge ee@lever.com (Ed Elhauge) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3141 w Imagine That, Richard Couture rrc@myrddin.imat.com (Richard Couture). . . . . . . 415 621 1908 h Wired Magazine, Andrew Waegel andrew@wired.com (Andrew Waegel) . . . . . . . . . 415 904 6459 QueerNet, Roger Klorese rogerk@queernet.org (Roger Klorese) . . . . . . . . 415 255 2733 h A-Squared, Arthur Abraham a2@cryptoad.ah.com (Arthur Abraham) . . . . . . . . 510 339 1748 Dan Farmer zen@fish.com (Dan Farmer) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 431 8239 Information Enterprises, Tom Wadlow wadlow@tw.com (Tom Wadlow). . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 864 1554 Broadcatch Technology, Fen Labalme fen@comedia.com (Fen Labalme) . . . . . . . . . . . 415 731 1174 Barn Communications, Tim Wicinski wicinski@barn.com (Tim Wicinski). . . . . . . . . . 415-467-9136 Cyborganic Media, Jonathan Steuer Jonathan@cyborganic.com (Jonathan Steuer) . . . . . 415-255-1120 Robert Cohen robc@lavender.com (Robert Cohen) . . . . . . . . . 415-553-4033 # PA ;list: garden-pa-list Hugh Daniel hugh@toad.com (Hugh Daniel) . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 473 0669 h Rich Pixley rich@sendai.cygnus.com (Rich Pixley). . . . . . . . 415 903 1400 w Jim Wilson wilson@moria.cygnus.com (Jim Wilson). . . . . . . . 415 329 8321 h Sean Fagan sef@kithrup.com (Sean Fagan). . . . . . . . . . . . Bill Cox bill@cygnus.com (Bill Cox) . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 321 0579 h Hoopy Froods, Inc, Michael Park mikep@dragoman.com (Michael Park) . . . . . . . . . 415 340 9770 h . . . . . . . . . 415 599 3012 w TSoft BBS & Public Unix, Mike Durkin mdurkin@tsoft.net (Mike Durkin) . . . . . . . . . . 805 546 8114 h Paul Goldstone paul@traveler.com (Paul Goldstone) . . . . . . . . 415 365 9373 h WS Rupprecht Consulting, Wolfgang Rupprecht wolfgang@wsrcc.com (Wolfgang Rupprecht) . . . . . . 510 659 9757 h Seiden and Associates, Mark Seiden mis@seiden.com (Mark Seiden) . . . . . . . . . . . 415 592 8559 h Virtual City, M. Strata Rose strata@virtual-city.virtual.net (M. Strata Rose) . 415 327 6027 h David S.H. Rosenthal dshr@abitare.org (David S.H. Rosenthal) . . . . . . 415 323 5285 Eric Murray root@skidpad.palo-alto.ca.us (Eric Murray) . . . . 415 493 8107 Dogwood Media, David Cornejo root@dogwood.com (David Cornejo) . . . . . . . . . 510 713 2667 TIW Systems Inc, Lonhyn T. Jasinskyj lonhyn@tiw.com (Lonhyn T. Jasinskyj) . . . . . . . 408 734 3900 x327 NVidia Corp, David S.H. Rosenthal dshr@NVidia.COM (David S.H. Rosenthal) . . . . . . 408 720 6106 #POP: CYGNUS Cygnus Support, John Gilmore gnu@cygnus.com (John Gilmore) . . . . . . . . . . . 415 903 1418 mv Cygnus Support, Stu Grossman grossman@cygnus.com (Stu Grossman) . . . . . . . . 415 903 1400 Cygnus Support, Jean Marie Diaz ambar@cygnus.com (Jean Marie Diaz) . . . . . . . . 415 903 1400 Cygnus Support, Brian Smith brian@cygnus.com (Brian Smith) . . . . . . . . . . 415 903 1425 MSM Co, Greg Merrell postmaster@msm.com (Greg Merrell) . . . . . . . . . 408 253 2290 Arasmith Engineering, Bob Arasmith bob@arasmith.com (Bob Arasmith) . . . . . . . . . . 408 749 0501 Sunnyside Computing Inc, Al Whaley Al@Sunnyside.COM (Al Whaley). . . . . . . . . . . . 415 322 5411 Santa Cruz Community Internet, Qarin Von Brink, Matthew Kaufman admin@scruz.net . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 408 457 5050 Everest Technology Inc, Robert Nielsen rnielsen@everest.com (Robert Nielsen) . . . . . . . 415 326 2130 Pacific Software, Tom Lipkis tal@pss.com (Tom Lipkis) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 856-4289 -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From dnc@netcom.com Tue Jan 11 06:13:21 1994 Received: from mail.netcom.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id GAA07071; Tue, 11 Jan 1994 06:13:20 -0800 Received: from localhost by mail.netcom.com (8.6.4/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id GAA15879; Tue, 11 Jan 1994 06:16:52 -0800 From: dnc@netcom.com (David Cornejo) Message-Id: <199401111416.GAA15879@mail.netcom.com> Subject: problems connecting To: admin@tlg.org Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 06:16:52 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 377 Status: O Howdy, I can't seem to get my modem in Palo Alto to answer since about 9:30ish last night - would it be possible for someone to take a quick peek at it and see if its either given up the ghost or become disconnected somehow from power or phone? (I believe I'm on port 0 of the PortMaster, and the modem is a Telebit QBlazer) Thanks! dave cornejo (normally dave@dogwood.com) From teamnet@netcom.com Tue Jan 11 11:14:50 1994 Received: from mail.netcom.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id LAA07274; Tue, 11 Jan 1994 11:14:43 -0800 Received: from [192.187.167.41] by mail.netcom.com (8.6.4/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id LAA26236; Tue, 11 Jan 1994 11:18:19 -0800 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 11:18:19 -0800 Message-Id: <199401111918.LAA26236@mail.netcom.com> To: info@tlg.org From: teamnet@netcom.com (Michael Lipson) X-Sender: teamnet@netcom5.netcom.com (Unverified) Subject: info request Status: O please send me information, press releases, and prices for your internet coop. From m@BlueRose.com Tue Jan 11 12:04:23 1994 Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA07323; Tue, 11 Jan 1994 12:04:16 -0800 Received: from localhost by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.4/SMI-4.1) id MAA00644; Tue, 11 Jan 1994 12:05:38 -0800 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 12:04:24 -0800 From: m@BlueRose.com (M Carling) Received: by BlueRose.com (NX5.67d/3.2.083191-Blue Rose Systems) id AA04526; Tue, 11 Jan 94 12:04:24 -0800 Message-Id: <9401112004.AA04526@BlueRose.com> Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.100.RR) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.100.RR) To: info@tlg.org Subject: please send info Status: O From teamnet@netcom.com Tue Jan 11 12:14:02 1994 Received: from mail.netcom.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA07368; Tue, 11 Jan 1994 12:14:00 -0800 Received: from [192.187.167.41] by mail.netcom.com (8.6.4/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id MAA04074; Tue, 11 Jan 1994 12:17:35 -0800 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 12:17:35 -0800 Message-Id: <199401112017.MAA04074@mail.netcom.com> To: Admin@tlg.org From: teamnet@netcom.com (Michael Lipson) Subject: ISDN & Nob Hill POP Status: O I am interested in ISDN, and wondered what you might be offering in this area. As for Resource Sharing, I have a building on solid bedrock atop Nob Hill in SF that might be a good location for a POP. The roof has plenty of room for a dish or an antenna, if you are interested in any microwave or radio links. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Michael Lipson teamnet@netcom.com TeamNet Technologies AppleLink: TEAMNET 1282 California Street Voice: 415/474-9000 San Francisco, CA 94109 Fax: 415/474-9075 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From tomj Tue Jan 11 12:14:32 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA07374; Tue, 11 Jan 1994 12:14:27 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401112014.MAA07374@tlg.org> Subject: Re: problems connecting To: dnc@netcom.com (David Cornejo) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 12:14:26 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <199401111416.GAA15879@mail.netcom.com> from "David Cornejo" at Jan 11, 94 06:16:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 716 Status: O > I can't seem to get my modem in Palo Alto to answer since about 9:30ish > last night - would it be possible for someone to take a quick peek at > it and see if its either given up the ghost or become disconnected > somehow from power or phone? (I believe I'm on port 0 of the PortMaster, > and the modem is a Telebit QBlazer) I reset your port there. It looks like there was a power failure, because the idle ports (of which there were a half dozen) all had 0 byte counts... If it doesn't come up, let me know. We can probably get Hugh to power cycle it, or worst case when Bill gets home tonight (he livces at 814) he can do it. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj@fido.wps.com Tue Jan 11 21:26:23 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id VAA08076; Tue, 11 Jan 1994 21:26:20 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA05006; Tue, 11 Jan 94 21:29:33 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA02706; Tue, 11 Jan 94 13:39:18 -0800 Received: by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00347; Tue, 11 Jan 94 13:39:16 PST Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 13:39:16 PST From: grossman@cygnus.com (Stu Grossman) Message-Id: <9401112139.AA00347@cygnus.com> To: tomj@wps.com Cc: gnu@cygnus.com Subject: a 56K fish Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O Looks like he's a good catch. I've told him to contact you. His company is in our complex. They want to put in a 56k connection to the MV POP. We have two ports free on the Livingston here. Do we sell part of the router to him? Stu >From paul@taniwha.com Tue Jan 11 11:51:10 1994 Return-Path: Received: from taniwha.com (taniwha.taniwha.com) by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26600; Tue, 11 Jan 94 11:51:06 PST Received: by taniwha.com (5.54/25-eef) id AA03338; Tue, 11 Jan 94 12:01:55 PST Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 12:01:55 PST From: Paul Campbell Message-Id: <9401112001.AA03338@taniwha.com> To: grossman@cygnus.com Subject: Xenon TLG connections .... Hi, I'm the guy who stopped by a couple of weeks ago to talk about getting our company connected - we're in the same building complex .... I'm just mailing you to tell you that we are still very interested .... we're just plodding along trying to get everything together .... we have most of our stuff on order and we'll probably be ready to go in a week or two. Trying to make the connection between the buildings cheaply has been a problem .... the two halves of the complex (on either side of the Deli) seem to have seperate PacBell boxes, but there is a seperate unused wire between your building and the one behind us - and this building shares a PacBell box with us ..... we haven't worked out all the kinks here yet but we should know what we will be doing very soon. Do you have a phone number for Livingston (the portmaster people)? Paul Campbell, Xenon PS: If you need to contact me directly I can be reached at (510)540-5557 (home) on Tue/Fris and at Xenon on Mon/Wed/Thu - Paul From tomj@fido.wps.com Tue Jan 11 21:26:32 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id VAA08080; Tue, 11 Jan 1994 21:26:30 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA05013; Tue, 11 Jan 94 21:29:43 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA03059; Tue, 11 Jan 94 15:56:34 -0800 Received: from localhost.cygnus.com (cygnus.com) by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22298; Tue, 11 Jan 94 15:56:32 PST Message-Id: <9401112356.AA22298@cygnus.com> To: grossman@cygnus.com Cc: tomj@wps.com, gnu@cygnus.com Subject: Re: a 56K fish In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 Jan 1994 13:39:16 PST." <9401112139.AA00347@cygnus.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 15:56:31 -0800 From: John Gilmore Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O Is this the Paul Campbell who used to work at Unisoft and did a lot of the Apple A/UX port? Taniwha, his hostname, seems to ring a bell. John From root@dsnet.com Tue Jan 11 21:51:30 1994 Received: from dsnet.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id VAA08103; Tue, 11 Jan 1994 21:51:25 -0800 Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by dsnet.com (8.6.4/8.3) id VAA09391; Tue, 11 Jan 1994 21:55:29 -0800 From: SuperUser Message-Id: <199401120555.VAA09391@dsnet.com> Subject: secondary nameserver update To: admin@tlg.org Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 21:55:28 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 462 Status: O Any idea why I would get the following error when starting up named? Jan 11 12:53:29 dsnet named[8321]: restarted Jan 11 12:53:33 dsnet named-xfer[8323]: bad response to SOA query from 147.28.0.39, zone rip.psg.com: rcode 0, aa 0, ancount 0, aucount 2 Jan 11 12:53:33 dsnet named[8322]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone rip.psg.com unreachable I'm running FreeBSD release 1.0. Also, does TLG have, or do you know of, a free, or low-cost, NNTP/INN server? From admin@tlg.org Wed Jan 12 07:44:15 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id HAA08526; Wed, 12 Jan 1994 07:43:51 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA08452; Wed, 12 Jan 94 10:47:00 -0500 Received: from openlink.openlink.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22049; Wed, 12 Jan 94 07:46:52 PST Received: from everest.com ([140.174.104.1]) by openlink.openlink.com with SMTP id AA16122 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 12 Jan 1994 07:47:48 -0800 Received: by everest.com (NX5.67c/NeXT-1.0+/Anterior) id AA00745; Wed, 12 Jan 94 07:46:08 -0800 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 07:46:08 -0800 From: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen) Message-Id: <9401121546.AA00745@everest.com> Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.87.1) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.87.1) To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Sendmail Presentation Cc: av@codeworks.com Status: O A FREE DOUBLE PRESENTATION AT COMPUTER LITERACY BOOKSHOP ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ERIC ALLMAN: THE FUTURE OF SENDMAIL BRYAN COSTALES: WHY USE SENDMAIL? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric Allman, the creator of sendmail describes various directions v8 sendmail may evolve over the next year. He may also reveal preliminary thoughts about v9 sendmail. In addition to creating sendmail and co-authoring the new "sendmail" book, Allman wrote the BSD utilities tset, trek, syslog, vacation and the -me macros. He is the Lead Programmer on the Mammoth Project at UC Berkeley. Previously, he was the Chief Programmer on the INGRES database management project. Bryan Costales, the co-author of O'Reilly's new "sendmail" book, contrasts a few popular alternatives to sendmail, including zmailer and Smail 3.0. The bias will be toward v8 sendmail. Costales is System Manager at the International Computer Science Institute in Berkeley. He has also written "C from A to Z" and "Unix Communications". Date: Tuesday, January 25th, 1994 Time: 6:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. Location: Computer Literacy Bookshop 2590 North First Street (at Trimble) San Jose (408) 435-1118 Stay tuned. There are more events to come. Events at our stores are always free. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you would like to receive e-mail announcements for upcoming store events, simply write to: events_ca-request@clbooks.com (for events held at our California stores) events_va-request@clbooks.com (for events held at our Virginia store) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you have signed up for email announcements but have not received any, or wish to be removed from this list, please contact us. We add names by request only. Computer Literacy Bookshops, Inc. Cherrie C. Chiu eventinfo_ca@clbooks.com (408) 435-5015 x116 From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Jan 12 08:01:20 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id IAA08527; Wed, 12 Jan 1994 07:43:58 -0800 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 07:43:58 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Connection timed out during client DATA 250 with meerkat.tiw.com. Message-Id: <199401121543.IAA08527@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-sf-list (hard error -- address deleted) :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-toad-list (hard error -- address deleted) :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-toad-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 501 admin@cybermed.com (Pete Killcommons)... 550 Host unknown (Name server: host not found) 501 a2@ah.com (Arthur Abraham),hughes@ah.com (Eric Hughes)... 550 Host unknown (Name server: no data known for name) ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id HAA08526; Wed, 12 Jan 1994 07:43:51 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA08452; Wed, 12 Jan 94 10:47:00 -0500 Received: from openlink.openlink.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22049; Wed, 12 Jan 94 07:46:52 PST Received: from everest.com ([140.174.104.1]) by openlink.openlink.com with SMTP id AA16122 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 12 Jan 1994 07:47:48 -0800 Received: by everest.com (NX5.67c/NeXT-1.0+/Anterior) id AA00745; Wed, 12 Jan 94 07:46:08 -0800 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 07:46:08 -0800 From: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen) Message-Id: <9401121546.AA00745@everest.com> Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.87.1) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.87.1) To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Sendmail Presentation Cc: av@codeworks.com A FREE DOUBLE PRESENTATION AT COMPUTER LITERACY BOOKSHOP ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ERIC ALLMAN: THE FUTURE OF SENDMAIL BRYAN COSTALES: WHY USE SENDMAIL? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric Allman, the creator of sendmail describes various directions v8 sendmail may evolve over the next year. He may also reveal preliminary thoughts about v9 sendmail. In addition to creating sendmail and co-authoring the new "sendmail" book, Allman wrote the BSD utilities tset, trek, syslog, vacation and the -me macros. He is the Lead Programmer on the Mammoth Project at UC Berkeley. Previously, he was the Chief Programmer on the INGRES database management project. Bryan Costales, the co-author of O'Reilly's new "sendmail" book, contrasts a few popular alternatives to sendmail, including zmailer and Smail 3.0. The bias will be toward v8 sendmail. Costales is System Manager at the International Computer Science Institute in Berkeley. He has also written "C from A to Z" and "Unix Communications". Date: Tuesday, January 25th, 1994 Time: 6:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. Location: Computer Literacy Bookshop 2590 North First Street (at Trimble) San Jose (408) 435-1118 Stay tuned. There are more events to come. Events at our stores are always free. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you would like to receive e-mail announcements for upcoming store events, simply write to: events_ca-request@clbooks.com (for events held at our California stores) events_va-request@clbooks.com (for events held at our Virginia store) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you have signed up for email announcements but have not received any, or wish to be removed from this list, please contact us. We add names by request only. Computer Literacy Bookshops, Inc. Cherrie C. Chiu eventinfo_ca@clbooks.com (408) 435-5015 x116 From admin@tlg.org Wed Jan 12 11:30:58 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id LAA08725; Wed, 12 Jan 1994 11:30:40 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA02209; Wed, 12 Jan 94 14:34:10 -0500 Received: from lever.lever.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27608; Wed, 12 Jan 94 11:33:48 PST Received: by lever.lever.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.7) id ; Wed, 12 Jan 94 11:29 PST Message-Id: To: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen) Cc: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Re: your number In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 12 Jan 1994 10:28:10 PST." <9401121828.AA00912@everest.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 11:28:59 -0800 From: Edward Elhauge Status: O In message <9401121828.AA00912@everest.com>, Robert D. Nielsen writes: >I suspect that your telephone number is a little longer than 3141. What is it >? > >Lever Industries, Ed Elhauge > ee@lever.com (Ed Elhauge) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3141 w Right you are. I've been too busy to answer more important posts so I let it ride: ee@lever.com (Ed Elhauge) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 415-550-6789 x3141 w -- Edward Elhauge You will eat (you will eat), bye & bye (bye & bye) Lever Industries In that glorious land above the sky (way up high) San Francisco Work & pray (work & pray), live on hay, (live on hay) ee@lever.com You'll get pie in the sky when you die (that's a lie) -- Joe Hill - Sung to "In the Sweet Bye & Bye" From tomj Wed Jan 12 13:42:28 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA08838; Wed, 12 Jan 1994 13:42:17 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401122142.NAA08838@tlg.org> Subject: Re: secondary nameserver update To: root@dsnet.com (SuperUser) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 13:42:16 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <199401120555.VAA09391@dsnet.com> from "SuperUser" at Jan 11, 94 09:55:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1211 Status: O > Any idea why I would get the following error when starting up named? > > Jan 11 12:53:29 dsnet named[8321]: restarted > Jan 11 12:53:33 dsnet named-xfer[8323]: bad response to SOA query from > 147.28.0.39, zone rip.psg.com: rcode 0, aa 0, ancount 0, aucount 2 > Jan 11 12:53:33 dsnet named[8322]: zoneref: Masters for secondary zone > rip.psg.com unreachable You shouldn't be referencing rip.psg.com... it is YOUR secondary, ie. you run the primary data base; rip.psg.com sucks down a copy of your PRIMARY data and holds it, without further cooperation from you, as SECONDARY data. Likely you have it listed in your nakmed.boot file. Remove it. The only reference you should ha veto it is on your database files (eg. /etc/namedb/dsnet.com or whatever you've called it), where you list: IN NS host.DSNET.COM. ;primary (cuz it's first!) IN NS RIP.PSG.COM. ;sec. (cuz it's (n > 1)th! > Also, does TLG have, or do you know of, a free, or low-cost, NNTP/INN > server? No, but if we did, it would be popular!!! The problem is basically, no one has 500-1000mb disks available. If we had big disks, we'd have news servers. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From admin@tlg.org Wed Jan 12 14:56:11 1994 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA08912; Wed, 12 Jan 1994 14:56:07 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA17901; Wed, 12 Jan 94 17:59:37 -0500 Received: from lever.lever.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17785; Wed, 12 Jan 94 14:58:02 PST Received: by lever.lever.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.7) id ; Wed, 12 Jan 94 14:53 PST Message-Id: To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Re: Tom's thoughts on TLG [WAS: TLG Jan 94 news...] In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jan 1994 17:28:44 PST." <199401080128.RAA02672@tlg.org> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 14:53:19 -0800 From: Edward Elhauge Status: O In message <199401080128.RAA02672@tlg.org>, Tom Jennings writes: >The discourse this past week in this list was interesting, and a >bit alarming to me. > >Plainly stated, we are not a cooperative, and have never been. As >much as the word was used in '93, there was never really any signs >of cooperative activity. I mean in the formal sense of "cooperative", >not that we don't work together... At first before Tom was recruited we were more like diners splitting the bill. Some people only came for a drink so the bigger consumers didn't charge them the cover charge. >I have worked with two major cooperative groups; the '89 Anarchist >Gathering, and Nomenus, the Radical Faerie corporation that owns >and operates 80 acres of land in Oregon as a sanctuary. [...] >Nomenus is more >interesting, and pointful, in that they have a 501(c)3 corp. that >owns substantial property; they take their collective process >seriously. All ~250 members of Nomenus are *board members*! And >they work by full consensus, mainly through groups of smaller >committees, and any one person can block. > >Collectives move slooowly. It took Nomenus a *year* to build a >bridge. They took *everything* into account. It was frustrating. Until >it was done vehicles could not enter the land during rainy season. >Looking back over the last five or so years of decisions, they've >made very few bad ones. The price: as Ed says, slower, or rasher, >inexperienced members create distractions and make-work for other >members. The result: a sense of community, the ability to affect >the outcome. Requirement: a basic vision and path, a closely knit >core group to start, and the ability to bring more people into your >vision. Drawbacks: it attracts process-junkies and those able to >hold out win. I'd say that for people interested in collective projects, the models presented are straw dogs. Unless one is ideologically committed to consensus process it is a sure fire way to be socially ineffectual. (Which in my opinion is the only reason to start a collective to begin with.) I have some special insight into the Nomenus saga in that I was the catalyst for a major change in how it was run. It started off as a typical Lords-of-the-Earth type non-profit, with a self-appointed board of directors and a set of rules that they could change at will. They would have meetings where they would "take input", ask for our TRUST and ask for money but offer no real decision making ability for the participants. After I was hit up for money a few times and when it seemed that there was a realistic piece of land to buy; I put forth my own proposal for a radical restructuring of Nomenus. My proposal would have been to make it a direct-democracy accountable to the members; but knowing the fairies would never agree to a democratic process I proposed a try consensus two times and then vote. Not having the charisma to pull this off, nevertheless a process was started that opened up the process and arrived at the 250 person consensus meetings, and the interim consensus councils. If you don't insist on the [essentially religious] consensus process and opt for a democratic process you achieve power sharing in a more sensible way and avoid some of the problems that Tom implies are inherent in collectives per se. BTW, the 250 members of the board of directors was just a creative way to get around the rules for non-profits. The STATE tries to create rules that encourage top-down organizations with a powerless membership base. By making everyone a member of the board of directors, after signing a paper to uphold our statement of purpose, they were legally entitled to equal say. If we had made the power situation based on trust eventually some on the board of directors would have felt self-righteous enough to do what they though was right rather than what the members thought was right [particularly with Radical Faeiries and their "divine" inspiration]. [...] >We have an environment where, a year to make a decision means a constantly >moving target. We have >And I can tell you for fact, it's too late now anyways. You don't >"become" a coop, that's fantasy. At our core is *money* dammit, >plain old money. * I sort of agree with Tom with respect to the basic service. Perhaps there would be no point to a collective. But maybe there is a way to form collectives within TLG to provide supplementary services. In particular I am paying $70 per month to UUNET to get a complete News feed. I would encourage other people who are paying for their News feed to contact me and see if we can pool our resources to reduce our costs. (I know that if you try hard you can get a free News feed, but the ones that I have been able to get haven't been as reliable as the one I can get from UUNET.) > >IFF net connections were cheap and easy, we wouldn't be doing any >of this. Even in 1990, you could get a net connection. It simply >cost too much! TLG did not pre-exist our individual needs for >networking, though many of us have similar or compatible goals. >We came together around access and low-cost first, each other >secondarily, if at all. Them's the facks, for the most part, and >not in the slightest a complaint or liability. >More disturbing to me, personally, is the almost-offhand way that >more than one person tossed off, "someone might want to get paid" >for supporting TLG's infrastructure. Hello! >Basically, when I started doing this, we had very vague plans of >expanding TLG (vague in detail). In Dec93 I was making $420/mo, >around Jun93, $600?/mo. I started out with a DOS machine, and out >of pocket built a unix machine and got on the net directly (about >Feb 93). The work was about 20hrs/week. It was recognized that the >pay was shitty, but the work was laissez-faire, and I was on the >net. I agree that sooner or later we have to pay for all the hours Tom spends. I am not asking for a free ride. It's just that if other members demand higher levels of service than I need and we are splitting the bill evenly I'll eventually wind up paying more than the $70/month that I pay now. Also right now Tom J. is working at this-is-a-low-key-bunch-of-people rates, if the attitude of enough members is to jump down his throat any time there is an hour outage, even on a weekend night, he might charge this-is-a-bunch-of-assholes rates. I try to only call him when I am at wits end or don't known the status of the net, even then I try to be as brief as possible. Unless we encourage that sort of culture our costs are bound to rise uncontrollably. >Back to money (as if we ever left it). >Back to Aug93, when the TLG members said "go" and we committed to >building TLG. My little part time almost-a-job leaped into a >more-than-full-time job. I DID NOT AND DO NOT WANT A REAL JOB. If >I wanted one, I have enough talents to get one, thank you. Rather, >I value other things. >The naive intent back then was, there will be this startup hassle, >lasting months, then it will subside. Duh! It will NOT subside! >Now I have a job! My salary leaped from about $800 (it was proportional >to the number of members) to a fixed $1000 about Oct93, where it >is now. It was left, even more vaguely than the growth plans, that >I would be compensated somehow in the future. >To be plain and simple after these hundred lines -- yes, I flatly >expect to be paid for this! What on *earth* possible motive could >I have? >In summer-93, we envisioned ourselves, as far as I can tell, in a >pretty relaxed manner, downtime was viewed for the most part >casually, on the smaller branches anyways (which was sensible >considering some of the hardware we were using then!) I handled >about $1000/mo gross, most of which went to my salary, but I also >bought NOS boxen, cables, outlet strips, generated documentation >and proceedures, etc. All of the actual cost of the backbone was >hidden, paid for by Cygnus, Gilmore, Jim Wilson, TIS, and some of >the original TLG members. >My guess is, all this may surprise or alarm older TLG members, but >newer ones, say connected after Sep93, will be alarmed in the other >direction, that we're not just assuming we're a profit-making >business! Just my guess. >And last, just thought I'd reiterate some things, that I don't >consider this a business to be pumped for profit, that some of us >still see TLG as a socially and politically signifigant network >provider, pushing the state of things not by competing head-on, >but by setting precedent, such as the resell-ability and no ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ >restrictions on use. Though if we don't get explicit on THAT as ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >well I can easily see it getting lost in the haze of the future. No restriction on resell-ability is a major plus in TLG, most vendors seem to be fairly relaxed about "restrictions on use", although I assume that if you wanted to do something controversial, such as anonymous, encrypting remailers, they might pull the plug on you. Why would this form of contract be "lost in the haze of the future"? The core group would have to choose to do this, it won't happen like a volcanic eruption. How could we get better assurances that this won't happen, other than your stated intent? * I would suggest that the core group identify themselves as such and delegate to one of its members the responsibility of liaison to the TLG members for those decisions that don't fall under existing policy. Recently I had the unfortunate experience of negotiating a deal with one member of the core group. After I thought I had concluded the deal it turned out that that individual didn't have the authority to decide that by themselves and the deal was canceled. In all that, the impression other people had was that I was trying to sneak something through, which was not my intent. The whole situation was unfair to me, the person I negotiated with and uncomfortable to everyone else; a lose-lose situation. My suggestion would clarify those situations. * Let's form coops or collectives within TLG. Let's run TLG itself like a business. -- Edward Elhauge You will eat (you will eat), bye & bye (bye & bye) Lever Industries In that glorious land above the sky (way up high) San Francisco Work & pray (work & pray), live on hay, (live on hay) ee@lever.com You'll get pie in the sky when you die (that's a lie) -- Joe Hill - Sung to "In the Sweet Bye & Bye" From tomj@fido.wps.com Wed Jan 12 18:44:14 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA09132; Wed, 12 Jan 1994 18:44:06 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA00186; Wed, 12 Jan 94 18:47:44 -0800 Received: from Sun.COM by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA01868; Wed, 12 Jan 94 17:32:05 -0800 Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (zigzag.Eng.Sun.COM) by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14734; Wed, 12 Jan 94 17:32:02 PST Received: from bcci.Eng.Sun.COM by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13115; Wed, 12 Jan 94 17:30:16 PST Received: by bcci.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA06336; Wed, 12 Jan 1994 17:32:20 +0800 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 17:32:20 +0800 From: hooper@bcci.Eng.Sun.COM (phil hooper) Message-Id: <9401130132.AA06336@bcci.Eng.Sun.COM> To: tomj@wps.com Subject: inet in the back bedroom X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 469 Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O I've been thinking of putting up an internet drop, most likely t1, to pursue some commercial interests. In addition, I'd like to be able to offer slip/ppp connections to people with minimal markup, and I've heard you may be involved with setting up a network and have quite a bit of background information on costs for hardware and services. location is santa clara. any info would be appreciated. thanks, phil pjh@netcom.com hooper@bcci.eng.sun.com (for now) From admin@tlg.org Wed Jan 12 19:04:05 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA09161; Wed, 12 Jan 1994 19:03:57 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA11042; Wed, 12 Jan 94 22:07:39 -0500 Received: from hp.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23232; Wed, 12 Jan 94 19:07:33 PST Received: from hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com by hp.com with SMTP (1.36.108.7/15.5+IOS 3.13) id AA04366; Wed, 12 Jan 1994 19:07:32 -0800 Received: by hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com (1.37.187.4/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA19122; Wed, 12 Jan 94 19:03:38 -0800 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 19:03:38 -0800 From: "William S. Kaster" Message-Id: <9401130303.AA19122@hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com> To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com In-Reply-To: Edward Elhauge's message of Wed, 12 Jan 1994 14:53:19 -0800 Subject: Tom's thoughts on TLG [WAS: TLG Jan 94 news...] Status: O Hello, My name is Bill Kaster and I've been connected through TLG for about 2 months. I've just this week made it onto the distribution list. And I have just read Ed's reply to Tom's remarks (first discussion message I have received over the list.) I've been impressed with the reliability of the net. It seems that PG&E is to blame for most every failure. I've been using the net mostly, of all things, for games. I'm an Empire player and a netrek player. Both of these require long stretches in front of the computer. I'm providing an ftp site for a group tape drive purchase I'm coordinating (SCIS-2 2GB DAT ~$400). I read news. It is wonderful, while away from home, to be able to transfer files from home to somewhere else. Mosaic is awesome. In short, I am a net addict. When I call Tom about the net being down, I certainly hope it isn't perceived as ``jumping down his throat'' and more of ``hey, did you know...'' Low cost is important to me. The ``cooperative'' nature of this venture was clearly stated in terms of money. More people = costs go down OR service goes up. Simple. I'm also not surprised that TLG may be having growing pains. It is important that we as a group have a similar idea of where this is going. Now keep in mind that I've only seen the one message, so I am moving into some possibly dangerous waters. In my opinion, TLG should be run in a business-like manner, but not for profit. Tom getting a stipend does not make this ``for profit''. ``For profit'' to me means selling as little as possible for as much as possible. Clearly, this does not apply to TLG. For example, if suddenly there was excess cash (yeah, right ;-) ) then costs should go down or service should go up. ``Service going up'' means making sure Tom is comfortable with the amount of work/amount of money involved. Excess cash does not mean ``dividend for core group''. (No one said that, I'm just trying to illustrate my point.) I'm inferring that Tom is getting swamped by TLG. If this is so, then we should be looking at ways to reduce the workload. Perhaps hiring someone to be on call is in order. Hiring someone doesn't automatically make this ``for profit'' either. Personally, I'm wondering if there is something I can contribute to reduce work or costs. This would add to the ``cooperative'' aspect of TLG. Yeah, yeah, still related to money: keeping the costs low. So given the choice between having to pay $10 more per month to relieve Tom from making frequent trips to PA, I'd rather find out if there is something I, or someone else, can do to reduce the need. Regarding sub-TLG collectives: This makes sense, too. For example, it would be a waste for me to get a news feed to my home, for my use only. I'd rather get a member sponsored machine set up at one of the hub sites to gather news for many, if not all, in TLG. The biggest win here is that bandwidth would be conserved. Anyhow, is it completely clear that I dont know who the audience is yet? How many of us are there? Do we ever meet face-to-face? Regards, -Bill Kaster -- From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Jan 12 19:13:55 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA09162; Wed, 12 Jan 1994 19:03:59 -0800 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 19:03:59 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Name server: host name lookup failure Message-Id: <199401130303.TAA09162@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-sf-list (hard error -- address deleted) :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-toad-list (hard error -- address deleted) :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-toad-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 501 admin@cybermed.com (Pete Killcommons)... 550 Host unknown (Name server: host not found) 501 a2@ah.com (Arthur Abraham),hughes@ah.com (Eric Hughes)... 550 Host unknown (Name server: no data known for name) ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA09161; Wed, 12 Jan 1994 19:03:57 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA11042; Wed, 12 Jan 94 22:07:39 -0500 Received: from hp.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23232; Wed, 12 Jan 94 19:07:33 PST Received: from hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com by hp.com with SMTP (1.36.108.7/15.5+IOS 3.13) id AA04366; Wed, 12 Jan 1994 19:07:32 -0800 Received: by hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com (1.37.187.4/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA19122; Wed, 12 Jan 94 19:03:38 -0800 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 19:03:38 -0800 From: "William S. Kaster" Message-Id: <9401130303.AA19122@hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com> To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com In-Reply-To: Edward Elhauge's message of Wed, 12 Jan 1994 14:53:19 -0800 Subject: Tom's thoughts on TLG [WAS: TLG Jan 94 news...] Hello, My name is Bill Kaster and I've been connected through TLG for about 2 months. I've just this week made it onto the distribution list. And I have just read Ed's reply to Tom's remarks (first discussion message I have received over the list.) I've been impressed with the reliability of the net. It seems that PG&E is to blame for most every failure. I've been using the net mostly, of all things, for games. I'm an Empire player and a netrek player. Both of these require long stretches in front of the computer. I'm providing an ftp site for a group tape drive purchase I'm coordinating (SCIS-2 2GB DAT ~$400). I read news. It is wonderful, while away from home, to be able to transfer files from home to somewhere else. Mosaic is awesome. In short, I am a net addict. When I call Tom about the net being down, I certainly hope it isn't perceived as ``jumping down his throat'' and more of ``hey, did you know...'' Low cost is important to me. The ``cooperative'' nature of this venture was clearly stated in terms of money. More people = costs go down OR service goes up. Simple. I'm also not surprised that TLG may be having growing pains. It is important that we as a group have a similar idea of where this is going. Now keep in mind that I've only seen the one message, so I am moving into some possibly dangerous waters. In my opinion, TLG should be run in a business-like manner, but not for profit. Tom getting a stipend does not make this ``for profit''. ``For profit'' to me means selling as little as possible for as much as possible. Clearly, this does not apply to TLG. For example, if suddenly there was excess cash (yeah, right ;-) ) then costs should go down or service should go up. ``Service going up'' means making sure Tom is comfortable with the amount of work/amount of money involved. Excess cash does not mean ``dividend for core group''. (No one said that, I'm just trying to illustrate my point.) I'm inferring that Tom is getting swamped by TLG. If this is so, then we should be looking at ways to reduce the workload. Perhaps hiring someone to be on call is in order. Hiring someone doesn't automatically make this ``for profit'' either. Personally, I'm wondering if there is something I can contribute to reduce work or costs. This would add to the ``cooperative'' aspect of TLG. Yeah, yeah, still related to money: keeping the costs low. So given the choice between having to pay $10 more per month to relieve Tom from making frequent trips to PA, I'd rather find out if there is something I, or someone else, can do to reduce the need. Regarding sub-TLG collectives: This makes sense, too. For example, it would be a waste for me to get a news feed to my home, for my use only. I'd rather get a member sponsored machine set up at one of the hub sites to gather news for many, if not all, in TLG. The biggest win here is that bandwidth would be conserved. Anyhow, is it completely clear that I dont know who the audience is yet? How many of us are there? Do we ever meet face-to-face? Regards, -Bill Kaster -- From MAILER-DAEMON@fido.wps.com Thu Jan 13 11:01:12 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id LAA09854; Thu, 13 Jan 1994 11:01:08 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA03237; Thu, 13 Jan 94 11:02:19 -0800 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 11:02:19 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@wps.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <9401131902.AA03237@wps.com> To: To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: from cygnus.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA28556; Mon, 10 Jan 94 11:04:46 -0800 Received: from uu3.psi.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17447; Mon, 10 Jan 94 11:04:43 PST Received: from seiden.com by uu3.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA05604 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 94 13:47:08 -0500 Received: by seiden.com (4.1/1.39) id AA11445; Mon, 10 Jan 94 10:39:34 PST From: mis@seiden.com (Mark Seiden) Message-Id: <9401101839.AA11445@seiden.com> Subject: group buy of ss1+ and ss2 with weitek To: private-garden@cygnus.com Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 10:39:33 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1518 we're reasonably close to a group buy of ss1+ equipment, though it could only help the price a bit if the size of the group were a bit larger and help my sanity a bit if it were more local to the bay area. i'm also looking into other suppliers who might have better prices, or conditions. since strata got quotes on ss1+, 8M, 424M, gx, 16" color (but no SunOS RTY) for around $1400 i've gotten a quote for a tradeup of a ss1+ with 8M to a ss2 with weitek power-up (which makes it as fast as a ss10) with 0M, floppy and 2 user RTU for $2500. the way this works is: you need some 4Mx9 memory, and to move your sbus boards and monitor over to the ss2. by the way, since the trade-in value of the ss1+ with 8M is only $400 many people may opt to pay $2900 and keep their 1+, which is then usable as a firewall machine or something... i've also found a source of used hi-res 19" mono displays for ~$300. these are the 19" mono displays that drive off a bw2 and give you like 16xx by 1280 resolution. once you've used one it's hard to do without the extra real estate. so if you're interested in any of these, express interest in your specific configuration within the next two days, and get your money together shortly (since it will a COD purchase to reduce the price even more). if you've already expressed interest: strata has forwarded to me the mail folder containing your past correspondence and i'll be in touch with you individually shortly. -- mark seiden, mis@seiden.com, 1-(415) 592 8559 (voice) From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Jan 13 13:56:29 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA10043; Thu, 13 Jan 1994 13:56:27 -0800 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 13:56:27 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401132156.NAA10043@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA06238; Mon, 10 Jan 1994 13:50:28 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401102150.NAA06238@tlg.org> Subject: New, IMPROVED! TLG Contact list To: garden-list Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 13:50:27 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 5688 Thanks everyone for all the corrections! There were enough that I'll simply reissue it... The Little Garden Network: Contacts List, 10 January, 1994 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- info@tlg.org Gets you an automatic response of our brief brochure, plus the message gets forwarded to... admin@tlg.org Me, Pozar and Randy. We answer questions, and it's a good place to send problem reports etc. # Mailing lists garden-list@tlg.org Sends mail to all TLG members in the Contact list. the-little-garden@cygnus.com Still works private-garden@cygnus.com Still works ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- # POP:SF North Bay Network Inc, John Harkin jh@nbn.com (John Harkin). . . . . . . . . . . 415-472-1600 Late Night Software, Tim Pozar pozar@kumr.lns.com (Tim Pozar). . . . . . . . . . . 415 695 7727 h Zocalo Engineering, Bill Woodcock woody@zocalo.com (Bill Woodcock) . . . . . . . . . 510 540 8000 Nexsys Electronics Inc, Pete Killcommons M.D. admin@cybermed.com (Pete Killcommons) . . . . . . . 415-541-9980 David Muir Sharnoff muir@idiom.berkeley.ca.us (David Muir Sharnoff) . . 510 644 0441 h Eric Theise verve@well.sf.ca.us (Eric Theise) . . . . . . . . . 415 648 0161 Vitadata, Lee Jensen lee@bio.com (Lee Jensen) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 510 237-6113 World Power Systems, Tom Jennings tomj@fido.wps.com (Tom Jennings). . . . . . . . . . 415 552 8156 h # POP:TOAD John Gilmore gnu@toad.com (John Gilmore) . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 221 6524 sf Joe's Garage, Kenton A. Hoover shibumi@joes.garage.com (Kenton A. Hoover) . . . . 415 957 3614 shibumi@net.bio.net (Kenton A. Hoover). . . . . . . 415 962 7323 Joe's Garage, Kira Siegel kira@lsil.com (Kira Siegel) . . . . . . . . . . . 408 433 6904 Canta Forda Computer Laboratory, Rich Morin rdm@cfcl.com (Rich Morin) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 873 7842,41 Lever Industries, Ed Elhauge ee@lever.com (Ed Elhauge) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3141 w Imagine That, Richard Couture rrc@myrddin.imat.com (Richard Couture). . . . . . . 415 621 1908 h Wired Magazine, Andrew Waegel andrew@wired.com (Andrew Waegel) . . . . . . . . . 415 904 6459 QueerNet, Roger Klorese rogerk@queernet.org (Roger Klorese) . . . . . . . . 415 255 2733 h A-Squared, Arthur Abraham a2@cryptoad.ah.com (Arthur Abraham) . . . . . . . . 510 339 1748 Dan Farmer zen@fish.com (Dan Farmer) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 431 8239 Information Enterprises, Tom Wadlow wadlow@tw.com (Tom Wadlow). . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 864 1554 Broadcatch Technology, Fen Labalme fen@comedia.com (Fen Labalme) . . . . . . . . . . . 415 731 1174 Barn Communications, Tim Wicinski wicinski@barn.com (Tim Wicinski). . . . . . . . . . 415-467-9136 Cyborganic Media, Jonathan Steuer Jonathan@cyborganic.com (Jonathan Steuer) . . . . . 415-255-1120 Robert Cohen robc@lavender.com (Robert Cohen) . . . . . . . . . 415-553-4033 # PA ;list: garden-pa-list Hugh Daniel hugh@toad.com (Hugh Daniel) . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 473 0669 h Rich Pixley rich@sendai.cygnus.com (Rich Pixley). . . . . . . . 415 903 1400 w Jim Wilson wilson@moria.cygnus.com (Jim Wilson). . . . . . . . 415 329 8321 h Sean Fagan sef@kithrup.com (Sean Fagan). . . . . . . . . . . . Bill Cox bill@cygnus.com (Bill Cox) . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 321 0579 h Hoopy Froods, Inc, Michael Park mikep@dragoman.com (Michael Park) . . . . . . . . . 415 340 9770 h . . . . . . . . . 415 599 3012 w TSoft BBS & Public Unix, Mike Durkin mdurkin@tsoft.net (Mike Durkin) . . . . . . . . . . 805 546 8114 h Paul Goldstone paul@traveler.com (Paul Goldstone) . . . . . . . . 415 365 9373 h WS Rupprecht Consulting, Wolfgang Rupprecht wolfgang@wsrcc.com (Wolfgang Rupprecht) . . . . . . 510 659 9757 h Seiden and Associates, Mark Seiden mis@seiden.com (Mark Seiden) . . . . . . . . . . . 415 592 8559 h Virtual City, M. Strata Rose strata@virtual-city.virtual.net (M. Strata Rose) . 415 327 6027 h David S.H. Rosenthal dshr@abitare.org (David S.H. Rosenthal) . . . . . . 415 323 5285 Eric Murray root@skidpad.palo-alto.ca.us (Eric Murray) . . . . 415 493 8107 Dogwood Media, David Cornejo root@dogwood.com (David Cornejo) . . . . . . . . . 510 713 2667 TIW Systems Inc, Lonhyn T. Jasinskyj lonhyn@tiw.com (Lonhyn T. Jasinskyj) . . . . . . . 408 734 3900 x327 NVidia Corp, David S.H. Rosenthal dshr@NVidia.COM (David S.H. Rosenthal) . . . . . . 408 720 6106 #POP: CYGNUS Cygnus Support, John Gilmore gnu@cygnus.com (John Gilmore) . . . . . . . . . . . 415 903 1418 mv Cygnus Support, Stu Grossman grossman@cygnus.com (Stu Grossman) . . . . . . . . 415 903 1400 Cygnus Support, Jean Marie Diaz ambar@cygnus.com (Jean Marie Diaz) . . . . . . . . 415 903 1400 Cygnus Support, Brian Smith brian@cygnus.com (Brian Smith) . . . . . . . . . . 415 903 1425 MSM Co, Greg Merrell postmaster@msm.com (Greg Merrell) . . . . . . . . . 408 253 2290 Arasmith Engineering, Bob Arasmith bob@arasmith.com (Bob Arasmith) . . . . . . . . . . 408 749 0501 Sunnyside Computing Inc, Al Whaley Al@Sunnyside.COM (Al Whaley). . . . . . . . . . . . 415 322 5411 Santa Cruz Community Internet, Qarin Von Brink, Matthew Kaufman admin@scruz.net . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 408 457 5050 Everest Technology Inc, Robert Nielsen rnielsen@everest.com (Robert Nielsen) . . . . . . . 415 326 2130 Pacific Software, Tom Lipkis tal@pss.com (Tom Lipkis) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 415 856-4289 -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From nbn-request@moon.nbn.com Thu Jan 13 18:28:32 1994 Received: from moon.nbn.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA10234; Thu, 13 Jan 1994 18:28:30 -0800 Received: from localhost (jh@localhost) by moon.nbn.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) id SAA11597 for nbn-alert; Thu, 13 Jan 1994 18:32:05 -0800 From: jh@moon.nbn.com (John Harkin) Message-Id: <9401131832.ZM11595@moon.nbn.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 18:32:03 -0800 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (2.1.0 10/27/92) To: nbn-alert@moon.nbn.com Subject: Scheduled Outage 1/14/94 Status: O First, you are receiving this message from a new email list, "nbn-alert@nbn.com" that is for announcements for NBN customers and others with an interest about the operation of the North Bay Network. We have scheduled a test of the T1 link to San Francisco Friday morning, 1/14/94, at 9 AM. I expect the link will be down for about 20 minutes, but it could be until 10 AM. This will affect all access of the Internet from NBN during this time. Please let me know if this will be a problem for you. John -- John Harkin +1 415 472-1600 moon!jh jh@nbn.com postmaster@nbn.com North Bay Network - Direct Connect Internet for the North Bay From jbolluyt@picard.infonet.net Fri Jan 14 08:15:21 1994 Received: from picard.infonet.net by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id IAA10849; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 08:15:13 -0800 From: Jan Bolluyt X-Mailer: SCO System V Mail (version 3.2) To: info@tlg.org Subject: info pleeze Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 10:10:14 CST Message-ID: <9401141010.aa21622@picard.infonet.net> Status: O yes From sims@pdesds1.scra.org Fri Jan 14 10:17:57 1994 Received: from pdesds1.scra.org by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA10991; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 10:17:50 -0800 Received: by pdesds1.scra.org (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA15643; Fri, 14 Jan 94 13:20:57 -0500 Received: from sloth by pdesds1.noname (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23459; Fri, 14 Jan 94 13:21:51 EST Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 13:21:51 EST From: sims@pdesds1.scra.org (Jim Sims) Message-Id: <9401141821.AA23459@pdesds1.noname> Received: by sloth (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02174; Fri, 14 Jan 94 13:29:42 EST To: info@tlg.org Subject: info Status: O > To check out a co-op some of my friends started because they couldn't > afford it separately: The Little Garden (a San Francisco Bay Area > Internetwork) contact the address in the reply-to header. I've been on the net through various employers for the last 5 years or so, but am now looking to branch out on my own. I've been looking around in the charleston area and there seem to be no local providers here for uucp or internet access. So, i've been waffling about taking the plunge and trying something similar to what it sounds like you have done. I've got about a zillion questions, if you wouldnt mind helping someone else get started (or decide not to) How long have you had your system up and running? What made you decide to "do it"? Why did you choose the hardware you're using? Have you regretted this? What systems do you currently have? How much disk space? How many phone lines/modems? What kind? What growth rate have you seen since you started? recently? Who does maintennance for you? What kind of disaster recovery do you have set up? hot site? contract with SUN, DEC, or someone else? How did you go about getting your T1 connection? Who do you connect to? What kind of rates do you get up there? (one of the problems here is that there appears to be no POP in charleston) How many folks do you have working for/with you? Are they partners or employees? How do you divide up the work? (esp weekend coverage) How many subscribers do you have? What's the mix between business and private? Do you advertise? Where/how? Anything I forgot to ask? Any extra advice/horror stories? thanks, jim From tomj Fri Jan 14 11:18:35 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id LAA11078; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 11:18:32 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401141918.LAA11078@tlg.org> Subject: Re: info To: sims@pdesds1.scra.org (Jim Sims) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 11:18:30 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401141821.AA23459@pdesds1.noname> from "Jim Sims" at Jan 14, 94 01:21:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2262 Status: O Sorry, but you've asked a lifetime of questions. It would take me all day to answer them! I'll enclose our brochure, which doesn't cover hisdtory etc. If you're interested in getting a connection, and you're in the Bay Area, let me know. If you're just curious, well I wish I had the time to answer your questions, but we're still in the middle of our first few months and extra time doesn't exist. If you've got any specific questions let me know! Tom Jennings > > > To check out a co-op some of my friends started because they couldn't > > afford it separately: The Little Garden (a San Francisco Bay Area > > Internetwork) contact the address in the reply-to header. > > I've been on the net through various employers for the last 5 years > or so, but am now looking to branch out on my own. I've been looking > around in the charleston area and there seem to be no local providers > here for uucp or internet access. So, i've been waffling about taking > the plunge and trying something similar to what it sounds like you > have done. I've got about a zillion questions, if you wouldnt mind > helping someone else get started (or decide not to) > > How long have you had your system up and running? What made you > decide to "do it"? > > Why did you choose the hardware you're using? Have you regretted > this? What systems do you currently have? How much disk space? How > many phone lines/modems? What kind? What growth rate have you seen > since you started? recently? Who does maintennance for you? > > What kind of disaster recovery do you have set up? hot site? contract > with SUN, DEC, or someone else? > > How did you go about getting your T1 connection? Who do you connect > to? What kind of rates do you get up there? (one of the problems here > is that there appears to be no POP in charleston) > > How many folks do you have working for/with you? Are they partners or > employees? How do you divide up the work? (esp weekend coverage) > > How many subscribers do you have? What's the mix between business and > private? Do you advertise? Where/how? > > > Anything I forgot to ask? Any extra advice/horror stories? > > thanks, > jim > -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From sims@pdesds1.scra.org Fri Jan 14 12:38:23 1994 Received: from pdesds1.scra.org by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA11293; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 12:38:21 -0800 Received: by pdesds1.scra.org (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA15996; Fri, 14 Jan 94 15:41:35 -0500 Received: from sloth by pdesds1.noname (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23908; Fri, 14 Jan 94 15:42:30 EST Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 15:42:30 EST From: sims@pdesds1.scra.org (Jim Sims) Message-Id: <9401142042.AA23908@pdesds1.noname> Received: by sloth (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02324; Fri, 14 Jan 94 15:50:22 EST To: tomj@fnord.tlg.org Cc: admin@fnord.tlg.org Subject: info Status: O > Sorry, but you've asked a lifetime of questions. It would take me all > day to answer them! I'll enclose our brochure, which doesn't cover > hisdtory etc. > If you're interested in getting a connection, and you're in the Bay > Area, let me know. unfortunately, that's the whole point. There is *NO*alternative in this area. > If you're just curious, well I wish I had the time to > answer your questions, but we're still in the middle of our first few > months and extra time doesn't exist. understood. (all too well) > If you've got any specific questions let me know! The main question i have is how to go about contacting some organization that will allow me to do what (i perceive) you guys do: connect my computer to thiers and (and the Internet) so that I have a local dialup host for folks to have accounts on that can then do email, telnet, ftp. Is there anything I need to do (besides buy the host, modems, disks, set it all up, advertise, market, get customers, admin the whole mess) beyonf calling up (random example) uunet and sending them $X thousand $ for a CSU and paying them $Y hundred per month, and gettings handfuls of leased lines from the phone co? jim From tomj Fri Jan 14 12:41:33 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA11300; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 12:41:22 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401142041.MAA11300@tlg.org> Subject: Re: TLG - How do I get connected? To: alm@netcom.com (Andrew Moore) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 12:41:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <199401030646.WAA01868@mail.netcom.com> from "Andrew Moore" at Jan 2, 94 10:46:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2146 Status: O > I am in Redwood City, so the Palo Alto POP would be local to me. Fine! Likely you can't, but is 903-1400 a local call? If so, you can use the Mtn. View POP, which is preferable... if not, just edit the form below to pick wihhc POP you'll use. > I will be in Oregon this week until about January 7, 1994. > My home telephone number in Redwood City is 415-365-9375 - a message > can be left here. I can also be called this week at 503-535-8001. Sorry I lost this til now! Are you ready to go ahead now? I'll assume so, and inclulde the form... fill it out and mail it back to me, then I'll start the process. T H E L I T T L E G A R D E N return this ENTIRE form to: tomj@wps.com (You might want to keep a copy for yourself) Please fill any ***'ed items below (ie. information I don't have) and change any incorrect items, and mail it back to me. Some of it will be posted to a contact list available to little garden members; the rest of it I'll keep private. ---------- Please don't remove anything below this line ---------- Your Little Garden POP will be: 814 University, Palo Alto 94301 Cygnus Support, 1937 Landings Dr, Mtn. View CA 94043 Type of circuit you are installing: *** voice-grade You've been assigned 8-bit subnet: 140.174.112.xx For routing purposes, the address of the Little Garden router/gateway ("next hop") is: 140.174.23.13 *You* tell *us* what the first address is on your end (eg. your SLIP or PPP port that's the gateway to your network): *** PUBLIC INFORMATION: Company/site name (optional): *** Person/contact name: *** Voice phone to contact for problems: *** Domain name you'll register: *** person@domain to send mail to: *** TECHNICAL INFORMATION: Do you want SLIP or PPP? *** (SLIP only) Want van Jacobson compression? (y,n) [recommended] *** UNLISTED INFORMATION: Phone/circuit number at TLG site: *** Mailing address (for billing): Company/person if different: *** Street, etc: *** City, etc: *** (Other info required? Add here.) *** -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From dlbb0@amdahl.com Fri Jan 14 12:55:58 1994 Received: from amdahl.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA11347; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 12:55:50 -0800 Received: by amdahl.com (/\==/\ Smail #25.33) id ; Fri, 14 Jan 94 12:59 PST Message-Id: Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 13:00 PST From: dlbb0@amdahl.com (David Black) To: info@admin.tlg.rg.net Status: O send info From dlbb0@amdahl.com Fri Jan 14 12:58:49 1994 Received: from amdahl.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA11360; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 12:58:48 -0800 Received: by amdahl.com (/\==/\ Smail #25.33) id ; Fri, 14 Jan 94 13:01 PST Message-Id: Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 13:03 PST From: dlbb0@amdahl.com (David Black) To: admin@tlg.org Status: O My name is David Black. Please call me at your earliest convenience. Daytime: 408-992-3271, evenings: 408-738-4467 I am very interested in your SLIP service and wish to ask a few questions not addressed in your documentation provided via anonymous FTP before signing up. I also left a message at 415-487-1902. Thanks, Dave From tomj Fri Jan 14 13:07:14 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA11372; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:07:10 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401142107.NAA11372@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Internet connectivity To: edwelbrn@cscns.com (Ed Welborn) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:07:09 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401050021.AB17100@cns.cscns.com> from "Ed Welborn" at Jan 4, 94 04:27:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 6468 Status: O (Sorry for the logn delay, kinda swamped here!) > Ok, I think I've got it concerning costs for equipment etc. Except for the > $6 per mile the phone company would charge monthly. Would that be measures > from the Bay Area, Sacramento or is it more like the nearest switching > station? Or can you really answer that one? Is it just for the phone > company? Can you recomend someone to talk to at Pac Bell? I've called them > before and basically just got blank stares. (Tim -- can you jump in here with details I don't have?) The line will be from our site, to yours. How it gets from here to their is Pacific Bell's secret. They'll charge you end to end. I personally don' tknow a contact at PacBell. They can be obtuse if you don't utter the right phrase. You have to call the Business Office. You want a leased Data Line. > >to the Net". If you mean dialin from a PC (etc) and use telnet, ftp,, > >etc, that requires a computer to dial into, modems, a terminal server or > >serial ports, etc....(snip) > > Yes, have the school set up like your company or Netcom, so that local > users could modem in and have a shell, SLIP or PPP account and through the > school then connect to the Internet. I think we are understanding each > other here. This is outside the scope of what TLG does. We provide the basic service, connection to the Internet. What you do with it is up to you; you can install computer(s) and phone line(s) and give out access like that, shells, PPP or SLIP, etc, all you want. We place no restriction on this, though nor do we do it for you. Basically, we put in a water pipe to your house. If you want 10 sinks and 10 showers, or just one, that's fine by us. Pay your water bill is all we ask. And we're not the plumbers who will install the sinks and showers, though we can tell you basically what that involves and maybe help you find a plumber. > >Making the school a provider means higher initial overhead and hassle, > >but it would be vastly cheaper if you were subsidized by local users > >especially other directly-connected hosts on the net (besides just dialup > >users). > > How much, if any, hands on tech support can we expect from TLG to set > things up? I did read where you expect your customers to do it pretty much > on their own. We'll help you get the connection to TLG up, but beyond that, you have to support it. Or hire consultants etc that can do it. > What do you mean here by subsidized by... other directly-connected hosts? > My thoughts were that a person such as myself who has an account with a > company would switch to paying the school for my connection instead. How > would we get subsidized by other directly-connected hosts? Being able to do this assumes you have the necessary equipment, software, and staff to support it. We don't provide any of these things. This was mentioned as a "what if" potential method to lower your costs, but it assumes a *lot* of overhead on your part. > >Yes. Only the capacity drops, not functionality (ie. you can do ftp, > >telnet, gopher, etc). The price difference modem based to 56Kis > >substantial, but so are the capabilities. > > Would only the school be able to ftp etc or would others be able to modem > into the school and through them connect to the Internet as I've mentioned > above? Because this is where I expect to get monthly funding, from users > who do not now have (but would like to have) a connection to the Internet > or those locally who do and are paying dearly for long-distance charges. Yes, but it assumes YOU have the equipment, software and expertise necessary to operate it. Like I said, TLG provides the raw water pipe under ther street; YOU provide the fixtures. This is partly what Netcom etc do for you, and charges you for it. > >BTW, if your funding is such that you get lump sums for capital > >purchases, but not operating expenses, we have considered "selling" > >a year's worth (say) of connectivity for a lump sum, specifically > >for this sort of thing, schools, libraries etc. If that's useful let me > >know. > > Though I have not considered this before, it might be easier to get lump > sum donations for this project than monthly commitments. Do let us know > your thought on this. It's just something we recognize as reality for schools it seems, these send'em a lump of money but not support 'em type funding things. If this becomes an issue we will work with it. We can save this for later. > One last question for now. How powerful would the server computer need to > be? I am Mac orientated, but there are others here familiar with the IBM > compatible world. There may also be someone who could deal with Unix--not > sure. If you could put it in terms of what size Mac would be needed that > would be great although I do know enough about PCs to compare. While I don't know much abount Macs, I think it's safe to say you don' want to do multi-user server stuf on one. COnsider this -- what a Mac is really good at, user interface, will be completely ignored in a dial-up host! I haven't seen any Mac software that does server stuff either. For supporting many users, you'll probably need some unix variant. There are reaonably priced ones, such as BSDI ($500 software) that run great on a PC-clone type 486. The hardware necessary will cost approx $2500. Plus routers, leased lines, DSU, etc as mentioned before. This is a GROSS ESTIMATE at this point -- it's certainly not $500, and it's less than $5000, for the computer. > My mental concept has the server behaving like a switch board. Simply > taking a call from a modem or a directly connected computer and connecting > through the leased line to the Internet. Would it necessarily have to > process a lot of data also? Hmmm, I guess with email, newsgroups etc. > Anyway can you give more details on this? This is NOT accurate, sorry to say. The "Internet" is just a road way. It's not busses, trucks, bicycles, sidewalks, trees, hydrants, signposts... we run a dirt road to your house, you have to pave it and put up acessories. Services like Telnet, FTP, email, etc are generated IN SOFTWARE on your host computer(s). The internet connectionmerely conveys those encoded services to other host computers running similar software. In other words, there are several layers of abstraction ON TOP OF the basic internet connection. YOU have to provide those! -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Fri Jan 14 13:10:57 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA11386; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:08:24 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401142108.NAA11386@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Email access To: bali!siress@zebra.unix.portal.com (Tony Siress) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:08:23 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401050750.AA04564@bali.uucp> from "Tony Siress" at Jan 4, 94 11:50:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 155 Status: O Did you get everything you need from us? If not write or call again... -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Fri Jan 14 13:12:04 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA11411; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:12:00 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401142112.NAA11411@tlg.org> Subject: Re: ISDN on TLG? To: redback!jimmc@eskimo.com (Jim McBeath) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:11:59 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401061830.AA00470@redback.> from "Jim McBeath" at Jan 6, 94 10:30:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 928 Status: O > I have the TLG announcement from ba.internet, 23-Oct-93, in which you > mention the possibility of ISDN service. I'm interested in either 64Kb (1B) > or 128Kb (2B) ISDN service, and I'm trying to get an idea of how much it > would cost. Do you have any ISDN connections yet? Any idea of what > it might cost, for hardware, installation, and monthly fees? Unfortunately ISDN is deployed too poorly to be useful yet. Pacific Bell has it avilable only in tiny, isolated islands of service, and worse, theere is no flat-rate tarriff; you'd have to pay $0.01/mmin minimum, or over $400/mo. Equipment is expensive and uncommon. Regular 56K leased lines are far cheaper and equipment is becoming relatively inexpensive. > Also, what bandwidth of connection do you have to AlterNet? W're not connected via Alternet, but via SprintLink, at T1. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Fri Jan 14 13:22:39 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA11460; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:18:51 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401142118.NAA11460@tlg.org> Subject: Re: 56k To: wolfgang@wsrcc.com (Wolfgang Rupprecht) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:18:50 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin, gnu@cygnus.com, grossman@cygnus.com In-Reply-To: <199401070248.AA28629@wsrcc.com> from "Wolfgang Rupprecht" at Jan 6, 94 06:48:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1228 Status: O > I'm not sure where we left the 56k discussion. If I log the actual > network traffic (and keep the levels to an "average" modem connection) > is it ok if I get a leased line. I really have to decide what I'm > going to do. I've been paying the TLG monthlies for the last 4 months > without using the connection. This is pretty stupid. Sorry for the delay!!! I'm not sure what to do. I am very wary of setting something up that is not *repeatable*. I am certianly not worried about you not logging/reporting usage correctly. That is flatly not it. The worry is, strangers will want the same thing, and we'd like to provide it; then we have a nightmare of accounting without any process. I would be willing to do it NOW if you'd commit to working on a solution -- say SNMP client software -- so that we'd be able to do this in general. Dammit, it's so worthwile a project, that I think it would be worth a special deal if you'd get us such a thing in some short period of time, say a few months. Could you commit to that? Assuming we define the task, etc. PS: I have a potential lead for you for connections in Fairfield. Interested? -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Fri Jan 14 13:39:15 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA11518; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:38:54 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401142138.NAA11518@tlg.org> Subject: Re: The Little Garden To: diamond@netcom.com (diamond) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:38:52 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <199401060151.RAA24545@mail.netcom.com> from "diamond" at Jan 5, 94 05:51:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3174 Status: O > 1. Do you have a site in my local calling area? I'm in the "San > Mateo" service area. We have POPs in SF, Mtn. View (903-1400) and 814 University (473 prefix). If you can call either of those two numbers as a local call, you're in. If not, all is not lost. We have members in Redwood City who are using Call Forwarding to get to PA. If you can call an intermediate area that can call PA or MV, that's a win -- simple find someone whose house you can install a line (only needs a phone on it once to make the call-forward) and call that, etc... it adds approx. $35 install one-time, and $13/mo. > 2. What is the maximum baud rate you allow on the low-speed $70/mo > modem service? Can I run 14.4 v.32bis modems at 56Kb, or even higher > with v.fast, or is there a limitation? We'll run up to 19.2K for $70mo; V.FAST is $130. That's modem rates. DTE isn't an issue, we can set up 57600 baud. > 3. Do you recommend/sell modems for the purpose. Specifically I've > heard the Zyxel modems are very high quality, and that their top of > the line (not sure what model number) modem is upgradeable to v.fast. > If so, which modem(s) and can you give me the price. Low cost: Fry's has US Robotics Sportsters, approx. $170 each. They are reliable, v.32bis. Overall throughput is fair. Many TLG members use those. ZyXEL U-1496E's are reasonably common. They cost $290 each. They have other features such as dial-back that works that are life-savers for some installations (say from a biz site to a residential site...) You'll have to contact ZyXEL for upgrade info: Zyxel, TEL: 1-800-255-4101. > 4. Do you have any recommendations regarding use of NetBSD, FreeBSD, > BSD386, Linux, etc. for the node software. All are in use in TLG. Your call! > 5. Do you have any recommendations regarding the SLIP or PPP > software? Whatever you have and works. We support either. We're using Livingston Portmasters. > 6. What security provisions, if any, does TLG provide on the packets > and/or RS-232 streams flowing around within TLG? None, other than good practice. As far as physical security goes, reasonably good. I mean, you'd have to brean-and-enter to get access to modems, and all are in reasonable sites, two are residential. We have one small host on an ethernet, soon to be moved off. So within two weeks there will be no TLG site upon which an "ether sniffer" cound ge run to steal passwords, etc. > 7. How long does it take to set up a new account, including the phone > lines if you know about that part? Mere days. > 8. Is there any problem ordering residential lines in a location > other than one's own? I already have several residential and business > lines into my house, so I don't believe that another residential line > is going to be a problem. However, I'm concerned about Pacbell > getting curious when I try to order a "residential" line at somebody > else's house. It's not a problem. You just can't order residential sevice at one of our commercial sites. > 9. Does the phone company detect/object to voice lines being off-hook > permanently? No. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From admin@tlg.org Fri Jan 14 13:53:03 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA11538; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:52:46 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401142152.NAA11538@tlg.org> Subject: Re: TLG Jan 94 news... To: rogerk@queernet.org Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:52:44 -0800 (PST) Cc: garden-list@tlg.org In-Reply-To: from "rogerk@queernet.org" at Jan 8, 94 00:39:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3499 Status: O > I've been a member of consensus organizations to, from GayLine/Dallas to QN, > as well as some others. And ultimately, the point is this: not all coops are > Nomenus. Agreed. Ed elaborates on this as well, so I'll be brief here. Mainly, I wanted to use some shock treatment to get us out of using coop so readily. I admit I grossly oversimplified Nomenus. (And personally I find them heavy-handed.) And in fact, the intentional flip-side is that, in spite of their rather formalized organization, it doesn't prevent a small crowd from controllign things. Anyways... > Being a cooperative does *not* require a consensus process. One of the > prerogatives of the cooperative member is to delegate. In my view of TLG, we > delegate some decisions and a lot of work, *choosing* to do so, and to > compensate you (inadequately) for it. That doesn't mean that we don't reserve > the right to participate in decisions we think are important. Yes, but... as I tried to describe, the environment is irretreivable changed. What was "delegated" back in August93 is now a totalyl different beast. It went on ajourney, and came back unrecognizable. I was trying to dispell the idea that we're just sort of larger than last year. We are completely different now. > > "TLG" and imagine last spring, where all TLG members could actually > > eat dinner in The Little Garden Restaurant in Palo Alto, talk to > > each other. > > And in some way, I think it's important that we never lose this, never become > just the "low-cost, no-barriers commercial provider." The simple fact that we > are having this discussion on this mailing list is evidence of my point; > otherwise, this would be a unidirectional ops list. We'll see what happens when ther's 100? 200? members. I think a thing happens when you get that many people. It fragments and fractures, as the graininess get fine enough you get to choose and align. It's human nature I think. And off the subject... > low rates and lack of barriers. Yes, if someone needs nameserver help, or > smail/sendmail, or majordomo, or gopher... their *first* line of support, I > think, should be this list, not you as Customer Service. Holding the net > together -- yes, that's your job. to the extent that you choose to do the > rest, like the rest of us, you do that as a member, not an employee. IMO. I agree too. A few weeks back, I was utterly swamped with new-member-help. I asked for volunteers for helping people out. I got some. I didn't follow through -- the problem at the moment got solved, and I realzied we didn't have a ready-0made method to deal with this as an ongoing problem. It's just as easy to do the work to solve the problem, as it was to make the call for volunteers, and get them hooked up. We need a process for this -- volunteer anyone? (recursive pun, sorry). Seriously. Should I say, "New member user@host.domain needs help with XYZ? Can someone respond directly?" What if no one does? What if (N > 1) does? Basuically, how to connect new members to volunteeers that doesn't let 'em fall through the cracks? This is the sort of thing thta I stumble upon in my daily flogging about. And the method I (or anyone else would) go through in deciding where to apply effort. If long-term-solution B is even close to immediate-solution A, I favor B. But these few critical months A get greater weight. See? (Can some one run with this from here?!) -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Fri Jan 14 13:54:46 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA11553; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:54:42 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401142154.NAA11553@tlg.org> Subject: Re: The Little Garden -- Internet connectivity To: aab@cichlid.com Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:54:41 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin@tlg.org In-Reply-To: from "Andy Burgess" at Jan 8, 94 03:04:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 880 Status: O > I am connected to scruz.net but after two months have been unable to > get a reliable newsfeed. Do you think anyone in your 'family' would > consider providing one to me? I already feed four other sites via uucp > and will soon offer SLIP. I'm currently maintaining a uucp connection > to netcom just to get news. > > I ask you because I believe that you are my closest neighbor > (electrically speaking) after scruz.net. We too do not yet have nntpo servers as part of our services. The problem is simply, hardware. We don't ahve 600+ "free" MB of disk space, nor the machine to run it on, though likely that is ewasier to get. It is something we're working on, but until disks become "free" or exceedingly cheap (though $600 for a gig is cheap, we don't have $600) we don't have one. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Fri Jan 14 13:58:19 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA11599; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:58:13 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401142158.NAA11599@tlg.org> Subject: Re: ISDN & Nob Hill POP To: teamnet@netcom.com (Michael Lipson) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:58:12 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <199401120138.RAA12154@mail.netcom.com> from "Michael Lipson" at Jan 11, 94 05:38:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 776 Status: O > I hear Metricom (Los Gatos) has a pretty good thing going... $19.50/month > for 56K connection running over 900MHz radio. The "tv-remote sized" mobile > radio modems sell for less than $500. The IP-addressable radio "nodes" can > piggyback on lamp posts or buildings... I've seen it work, and if the deply it right, it will be a winner! It will bwe a bit hit with TLG people, and ytou can be sure we'll make it available. > What is the 200kb/s radio you mention in your info@tlg response? The intent in the prochure was, if you have such a thing, we're willing to work with it. We do not have such a thing. IT does exist, but they're aint no free lunch -- radio is expensive and limited. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Jan 14 14:13:09 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA11545; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:52:46 -0800 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:52:46 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Name server: host name lookup failure Message-Id: <199401142152.OAA11545@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-sf-list (hard error -- address deleted) :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-toad-list (hard error -- address deleted) :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-toad-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 501 admin@cybermed.com (Pete Killcommons)... 550 Host unknown (Name server: host not found) 451 lee@bio.com (Lee Jensen)... reply: read error from brnet.bio.com. 501 a2@ah.com (Arthur Abraham),hughes@ah.com (Eric Hughes)... 550 Host unknown (Name server: no data known for name) ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA11538; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:52:46 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401142152.NAA11538@tlg.org> Subject: Re: TLG Jan 94 news... To: rogerk@queernet.org Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:52:44 -0800 (PST) Cc: garden-list@tlg.org In-Reply-To: from "rogerk@queernet.org" at Jan 8, 94 00:39:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3499 > I've been a member of consensus organizations to, from GayLine/Dallas to QN, > as well as some others. And ultimately, the point is this: not all coops are > Nomenus. Agreed. Ed elaborates on this as well, so I'll be brief here. Mainly, I wanted to use some shock treatment to get us out of using coop so readily. I admit I grossly oversimplified Nomenus. (And personally I find them heavy-handed.) And in fact, the intentional flip-side is that, in spite of their rather formalized organization, it doesn't prevent a small crowd from controllign things. Anyways... > Being a cooperative does *not* require a consensus process. One of the > prerogatives of the cooperative member is to delegate. In my view of TLG, we > delegate some decisions and a lot of work, *choosing* to do so, and to > compensate you (inadequately) for it. That doesn't mean that we don't reserve > the right to participate in decisions we think are important. Yes, but... as I tried to describe, the environment is irretreivable changed. What was "delegated" back in August93 is now a totalyl different beast. It went on ajourney, and came back unrecognizable. I was trying to dispell the idea that we're just sort of larger than last year. We are completely different now. > > "TLG" and imagine last spring, where all TLG members could actually > > eat dinner in The Little Garden Restaurant in Palo Alto, talk to > > each other. > > And in some way, I think it's important that we never lose this, never become > just the "low-cost, no-barriers commercial provider." The simple fact that we > are having this discussion on this mailing list is evidence of my point; > otherwise, this would be a unidirectional ops list. We'll see what happens when ther's 100? 200? members. I think a thing happens when you get that many people. It fragments and fractures, as the graininess get fine enough you get to choose and align. It's human nature I think. And off the subject... > low rates and lack of barriers. Yes, if someone needs nameserver help, or > smail/sendmail, or majordomo, or gopher... their *first* line of support, I > think, should be this list, not you as Customer Service. Holding the net > together -- yes, that's your job. to the extent that you choose to do the > rest, like the rest of us, you do that as a member, not an employee. IMO. I agree too. A few weeks back, I was utterly swamped with new-member-help. I asked for volunteers for helping people out. I got some. I didn't follow through -- the problem at the moment got solved, and I realzied we didn't have a ready-0made method to deal with this as an ongoing problem. It's just as easy to do the work to solve the problem, as it was to make the call for volunteers, and get them hooked up. We need a process for this -- volunteer anyone? (recursive pun, sorry). Seriously. Should I say, "New member user@host.domain needs help with XYZ? Can someone respond directly?" What if no one does? What if (N > 1) does? Basuically, how to connect new members to volunteeers that doesn't let 'em fall through the cracks? This is the sort of thing thta I stumble upon in my daily flogging about. And the method I (or anyone else would) go through in deciding where to apply effort. If long-term-solution B is even close to immediate-solution A, I favor B. But these few critical months A get greater weight. See? (Can some one run with this from here?!) -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From admin@tlg.org Fri Jan 14 14:21:50 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA11675; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 14:21:46 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvywf08551; Fri, 14 Jan 94 17:25:36 -0500 Received: from fnord.tlg.org (tlg.org) by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21462; Fri, 14 Jan 94 14:25:24 PST Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA11659; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 14:20:22 -0800 From: tomj@fnord.tlg.org (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401142220.OAA11659@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Tom's thoughts on TLG [WAS: TLG Jan 94 news...] To: ee@lever.com (Edward Elhauge) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 14:20:21 -0800 (PST) Cc: the-little-garden@cygnus.com In-Reply-To: from "Edward Elhauge" at Jan 12, 94 02:53:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 7298 Status: O > I'd say that for people interested in collective projects, the models > presented are straw dogs. Unless one is ideologically committed to consensus > process it is a sure fire way to be socially ineffectual. (Which in my opinion > is the only reason to start a collective to begin with.) I have some special > insight into the Nomenus saga in that I was the catalyst for a major change in > how it was run. I admit you are correct. As I said in reply to Roger, my point was to shock us from using "coop" so loosely. I have no particular love for their process. > BTW, the 250 members of the board of directors was just a creative way to get > around the rules for non-profits. The STATE tries to create rules that > encourage top-down organizations with a powerless membership base. By making > everyone a member of the board of directors, after signing a paper to uphold > our statement of purpose, they were legally entitled to equal say. If we had > made the power situation based on trust eventually some on the board of > directors would have felt self-righteous enough to do what they though was > right rather than what the members thought was right [particularly with > Radical Faeiries and their "divine" inspiration]. A creative solution to the legal requirement, and it may have slightly held back the self-appointed... and pointful to us in that, in my experience, all of these formal (to whatever degree) system' unstated goal is to prevent a few from controlling the many, using rules. And as a rule of thumb, we all can observe that pretty much any system of ruls can be subverted in pretty much any way by creative people. The one thing that wards off mostof it is effective (effective!) communication. > * I sort of agree with Tom with respect to the basic service. Perhaps there > would be no point to a collective. But maybe there is a way to form > collectives within TLG to provide supplementary services. In particular I am > paying $70 per month to UUNET to get a complete News feed. I would encourage > other people who are paying for their News feed to contact me and see if we > can pool our resources to reduce our costs. I think it's an excellent idea, a natural break point, and the specific example, a good one to start with. NNTP servers are *the* hottest item I get Q's about and cnnot provide decent A's. [On that particular subj, a number of people can infinitely-loan older, full-size 200+ SCSI drives; we should parallel 'em, and make a server. Lets put this on the ageenda?] ) I think it's an excellent idea, a natural break point, and the specific example, a good one to start with. NNTP servers are *the* hottest item I get Q's about and cnnot provide decent A's. [On that particular subj, a number of people can infinitely-loan older, full-size 200+ SCSI drives; we should parallel 'em, and make a server. Lets put this on the ageenda?] > I agree that sooner or later we have to pay for all the hours Tom spends. I am > not asking for a free ride. It's just that if other members demand higher > levels of service than I need and we are splitting the bill evenly I'll > eventually wind up paying more than the $70/month that I pay now. Also right > now Tom J. is working at this-is-a-low-key-bunch-of-people rates, if the > attitude of enough members is to jump down his throat any time there is an > hour outage, even on a weekend night, he might charge > this-is-a-bunch-of-assholes rates. I try to only call him when I am at wits > end or don't known the status of the net, even then I try to be as brief as > possible. Unless we encourage that sort of culture our costs are bound to rise > uncontrollably. Good points. I think by staying clear on what "TLG" provides (bits to your door, not much ese) we'll minimize (though not eliminate) it. Groups, collective or otherwise, that provide services to TL members, and as members get access to "stuff" (internal ethernet), might solve it. Things that can become burdens to provide centrally (ie. me or whoever) can split off. [On that last, say NNTP servers on Toad all, PA or 444 Ethernet, there's issues... hosts on ethernets can be cracked on sniffers installed; bandwith usage; etc. All resolvable.] > >but by setting precedent, such as the resell-ability and no > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ > >restrictions on use. Though if we don't get explicit on THAT as > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >well I can easily see it getting lost in the haze of the future. > > No restriction on resell-ability is a major plus in TLG, most vendors seem to > be fairly relaxed about "restrictions on use", although I assume that if you > wanted to do something controversial, such as anonymous, encrypting > remailers, they might pull the plug on you. Why would this form of contract be > "lost in the haze of the future"? The core group would have to choose to do > this, it won't happen like a volcanic eruption. How could we get better > assurances that this won't happen, other than your stated intent? Maybe by simply writing it down! Or by elaborating on what few words we have to that effect, and discussing it more. The "core group" wouldn't necessarily "lose" it, so much as a practice amongst all of us, be lost. Part of the mechanism is simply dilution; OK so (say) all 20 of us Jun93 knew this in our heart of hearts; but now in Jan94 there's (say) 50 of us. It's not an item that gets much daily attention. It is easy to imagine, in say a year? someone does Some Thing that is the passion of the moment -- crypto/sexual imagery/"hate" speech (sic)/whatever. Some bunch of old phartz will drag out this Thing, and less pollitically irritating types will say, hey come on, who cares about a bunch of crackers/pornographers/Nazis/wahtevers? Etc... > * I would suggest that the core group identify themselves as such and delegate > to one of its members the responsibility of liaison to the TLG members for > those decisions that don't fall under existing policy. Recently I had the > unfortunate experience of negotiating a deal with one member of the core > group. After I thought I had concluded the deal it turned out that that > individual didn't have the authority to decide that by themselves and the deal > was canceled. In all that, the impression other people had was that I was > trying to sneak something through, which was not my intent. The whole > situation was unfair to me, the person I negotiated with and uncomfortable to > everyone else; a lose-lose situation. My suggestion would clarify those > situations. Yes, this was unfortunate. And it was noones "fault" in any simple way. I agreed it sounded fine, but (1) the environment changed and (2) no less signfigantly, I sinmply ahdn't done my homework. We run reasonbly close to the edge, and boxes on the ethernet at 444 are really T1-connected sites minus the T1, as far as bandwidth usage goes -- as an aside, a "T1" connection isn't 1.5mb/s we're selling, is really 1/1.5mb/s *latency* we're selling. Plus the space-at-444 issue. Plus ethernet security. Plus access. Etc... we can and should discuss this. > > * Let's form coops or collectives within TLG. Let's run TLG itself like a > business. Yes! -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Jan 14 14:44:07 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA11676; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 14:21:48 -0800 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 14:21:48 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Name server: host name lookup failure Message-Id: <199401142221.OAA11676@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-sf-list (hard error -- address deleted) :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-toad-list (hard error -- address deleted) :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-toad-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 501 admin@cybermed.com (Pete Killcommons)... 550 Host unknown (Name server: host not found) >>> MAIL From: <<< 451 [ Connection timed out ] Nameserver timeout for 'admin@tlg.org 501 a2@ah.com (Arthur Abraham),hughes@ah.com (Eric Hughes)... 550 Host unknown (Name server: no data known for name) ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA11675; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 14:21:46 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvywf08551; Fri, 14 Jan 94 17:25:36 -0500 Received: from fnord.tlg.org (tlg.org) by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21462; Fri, 14 Jan 94 14:25:24 PST Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA11659; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 14:20:22 -0800 From: tomj@fnord.tlg.org (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401142220.OAA11659@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Tom's thoughts on TLG [WAS: TLG Jan 94 news...] To: ee@lever.com (Edward Elhauge) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 14:20:21 -0800 (PST) Cc: the-little-garden@cygnus.com In-Reply-To: from "Edward Elhauge" at Jan 12, 94 02:53:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 7298 > I'd say that for people interested in collective projects, the models > presented are straw dogs. Unless one is ideologically committed to consensus > process it is a sure fire way to be socially ineffectual. (Which in my opinion > is the only reason to start a collective to begin with.) I have some special > insight into the Nomenus saga in that I was the catalyst for a major change in > how it was run. I admit you are correct. As I said in reply to Roger, my point was to shock us from using "coop" so loosely. I have no particular love for their process. > BTW, the 250 members of the board of directors was just a creative way to get > around the rules for non-profits. The STATE tries to create rules that > encourage top-down organizations with a powerless membership base. By making > everyone a member of the board of directors, after signing a paper to uphold > our statement of purpose, they were legally entitled to equal say. If we had > made the power situation based on trust eventually some on the board of > directors would have felt self-righteous enough to do what they though was > right rather than what the members thought was right [particularly with > Radical Faeiries and their "divine" inspiration]. A creative solution to the legal requirement, and it may have slightly held back the self-appointed... and pointful to us in that, in my experience, all of these formal (to whatever degree) system' unstated goal is to prevent a few from controlling the many, using rules. And as a rule of thumb, we all can observe that pretty much any system of ruls can be subverted in pretty much any way by creative people. The one thing that wards off mostof it is effective (effective!) communication. > * I sort of agree with Tom with respect to the basic service. Perhaps there > would be no point to a collective. But maybe there is a way to form > collectives within TLG to provide supplementary services. In particular I am > paying $70 per month to UUNET to get a complete News feed. I would encourage > other people who are paying for their News feed to contact me and see if we > can pool our resources to reduce our costs. I think it's an excellent idea, a natural break point, and the specific example, a good one to start with. NNTP servers are *the* hottest item I get Q's about and cnnot provide decent A's. [On that particular subj, a number of people can infinitely-loan older, full-size 200+ SCSI drives; we should parallel 'em, and make a server. Lets put this on the ageenda?] ) I think it's an excellent idea, a natural break point, and the specific example, a good one to start with. NNTP servers are *the* hottest item I get Q's about and cnnot provide decent A's. [On that particular subj, a number of people can infinitely-loan older, full-size 200+ SCSI drives; we should parallel 'em, and make a server. Lets put this on the ageenda?] > I agree that sooner or later we have to pay for all the hours Tom spends. I am > not asking for a free ride. It's just that if other members demand higher > levels of service than I need and we are splitting the bill evenly I'll > eventually wind up paying more than the $70/month that I pay now. Also right > now Tom J. is working at this-is-a-low-key-bunch-of-people rates, if the > attitude of enough members is to jump down his throat any time there is an > hour outage, even on a weekend night, he might charge > this-is-a-bunch-of-assholes rates. I try to only call him when I am at wits > end or don't known the status of the net, even then I try to be as brief as > possible. Unless we encourage that sort of culture our costs are bound to rise > uncontrollably. Good points. I think by staying clear on what "TLG" provides (bits to your door, not much ese) we'll minimize (though not eliminate) it. Groups, collective or otherwise, that provide services to TL members, and as members get access to "stuff" (internal ethernet), might solve it. Things that can become burdens to provide centrally (ie. me or whoever) can split off. [On that last, say NNTP servers on Toad all, PA or 444 Ethernet, there's issues... hosts on ethernets can be cracked on sniffers installed; bandwith usage; etc. All resolvable.] > >but by setting precedent, such as the resell-ability and no > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ > >restrictions on use. Though if we don't get explicit on THAT as > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >well I can easily see it getting lost in the haze of the future. > > No restriction on resell-ability is a major plus in TLG, most vendors seem to > be fairly relaxed about "restrictions on use", although I assume that if you > wanted to do something controversial, such as anonymous, encrypting > remailers, they might pull the plug on you. Why would this form of contract be > "lost in the haze of the future"? The core group would have to choose to do > this, it won't happen like a volcanic eruption. How could we get better > assurances that this won't happen, other than your stated intent? Maybe by simply writing it down! Or by elaborating on what few words we have to that effect, and discussing it more. The "core group" wouldn't necessarily "lose" it, so much as a practice amongst all of us, be lost. Part of the mechanism is simply dilution; OK so (say) all 20 of us Jun93 knew this in our heart of hearts; but now in Jan94 there's (say) 50 of us. It's not an item that gets much daily attention. It is easy to imagine, in say a year? someone does Some Thing that is the passion of the moment -- crypto/sexual imagery/"hate" speech (sic)/whatever. Some bunch of old phartz will drag out this Thing, and less pollitically irritating types will say, hey come on, who cares about a bunch of crackers/pornographers/Nazis/wahtevers? Etc... > * I would suggest that the core group identify themselves as such and delegate > to one of its members the responsibility of liaison to the TLG members for > those decisions that don't fall under existing policy. Recently I had the > unfortunate experience of negotiating a deal with one member of the core > group. After I thought I had concluded the deal it turned out that that > individual didn't have the authority to decide that by themselves and the deal > was canceled. In all that, the impression other people had was that I was > trying to sneak something through, which was not my intent. The whole > situation was unfair to me, the person I negotiated with and uncomfortable to > everyone else; a lose-lose situation. My suggestion would clarify those > situations. Yes, this was unfortunate. And it was noones "fault" in any simple way. I agreed it sounded fine, but (1) the environment changed and (2) no less signfigantly, I sinmply ahdn't done my homework. We run reasonbly close to the edge, and boxes on the ethernet at 444 are really T1-connected sites minus the T1, as far as bandwidth usage goes -- as an aside, a "T1" connection isn't 1.5mb/s we're selling, is really 1/1.5mb/s *latency* we're selling. Plus the space-at-444 issue. Plus ethernet security. Plus access. Etc... we can and should discuss this. > > * Let's form coops or collectives within TLG. Let's run TLG itself like a > business. Yes! -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj@fido.wps.com Fri Jan 14 14:50:27 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA11734; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 14:50:24 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA08471; Fri, 14 Jan 94 14:55:00 -0800 Received: from naples.gain.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA08392; Fri, 14 Jan 94 14:27:58 -0800 Received: from cayenne (cayenne.gain.com) by naples.gain.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Gain-Naples-Brent-920510) id AA08132 to tomj@wps.com; Fri, 14 Jan 94 14:27:49 PST Received: from augusta.gain.com by cayenne (4.1/SMI-4.1/Gain-Cayenne-drm-011893) id AA11180; Fri, 14 Jan 94 14:27:48 PST Received: from miami.gain.com by augusta.gain.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08347; Fri, 14 Jan 94 14:27:47 PST Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 14:27:47 PST From: john@gain.com (John Coker) Message-Id: <9401142227.AA08347@augusta.gain.com> To: tomj@wps.com Subject: Little Garden Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O I'm interested in finding out more about the services you provide. I would like to connect a small network at home (Palo Alto) to the internet and am looking for a service provider. I was given your name by a friend of mine who said your system was very reliable and your people were knowlegable. I also left a phone message yesterday and another just now. If e-mail is better, you now have my address. Thank you, John Coker GAIN Technology, Inc. (415) 813-8215 From tomj Fri Jan 14 14:58:24 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA11766; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 14:56:36 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401142256.OAA11766@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Service availability To: enge@almaden.ibm.com (Roy Engehausen), Brian.Scearce@Eng.Sun.COM (Brian Scearce) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 14:56:34 -0800 (PST) Cc: brb@renmicro.com (Brian Baird), lnz@dandelion.com (Leonard N. Zubkoff), admin In-Reply-To: <199401130213.SAA09096@tlg.org> from "Roy Engehausen" at Jan 12, 94 06:16:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 4462 Status: O Since we're in the middle of completeing a rather large expansion, we're not in a position to build another POP ourselves. However -- we'd be willing to consider doing so with you, and other people interested. I've cc'd all of the recent inquiries too. Basically the hard part is the startup costs, mainly: leased line and routers. Plus income to pay for the monthly leased lines and TLG fee of $325/mo. You may already have enough people now to cover the ongoing expenses. I have here at least one other person sith serious interest in San Jose access not n the list (voice only). We have a number of options available to persue this. Someone in San Jose will need to have a suitable location for a POP. Residential will do, and has it's advantages, but some sites will have problems with internal phone wiring, especially aparment complexes. Standlone houses will work. COmmercial sites are ideal; the only drawback is that phone lines need to be commercial, the only liaiblity is a slightly higher monthly rate (approx. $15 vs.$12/mo) and higher install ($75 vs. $35 desidential). TLG is just not in a position to front cash for installs and hardware. However, we can waive or lower our one-time connect fees, and you can buy your own router and DSUs, and pay for the installs instead. If you have enough people, these will be comparable per-person than the TLG fees. We could consider it a TLG POP, where TLG does the bookkeeping, and charges each memebr accordingly ($70/mo for modem-based connections, etc), and pays for the leased line to SJ POP. Or we could consider the SJ site to be one 56K "member", and how you arrange your finances internally is up to you. You would pay for the leased-line monthly. TLG is not an out-for-profit business; we can't afford to absorb much loss in exchange for future profits. Our income pretty much covers operating expenses and expansion plus overhead. For us to take on the former, ie. the SJ site is a TLG POP, we would require the right to install new members at the site, and have reasonable acess to it. It might still not be in our best interest, in that San Jose is 50 mi. south of the city, where most of our resources are, though that could be worked out. The latter, this hypothetical SJ site becoming a single TLG member, would not require much cooperation from us. You'll need to research this, but to start I can give you some hints as to cost. 56K leased lines run about $110/mo, plus $6/mi/month. Our end will be 1937 Landings Drive, Mtn. View, telco code 415-903 (what Pacbell will want to know to locate our end of the line; it's just areacode-exchange!) Leased line installs are approx. $1200. Contact Metropolitan Fiber Systems; they may have cheper lines. 415-362-3300. You'll need a pair of 56K DSU's. There are inexpensive ones now; BAT brand is approx. $250 each! COntact John Harkin jh@nbn.com. You'll need a router to handle the incoming 56K. There is a thing called a "NAD" or "NAT", BARRNET uses them. I know abslutely nothing about them. I believe they do 56K only,a dn Ethernet. There is the Morningstar, 56K and Thnnet, approx. $1400. There is the more flexible Livingston IRX-series, which we use. A full-blocn four-port version is $2400. The one-port (plus etherplus maint. port) is about $1700. Youw ill need a "terminal server" to split down to members connections. We use Livingston Portmaster 2E's. They are lifesavers! I recommend nothing else. The 10-port model, expandable in 10-port increments up to 30 ports, costs $2020. Espansion ports cost $600 for 10 ports. I hope this is enuog to start a conversation... Tom Jennings > Hi, > > There are several of us that are interested in using the services > that you provide but only if it is a local call. We are in the > following areas in California: > > Morgan Hill -- 408-779, 778 > San Martin -- 408-683 > Gilroy -- 408-842, 847, 848 > Hollister -- 408-637 > > Can you tell me if this is possible? If not today, are there any > future plans? > > If not, I would be interested in starting a small company to supply > dial-in service in this area. Where would I need a leased line to run > to? > > Another possibility would be a TLG POP here. > > Thanks in advance for your time in researching and answering these > questions. > > Roy Engehausen -- enge@almaden.ibm.com > > -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Fri Jan 14 15:04:42 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA11805; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 15:04:35 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401142304.PAA11805@tlg.org> Subject: Re: info To: sims@pdesds1.scra.org (Jim Sims) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 15:04:34 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401142042.AA23908@pdesds1.noname> from "Jim Sims" at Jan 14, 94 03:42:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1381 Status: OR > unfortunately, that's the whole point. There is *NO*alternative in > this area. > Umm, what is "this area"? I have no idea where you are; I assumed the SF Bay Area... > The main question i have is how to go about contacting some > organization that will allow me to do what (i perceive) you guys do: > > connect my computer to thiers and (and the Internet) so that I have a > local dialup host for folks to have accounts on that can then do > email, telnet, ftp. It wasn't available here either, except with limitations we found unlivable. So we built our own. It was not a small task. We had to go "up" in internet heirarchy til we found one that allowed reselling, the biggest and immediate stumblign block. > Is there anything I need to do (besides buy the host, modems, disks, > set it all up, advertise, market, get customers, admin the whole mess) > beyonf calling up (random example) uunet and sending them $X thousand > $ for a CSU and paying them $Y hundred per month, and gettings > handfuls of leased lines from the phone co? I wish I had easy answers for you. I mean,w e'll gladly connect you to TLG, whereever you might be, but likely leased-line costs will prevent it from happening. 56Kus about $100/mo plus $6/mile/mo. Plus $1000 install. Plus hardware, etc. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj@fido.wps.com Fri Jan 14 15:23:24 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA11869; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 15:23:20 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA08572; Fri, 14 Jan 94 15:27:57 -0800 Received: from kumr.lns.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA06291; Fri, 14 Jan 94 02:07:43 -0800 Received: by kumr.lns.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.3) id ; Fri, 14 Jan 94 02:07 PST Received: by fogcity.org id A1530wk Fri, 14 Jan 94 02:05:04 From: bill.essex@fogcity.org Message-Id: <9401140205.A1530wk@fogcity.org> Organization: Fog City Computer Services X-Mailer: TBBS/PIMP v2.42 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 02:05:04 Subject: TLG FORM To: tomj@wps.com Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O Hi Tom: Pac Bell assured me that they would install my new number at 444 Market Street sometime on Friday, 14th January. -- Bill ================================================================== T H E L I T T L E G A R D E N return this ENTIRE form to: tomj@wps.com (You might want to keep a copy for yourself) Please fill any ***'ed items below (ie. information I don't have) and change any incorrect items, and mail it back to me. Some of it will be posted to a contact list available to little garden members; the rest of it I'll keep private. ---------- Please don't remove anything below this line ---------- Your Little Garden POP will be: RGNet, Inc, suite 3075, 444 Market Street, S.F. 94111 Type of circuit you are installing: voice-grade You've been assigned 8-bit subnet: 140.174.81.xx Initial networks you want routed: fogcity.net For routing purposes, the address of the Little Garden router/gateway ("next hop") is: 140.174.122.3 *You* tell *us* what the first address is on your end (eg. your SLIP or PPP port that's the gateway to your network): fogcity.net PUBLIC INFORMATION: Company/site name (optional): Fog City Computer Services Person/contact name: Bill Essex Voice phone to contact for problems: (415) 863-6965 Domain name you'll register: fogcity.net person@domain to send mail to: bill.essex@fogcity.net TECHNICAL INFORMATION: Do you want SLIP or PPP? (PPP not available in San Francisco yet) SLIP (SLIP only) Want van Jacobson compression? (y,n) [recommended] Y UNLISTED INFORMATION: SLIP link phone number at your site: (415) 863-1541 SLIP Phone/circuit number at TLG site: (415) 989-4012 Mailing address (for billing): Company/person if different: Fog City Computer Services Street, etc: PO Box 14667 City, etc: San Francisco, CA 94114-0667 -- Internet: bill.essex@fogcity.org FidoNet: Bill Essex @ 1:125/100 Snail: Bill Essex / FCCS / PO Box 14667 / San Francisco, CA 94114-0667 / USA Telephony: +1 (415) 863-6965 [voice]; +1 (415) 863-9826 [FAX] From enge@almaden.ibm.com Fri Jan 14 16:09:34 1994 Received: from almaden.ibm.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id QAA11919; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 16:09:32 -0800 Message-Id: <199401150009.QAA11919@tlg.org> Received: from ALMVMA by almaden.ibm.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 3690; Fri, 14 Jan 94 16:14:00 PST Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 15:56:51 PST From: "Roy Engehausen (8-457-2712)" To: tomj@fnord.tlg.org, Brian.Scearce@Eng.Sun.COM cc: brb@renmicro.com, lnz@dandelion.com, admin@fnord.tlg.org Subject: Service availability Status: O Ref: Your note of Fri, 14 Jan 1994 14:56:34 -0800 (PST) Thanks for the note. We will take a look at the information you provided. One important thing is that the Gilroy/Morgan Hill area is NOT a local call to San Jose. The POP would not be reachable by San Jose except as long distance or if we installed FX lines. For what you currently propose, we have the expertise to carry it off ourselves. I am currently the LAN/WAN planner here at the IBM Almaden Lab. For example, last fall I installed our current link to UUNET for Internet service. I also have a 56 kbps line from my house to IBM so I am familiar with the process. We also have some funding. One question arises. We will have a small user base to start until we build it up. Maybe a max of 20-30 subscribers. Would a point-to-point analog line at 14.4 kbps suffice for a while? Roy From C1940@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU Fri Jan 14 16:17:07 1994 Received: from UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id QAA11925; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 16:17:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199401150017.QAA11925@tlg.org> Received: from UMSLVMA by UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 1721; Fri, 14 Jan 94 18:22:19 CST Received: from UMSLVMA (C1940) by UMSLVMA (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with BSMTP id 0466; Fri, 14 Jan 94 18:22:18 CST Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 18:22:08 CST From: C1940@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU Subject: Info To: INFO@TLG.ORG Status: O My apologies if this is being read by a human. From brian@eit.COM Fri Jan 14 16:39:40 1994 Received: from eit.COM by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id QAA11962; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 16:39:34 -0800 Received: by eit.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05969; Fri, 14 Jan 94 16:44:03 PST Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 16:44:03 PST From: brian@eit.COM (Brian Smithson) Message-Id: <9401141644.ZM5967@eitech.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (2.1.4 02apr93) To: info@tlg.org Subject: send info on SLIP/PPP connects Status: O I'm interested in modem-based SLIP/PPP in Sunnyvale. -- -Brian Smithson brian@eit.com Enterprise Integration Technologies +1 415 617 8009 459 Hamilton Avenue, Palo Alto, CA 94301 USA FAX +1 415 617 8019 From nancydrw@netcom.com Fri Jan 14 17:02:12 1994 Received: from mail.netcom.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id RAA11988; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 17:02:02 -0800 Received: from localhost by mail.netcom.com (8.6.4/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id RAA01689; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 17:07:22 -0800 Message-Id: <199401150107.RAA01689@mail.netcom.com> From: nancydrw@netcom.com (Thaddeus R. Croyle (Girl Sleuth)) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 17:07:22 PST X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: info@tlg.org Subject: stuff Status: O From tomj Fri Jan 14 17:55:30 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id RAA12072; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 17:55:29 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401150155.RAA12072@tlg.org> Subject: I need to retreive a mesage! To: admin Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 17:55:28 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 376 Status: O I cc'd admin on a message to Ed Welbourne of something, the thick-headed person about schools and the internet. I need a copy of my reply to him! I believe I CC'd admin -- could either Tim or Flesh F)orward me a copy again? Thanks! (I think I've found some school-savvy person to help out...) -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From MAILER-DAEMON@fido.wps.com Fri Jan 14 18:08:13 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA12116; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 18:08:09 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA09154; Fri, 14 Jan 94 17:56:30 -0800 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 17:56:30 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@wps.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown Message-Id: <9401150156.AA09154@wps.com> To: owner-garden-list@fido.wps.com Status: O ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 admin@cybermed.com (Pete Killcommons)... Host unknown 550 root@skidpad.palo-alto.ca.us... Host unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: from cygnus.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA09152; Fri, 14 Jan 94 17:56:30 -0800 Received: from uu3.psi.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10887; Fri, 14 Jan 94 17:56:26 PST Received: from seiden.com by uu3.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA25196 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 94 20:52:09 -0500 Received: by seiden.com (4.1/1.39) id AA07479; Fri, 14 Jan 94 17:44:56 PST From: mis@seiden.com (Mark Seiden) Message-Id: <9401150144.AA07479@seiden.com> Subject: Re: TLG Jan 94 news... To: tomj@fnord.tlg.org (Tom Jennings) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 17:44:55 -0800 (PST) Cc: private-garden@cygnus.com In-Reply-To: <199401142152.NAA11538@tlg.org> from "Tom Jennings" at Jan 14, 94 01:52:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2158 > I agree too. A few weeks back, I was utterly swamped with > new-member-help. I asked for volunteers for helping people out. I got > some. I didn't follow through -- the problem at the moment got solved, > and I realzied we didn't have a ready-0made method to deal with this as > an ongoing problem. > food coops solve this problem through a work requirement for members. take the different tasks and divide them up. each member agrees to serve n weeks duty per year on new-member-help and n weeks duty per year doing on-call help. with around 50 members and 104 service weeks to cover that means around two weeks per year providing coverage (presumably these should be scheduled by folks in advance for weeks when they have a "normal" schedule and are not away at a business trip or on holiday. perhaps we should discuss whether if people don't have the time to spend *ever* they might be able to buy a substitute? > It's just as easy to do the work to solve the problem, as it was to make > the call for volunteers, and get them hooked up. We need a process for > this -- volunteer anyone? (recursive pun, sorry). Seriously. Should I > say, "New member user@host.domain needs help with XYZ? Can someone > respond directly?" What if no one does? What if (N > 1) does? > Basuically, how to connect new members to volunteeers that doesn't let > 'em fall through the cracks? > the extent of coordination on your part ought to be pointing the new-member-help alias at an archive file plus the member-on-duty, and doing the same with the on-call-help phone (e.g. using call-forwarding or a retargetable 800 number like the sort cable and wireless provide). > This is the sort of thing thta I stumble upon in my daily flogging > about. And the method I (or anyone else would) go through in deciding > where to apply effort. If long-term-solution B is even close to > immediate-solution A, I favor B. But these few critical months A get > greater weight. See? (Can some one run with this from here?!) > > -- > The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org > -- mark seiden, mis@seiden.com, 1-(415) 592 8559 (voice) From MAILER-DAEMON@fido.wps.com Fri Jan 14 18:25:51 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA12151; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 18:25:47 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA09210; Fri, 14 Jan 94 18:12:53 -0800 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 18:12:53 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@wps.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown Message-Id: <9401150212.AA09210@wps.com> To: owner-garden-list@fido.wps.com Status: O ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 421 nbn.com.tcpld... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with nbn.nbn.com 550 admin@cybermed.com (Pete Killcommons)... Host unknown 550 root@skidpad.palo-alto.ca.us... Host unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: from cygnus.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA09208; Fri, 14 Jan 94 18:12:53 -0800 Received: from fnord.tlg.org (tlg.org) by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11230; Fri, 14 Jan 94 18:12:51 PST Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA12112; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 18:08:00 -0800 From: tomj@fnord.tlg.org (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401150208.SAA12112@tlg.org> Subject: Re: TLG Jan 94 news... To: mis@seiden.com (Mark Seiden) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 18:07:59 -0800 (PST) Cc: private-garden@cygnus.com In-Reply-To: <9401150144.AA07479@seiden.com> from "Mark Seiden" at Jan 14, 94 05:44:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2642 > > I agree too. A few weeks back, I was utterly swamped with > > new-member-help. I asked for volunteers for helping people out. I got > > some. I didn't follow through -- the problem at the moment got solved, > > and I realzied we didn't have a ready-0made method to deal with this as > > an ongoing problem. > > > > food coops solve this problem through a work requirement for members. > take the different tasks and divide them up. Pretty much any old upright human body can drop groceries into bags. The problems we have are fairly specialized. Some are general though. Probably I overestimate the match-up problem. I think we need a pool; for example, I'm utterly useless with Sun- or Linux-specific OS issues, and really good at general debugging and most modem problems. Etc. > each member agrees to serve n weeks duty per year on new-member-help > and n weeks duty per year doing on-call help. with around 50 members [...] > perhaps we should discuss whether if people don't have the time to > spend *ever* they might be able to buy a substitute? Likely we can do it informally, without penalties. Non-participating members don't have a load attached, really, unlike a food coop. So probably we could tolerate the usual 10% doing the work -- on this specific new-member-help problem, how a bout one-liner resumes of people to contact: Tom Jennings Modem issues, ... Mark Seiden BSD questions (add to the list) ... ... Then we simply pass the list to newbies. We change your name when you've had enough ("can you take me off the help list? I think 12 years is enough.") Then we can petition for a new victim. Impose formality when this process fails. (Possibly unlikely, if we can take advantage of New Blood's enthusiasm continuously... :-) questions (add to the list) ... ... Then we simply pass the list to newbies. We change your name when you've had enough ("can you take me off the help list? I think 12 years is enough.") Then we can petition for a new victim. Impose formality when this process fails. (Possibly unlikely, if we can take advantage of New Blood's enthusiasm continuously... :-) > the extent of coordination on your part ought to be pointing the > new-member-help alias at an archive file plus the member-on-duty, and > doing the same with the on-call-help phone (e.g. using call-forwarding > or a retargetable 800 number like the sort cable and wireless provide). Initially: tech-help@tlg.org... goes to all volunteers. Once you pick one/get picked, simpyl email/talk to that person as arranged between them? -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Fri Jan 14 18:44:38 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA12267; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 18:44:35 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401150244.SAA12267@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Service availability To: enge@almaden.ibm.com (Roy Engehausen) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 18:44:33 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <199401150009.QAA11919@tlg.org> from "Roy Engehausen" at Jan 14, 94 03:56:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 613 Status: O It all sounds pretty good. If you decide to go ahead, I belive we can work out details to our mutual satisfaction. > One question arises. We will have a small user base to start until we > build it up. Maybe a max of 20-30 subscribers. Would a > point-to-point analog line at 14.4 kbps suffice for a while? Do you mean, install a modem-based link for now, from TLG to your location? It should be more than enough for mail, though obviously not too much else, for 20 people. Of course, any N is inifinitely greater than zero! -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From GREG@mail.msm.com Fri Jan 14 18:57:29 1994 Received: from mail.msm.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA12306; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 18:57:26 -0800 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 19:02:05 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Merrell To: admin@tlg.org CC: GREG@mail.msm.com Message-Id: <940114190206.90@mail.msm.com> Subject: Re: TLG Jan 94 news... Status: O Tom, I'm happy to help new people here in the South Bay get going. I've got reasonable experience with a wide variety of modems as well as dealing with many other communications related issues. I'll even be happy to help people who are fence sitters on how they want to do things evaluate the alternatives. Greg =============================My return addresses are========================== Greg Merrell Internet: greg@msm.com MSM Company Internet Access Packet Radio: kc6tyj @ n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na Cupertino, CA +1 408-253-2290 (voice) +1 408-253-0590 (fax) ============================================================================== From GREG@mail.msm.com Fri Jan 14 19:07:49 1994 Received: from mail.msm.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA12311; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 19:07:46 -0800 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 19:12:27 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Merrell To: admin@tlg.org CC: GREG@mail.msm.com Message-Id: <940114191227.90@mail.msm.com> Subject: Let's try this again in your preferred format Status: O Greg Merrell Modems, VAX/VMS, Macintosh, Portmaster, network troubleshooting From pozar Fri Jan 14 23:27:12 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id XAA12663; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 23:27:10 -0800 From: pozar (Tim Pozar) Message-Id: <199401150727.XAA12663@tlg.org> Subject: Re: stuff To: nancydrw@netcom.com (Thaddeus R. Croyle (Girl Sleuth)) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 23:27:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199401150107.RAA01689@mail.netcom.com> from "Thaddeus R. Croyle (Girl Sleuth)" at Jan 14, 94 05:07:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 404 Status: O I was just going through the list of folks that queried our mail-bot for information on The Little Garden IP service. Did the information sheet answer the questions that you had? If not, please feel free to drop me a line. Thanks... Tim -- Internet: pozar@tlg.org Snail: Tim Pozar / TLG / PO Box 410923 / San Francisco CA 94141-0923 POTS: +1 415 487-1902 From pozar Fri Jan 14 23:28:09 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id XAA12673; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 23:28:01 -0800 From: pozar (Tim Pozar) Message-Id: <199401150728.XAA12673@tlg.org> Subject: Re: send info on SLIP/PPP connects To: brian@eit.COM (Brian Smithson) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 23:28:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9401141644.ZM5967@eitech.com> from "Brian Smithson" at Jan 14, 94 04:43:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 495 Status: O Brian Smithson wrote: > I'm interested in modem-based SLIP/PPP in Sunnyvale. Hey Brian... I was just going through the list of folks that queried our mail-bot for information on The Little Garden IP service. Did the information sheet answer the questions that you had? If not, please feel free to drop me a line. Thanks... Tim -- Internet: pozar@tlg.org Snail: Tim Pozar / TLG / PO Box 410923 / San Francisco CA 94141-0923 POTS: +1 415 487-1902 From pozar Fri Jan 14 23:28:41 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id XAA12683; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 23:28:39 -0800 From: pozar (Tim Pozar) Message-Id: <199401150728.XAA12683@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Info To: C1940@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 23:28:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199401150017.QAA11925@tlg.org> from "C1940@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU" at Jan 14, 94 06:21:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 496 Status: O C1940@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU wrote: > My apologies if this is being read by a human. Not at all. I was just going through the list of folks that queried our mail-bot for information on The Little Garden IP service. Did the information sheet answer the questions that you had? If not, please feel free to drop me a line. Thanks... Tim -- Internet: pozar@tlg.org Snail: Tim Pozar / TLG / PO Box 410923 / San Francisco CA 94141-0923 POTS: +1 415 487-1902 From pozar Fri Jan 14 23:31:20 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id XAA12702; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 23:31:16 -0800 From: pozar (Tim Pozar) Message-Id: <199401150731.XAA12702@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Little Garden To: john@gain.com (John Coker) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 23:31:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9401142227.AA08347@augusta.gain.com> from "John Coker" at Jan 14, 94 02:27:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 793 Status: O John Coker wrote: > I'm interested in finding out more about the services you provide. I would > like to connect a small network at home (Palo Alto) to the internet and am > looking for a service provider. I was given your name by a friend of mine > who said your system was very reliable and your people were knowlegable. You flatter... > I also left a phone message yesterday and another just now. You can also try me at 415-788-2022 during weekdays. > If e-mail is better, you now have my address. Did the information sheet answer the questions that you had? If not, please feel free to drop me a line. Thanks... Tim -- Internet: pozar@tlg.org Snail: Tim Pozar / TLG / PO Box 410923 / San Francisco CA 94141-0923 POTS: +1 415 487-1902 From pozar Fri Jan 14 23:41:04 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id XAA12767; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 23:41:00 -0800 From: pozar (Tim Pozar) Message-Id: <199401150741.XAA12767@tlg.org> Subject: Re: your mail To: dlbb0@amdahl.com (David Black) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 23:40:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "David Black" at Jan 14, 94 01:02:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 623 Status: O David Black wrote: > My name is David Black. Please call me at your earliest convenience. > Daytime: 408-992-3271, evenings: 408-738-4467 > > I am very interested in your SLIP service and wish to ask a > few questions not addressed in your documentation provided > via anonymous FTP before signing up. Woops... Just got your message tonight. You can try me Monday at 415-788-2022. If you have any other questions, please feel free to drop me email. Tim -- Internet: pozar@tlg.org Snail: Tim Pozar / TLG / PO Box 410923 / San Francisco CA 94141-0923 POTS: +1 415 487-1902 From admin@tlg.org Sat Jan 15 01:14:05 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id BAA12853; Sat, 15 Jan 1994 01:13:58 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA10587; Sat, 15 Jan 94 01:18:49 -0800 From: tomj@wps.com (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <9401150918.AA10587@wps.com> Subject: Re: Seattle low-cost provider (fwd) To: garden-list@tlg.org Date: Sat, 15 Jan 1994 01:18:48 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2883 Status: O Some of you might rememer Adam Fast, he showed up at one of the meetings at 425 Market... and last summer was poking around for ways to do a TLG-like thing in Seattle. Well apparently they' went and done the deed. Forwarded message: > From adamfast@u.washington.edu Fri Jan 14 21:54:03 1994 > X-Sender: adamfast@goren2.u.washington.edu > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 21:53:31 -0800 (PST) > From: adam fast > Sender: adam fast > Reply-To: adam fast > Subject: Re: Seattle low-cost provider > To: Randy Bush > Cc: Tom Jennings , tim pozar > In-Reply-To: > Message-Id: > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > > > On Fri, 14 Jan 1994, Randy Bush wrote: > > > TJ's POP has been running for some months. Portland's goes live next week. > > Wazzup? > > do a whois spi.net, or ping spi.net... :) > > our POP is live an on the internet, but we have a few more days to go > before all our phone lines get installed and we have our members up. > > we have a netblazer st with 26 ports, tho only 13 members at the present > time-- doing a TLG kinda thingy with PPP/SLIP over voice phone lines using > 14.4kbps modems. we just picked the cheapest, simplest solution we could > work out on short notice-- we got a deal on a netblazer, co-located with a > hungry, local Sprintlink reseller, worked a deal so we can resell > bandwidth, and we are trying to ramp up to having an organized grass-roots > internet co-op. > > we're incorating as a co-op in the state of washington soon; the technical > stuff (and the holidays) have kept us busy... when the bits get flowing > smoothly in the next few months we will get out there and get a bunch of > other members, higher bandwidth members hopefully, so we can move out and > into our own POP. (more than likely, some sort of thing like toad hall-- > wire up some sort of apartment or office building for ethernet, > preferably one of the buildings in downtown that is on the fiber rings so > we aren't forced into dealing with USWest so much...) > > > randy, i just want to say, thanks for your help-- without you and tom and > tim we wouldn't have been able to pull this off. we'd like to keep in > contact, just to stick together as small internet providers...? maybe > forming a trade association or something would be possible down the line > a little. (sorry the deal about hauling a line up from portland didn't > work out-- we just didn't have enough members' committments to be able to > afford it...) > > take care > adam > > (206) 996 0794 <--- new phone number > > > > -- Tom Jennings -- tomj@wps.com -- World Power Systems -- San Francisco, Calif. From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 15 01:28:34 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id BAA12854; Sat, 15 Jan 1994 01:14:01 -0800 Date: Sat, 15 Jan 1994 01:14:01 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Connection timed out during client DATA 250 with pss.com. Message-Id: <199401150914.BAA12854@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-sf-list (hard error -- address deleted) :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-toad-list (hard error -- address deleted) :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-toad-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 501 admin@cybermed.com (Pete Killcommons)... 550 Host unknown (Name server: host not found) 501 a2@ah.com (Arthur Abraham),hughes@ah.com (Eric Hughes)... 550 Host unknown (Name server: no data known for name) ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id BAA12853; Sat, 15 Jan 1994 01:13:58 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA10587; Sat, 15 Jan 94 01:18:49 -0800 From: tomj@wps.com (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <9401150918.AA10587@wps.com> Subject: Re: Seattle low-cost provider (fwd) To: garden-list@tlg.org Date: Sat, 15 Jan 1994 01:18:48 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2883 Some of you might rememer Adam Fast, he showed up at one of the meetings at 425 Market... and last summer was poking around for ways to do a TLG-like thing in Seattle. Well apparently they' went and done the deed. Forwarded message: > From adamfast@u.washington.edu Fri Jan 14 21:54:03 1994 > X-Sender: adamfast@goren2.u.washington.edu > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 21:53:31 -0800 (PST) > From: adam fast > Sender: adam fast > Reply-To: adam fast > Subject: Re: Seattle low-cost provider > To: Randy Bush > Cc: Tom Jennings , tim pozar > In-Reply-To: > Message-Id: > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > > > On Fri, 14 Jan 1994, Randy Bush wrote: > > > TJ's POP has been running for some months. Portland's goes live next week. > > Wazzup? > > do a whois spi.net, or ping spi.net... :) > > our POP is live an on the internet, but we have a few more days to go > before all our phone lines get installed and we have our members up. > > we have a netblazer st with 26 ports, tho only 13 members at the present > time-- doing a TLG kinda thingy with PPP/SLIP over voice phone lines using > 14.4kbps modems. we just picked the cheapest, simplest solution we could > work out on short notice-- we got a deal on a netblazer, co-located with a > hungry, local Sprintlink reseller, worked a deal so we can resell > bandwidth, and we are trying to ramp up to having an organized grass-roots > internet co-op. > > we're incorating as a co-op in the state of washington soon; the technical > stuff (and the holidays) have kept us busy... when the bits get flowing > smoothly in the next few months we will get out there and get a bunch of > other members, higher bandwidth members hopefully, so we can move out and > into our own POP. (more than likely, some sort of thing like toad hall-- > wire up some sort of apartment or office building for ethernet, > preferably one of the buildings in downtown that is on the fiber rings so > we aren't forced into dealing with USWest so much...) > > > randy, i just want to say, thanks for your help-- without you and tom and > tim we wouldn't have been able to pull this off. we'd like to keep in > contact, just to stick together as small internet providers...? maybe > forming a trade association or something would be possible down the line > a little. (sorry the deal about hauling a line up from portland didn't > work out-- we just didn't have enough members' committments to be able to > afford it...) > > take care > adam > > (206) 996 0794 <--- new phone number > > > > -- Tom Jennings -- tomj@wps.com -- World Power Systems -- San Francisco, Calif. From shelter!f33.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Barry.Kapke@kumr.lns.com Sat Jan 15 04:57:05 1994 Received: from kumr.lns.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id EAA13009; Sat, 15 Jan 1994 04:56:46 -0800 Received: by kumr.lns.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.3) id ; Sat, 15 Jan 94 05:01 PST Received: by shelter.FIDONET.ORG (mailout1.26); Sat, 15 Jan 94 04:17:20 PST Date: Sat, 15 Jan 94 02:19:14 PST Message-ID: <6938.2D37DED0@shelter.FIDONET.ORG> From: Barry.Kapke@f33.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Barry Kapke) Subject: info To: info@tlg.org X-Mailer: mailout v1.26 released Status: O Please send info. -- Barry Kapke - via FidoNet node 1:125/1 UUCP: ...!uunet!kumr!shelter!33!Barry.Kapke INTERNET: Barry.Kapke@f33.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG From tomm@ingres.com Mon Jan 17 22:18:35 1994 Received: from ingres.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id WAA01294; Mon, 17 Jan 1994 22:18:26 -0800 From: tomm@ingres.com Received: from pony.ingres.com by ingres.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/INGRES/zool/06.06.93) id AA21294; Mon, 17 Jan 94 22:19:08 PST Received: from monster by pony.ingres.com (5.65c8+/INGRES/Router/pony/08.16.93) id AA24870; Mon, 17 Jan 1994 22:19:05 -0800 Received: by monsterngres.com.ingres.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/INGRES/AIX/monster/08.16.93) id AA36210; Mon, 17 Jan 1994 22:07:03 -0800 Message-Id: <9401180607.AA36210@monsterngres.com.ingres.com> Subject: Re: The Little Garden -- Internet connectivity To: Info@tlg.org Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 22:07:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199401170212.SAA15049@tlg.org> from "Info@tlg.org" at Jan 16, 94 06:12:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 417 Status: O Hi, I'm very interested in your v32bis service and have a couple of questions for you: 1. I have 1 telebit world blazer, what do you like people to buy for "your" end of the connection? 2. Currently, I have a registered Class C network. I do not have any internet connectivity. If I connect to your network, will your end do the routing to get my class C network connected? thanks, --tom From admin@tlg.org Mon Jan 17 23:30:08 1994 Received: from colossus.apple.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id XAA01352; Mon, 17 Jan 1994 23:29:42 -0800 Received: from cfcl.com by colossus.apple.com with SMTP (5.65/8-Oct-1993-eef) id AA19221; Mon, 17 Jan 94 23:22:03 -0800 Received: by cfcl.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04987; Mon, 17 Jan 94 23:22:13 PST Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 23:22:13 PST From: rdm@cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Message-Id: <9401180722.AA04987@cfcl.com> To: garden-list@tlg.org Status: O logo > one thing they (spi.net) has that TLG does not is a cool logo. Well, excuuuuse me! -r P.S. Two sets of TLG business cards will be available Wed. night. Folks can look at mine and decide how uncool my proposed logo is... Then they grab handfuls of gnu's to leave lying around in useful places... From admin@tlg.org Mon Jan 17 23:30:49 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id XAA01357; Mon, 17 Jan 1994 23:30:46 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvzis14498; Tue, 18 Jan 94 02:31:09 -0500 Received: from colossus.apple.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05900; Mon, 17 Jan 94 23:31:02 PST Received: from cfcl.com by colossus.apple.com with SMTP (5.65/8-Oct-1993-eef) id AA19379; Mon, 17 Jan 94 23:26:12 -0800 Received: by cfcl.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04998; Mon, 17 Jan 94 23:26:23 PST Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 23:26:23 PST From: rdm@cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Message-Id: <9401180726.AA04998@cfcl.com> To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Another country heard from... Status: O > Tsk. If you're in the SF Bay Area, you might consider The Little Garden > Network, a loosely organized outfit that provides unrestricted Internet > access very cheaply ($70/month for a continuous V.32bis feed). Contact > info@tlg.org for details... Look you guys, just STOP, ok? Every month I hear about some new service offering dedicated T3 service for the low-low cost of $4.95 per month, not counting the modems which are an extra $5/year rental (and everyone goes "Woooo! _five_ dollars! Whadda ripoff!") and it JUST MAKES ME SICK! In France and Germany you can just forget about it. No amount of money will suffice, it just ain't for sale. Here in jolly old Ireland I can get dedicated 14.4K service for the low-low cost of only $15,000/yr! Hey! We're cookin' now! Only that doesn't cover the modems, those are another $2300 (hey, these are super-deluxe Zyxel 14.4K modems donchaknow, a grand apiece is _cheap_!). Feh. You guys just don't know how good you've got it, and I sentence you all to 2 year contracts doing X.400 for Bosnian Telecom - the folks who's job ads in the Irish Times say (I am not making this up) "Military experience a plus." From admin@tlg.org Tue Jan 18 07:08:06 1994 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id HAA01742; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 07:08:01 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvzjw02205; Tue, 18 Jan 94 10:07:14 -0500 Received: by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10430; Tue, 18 Jan 94 07:05:40 PST Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 07:05:40 PST From: gumby@cygnus.com (D. V. Henkel-Wallace) Message-Id: <9401181505.AA10430@cygnus.com> To: garden-list@tlg.org Subject: oops, now I get two Status: O gumby@cygnus.com and gumby3@cygnus.com both appear to be on the list. Coule you leave only the gumby3 address? Thanks, g From admin@tlg.org Tue Jan 18 07:08:52 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id HAA01747; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 07:08:48 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvzjw15416; Tue, 18 Jan 94 10:08:40 -0500 Received: by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10448; Tue, 18 Jan 94 07:07:21 PST Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 07:07:21 PST From: gumby@cygnus.com (D. V. Henkel-Wallace) Message-Id: <9401181507.AA10448@cygnus.com> To: garden-list@tlg.org Subject: belay that Status: O I just asked your smtp server -- it must be something else. From admin@tlg.org Tue Jan 18 08:47:13 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id IAA01848; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 08:47:08 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvzkd18207; Tue, 18 Jan 94 11:46:32 -0500 Received: from openlink.openlink.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12523; Tue, 18 Jan 94 08:45:59 PST Received: by openlink.openlink.com with UUCP id AA00943 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for the-little-garden@cygnus.com); Tue, 18 Jan 1994 08:47:00 -0800 Received: by everest.com (NX5.67c/NeXT-1.0+/Anterior) id AA07867; Tue, 18 Jan 94 08:43:32 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 08:43:32 -0800 From: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen) Message-Id: <9401181643.AA07867@everest.com> Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.87.1) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.87.1) To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Supra power cube needed Status: O Greetings Fellow Gardeners, My power cube for my Supra (boo, hiss) died and I am without a net connection until I get it replaced. I ordered three AT&T DataPorts, but they will not be in for a week or two. Does anyone have a spare Supra power cube they would be willing to lend me for two weeks or less? Cheers, Robert From Postmaster@net.bio.net Tue Jan 18 08:48:55 1994 Received: from net.bio.net by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id IAA01853; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 08:48:52 -0800 Received: from tlg.org by net.bio.net (5.65/IG-2.0) with SMTP id AA16875; Tue, 18 Jan 94 08:49:29 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 08:49:29 -0800 From: Postmaster@net.bio.net (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 1 Message-Id: <9401181649.AA16875@net.bio.net> To: Status: O ----- Transcript of session follows ----- slocal: no such local user as whoami: 554 "|/turbo/cf/shibumi/bin/mhfront"... unknown mailer error 1 ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: from tlg.org by net.bio.net (5.65/IG-2.0) with SMTP id AA16873; Tue, 18 Jan 94 08:49:29 -0800 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id IAA01848; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 08:47:08 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvzkd18207; Tue, 18 Jan 94 11:46:32 -0500 Received: from openlink.openlink.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12523; Tue, 18 Jan 94 08:45:59 PST Received: by openlink.openlink.com with UUCP id AA00943 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for the-little-garden@cygnus.com); Tue, 18 Jan 1994 08:47:00 -0800 Received: by everest.com (NX5.67c/NeXT-1.0+/Anterior) id AA07867; Tue, 18 Jan 94 08:43:32 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 08:43:32 -0800 From: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen) Message-Id: <9401181643.AA07867@everest.com> Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.87.1) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.87.1) To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Supra power cube needed Greetings Fellow Gardeners, My power cube for my Supra (boo, hiss) died and I am without a net connection until I get it replaced. I ordered three AT&T DataPorts, but they will not be in for a week or two. Does anyone have a spare Supra power cube they would be willing to lend me for two weeks or less? Cheers, Robert From glidedw@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu Tue Jan 18 09:18:51 1994 Received: from sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id JAA01875; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 09:18:50 -0800 Received: by sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA00437; Mon, 17 Jan 1994 10:00:13 -0800 Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 10:00:13 -0800 From: glidedw@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Godzilla's Home Boy) Message-Id: <9401171800.AA00437@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu> To: admin@tlg.org Subject: pgp key exchange Status: O Hi Tom, I don't know if this will ever be useful, but this might. My pgp key, yours, if you have on in exchange. -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.3a mQCNAi06KTsAAAEEAMgSS0dQi4WE/as/HAbG3X2zS6ztZaYNiRgwwsmEjMAw3HEA AbwV9wKO5Vs5PI8Tr1KgIXzs0IyKcAOEbz7rJ90WW/KwEAVEyBsXW4HHoacPCZ8b VeINTlf9+qrfKIgRERpZua1ApFf94n5xtXARJqQPQQOwXWJsIN4rWSibtI0BAAUR tC1naGV0dG8gZ2VuZXJhbGlzdCA8Z2xpZGVkd0BzZnN1dmF4MS5zZnN1LmVkdT4= =t2Wv -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- bye From admin@tlg.org Tue Jan 18 10:24:21 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA01925; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 10:24:17 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvzkj19762; Tue, 18 Jan 94 13:24:33 -0500 Received: from gw.wired.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14883; Tue, 18 Jan 94 10:23:50 PST Received: from [140.174.72.133] by gw.wired.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA07745; Tue, 18 Jan 94 10:22:57 -0800 Message-Id: <9401181822.AA07745@wired.com> X-Sender: will@gw.wired.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 10:26:32 -0800 To: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen), the-little-garden@cygnus.com From: Will Kreth Subject: Re: Supra power cube needed Status: O At 8:43 AM 1/18/94 -0800, Robert D. Nielsen wrote: >Greetings Fellow Gardeners, > >My power cube for my Supra (boo, hiss) died and I am without a net connection >until I get >it replaced. I ordered three AT&T DataPorts, but they will not be in for a >week or two. > >Does anyone have a spare Supra power cube they would be willing to lend me for >two >weeks or less? > >Cheers, >Robert Robert- We lost a power supply for a Stupra modem ourselves. A generic Radio Shark AC adapter will do. ---------------------------------- Radio Hack Cat. Number 273-1611A Output: 9V ac 1.3 Amps Less than $15 Will =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Will.Kreth+++Online.Ambassador++++info@wired.com Wired.Magazine++544++2nd.St.+++SF.CA++94107++USA =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From Postmaster@net.bio.net Tue Jan 18 10:25:54 1994 Received: from net.bio.net by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA01930; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 10:25:52 -0800 Received: from tlg.org by net.bio.net (5.65/IG-2.0) with SMTP id AA21161; Tue, 18 Jan 94 10:26:30 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 10:26:30 -0800 From: Postmaster@net.bio.net (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 1 Message-Id: <9401181826.AA21161@net.bio.net> To: Status: O ----- Transcript of session follows ----- slocal: no such local user as whoami: 554 "|/turbo/cf/shibumi/bin/mhfront"... unknown mailer error 1 ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: from tlg.org by net.bio.net (5.65/IG-2.0) with SMTP id AA21158; Tue, 18 Jan 94 10:26:30 -0800 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA01925; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 10:24:17 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvzkj19762; Tue, 18 Jan 94 13:24:33 -0500 Received: from gw.wired.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14883; Tue, 18 Jan 94 10:23:50 PST Received: from [140.174.72.133] by gw.wired.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA07745; Tue, 18 Jan 94 10:22:57 -0800 Message-Id: <9401181822.AA07745@wired.com> X-Sender: will@gw.wired.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 10:26:32 -0800 To: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen), the-little-garden@cygnus.com From: Will Kreth Subject: Re: Supra power cube needed At 8:43 AM 1/18/94 -0800, Robert D. Nielsen wrote: >Greetings Fellow Gardeners, > >My power cube for my Supra (boo, hiss) died and I am without a net connection >until I get >it replaced. I ordered three AT&T DataPorts, but they will not be in for a >week or two. > >Does anyone have a spare Supra power cube they would be willing to lend me for >two >weeks or less? > >Cheers, >Robert Robert- We lost a power supply for a Stupra modem ourselves. A generic Radio Shark AC adapter will do. ---------------------------------- Radio Hack Cat. Number 273-1611A Output: 9V ac 1.3 Amps Less than $15 Will =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Will.Kreth+++Online.Ambassador++++info@wired.com Wired.Magazine++544++2nd.St.+++SF.CA++94107++USA =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From dave@telco-nac.com Tue Jan 18 10:48:18 1994 Received: from mickey.telco-nac.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA01954; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 10:48:13 -0800 Received: from telco-nac.com (homer [192.9.200.100]) by mickey.telco-nac.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) with SMTP id KAA26295 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 10:51:00 -0800 Received: from hobbes.telco-nac.com ([192.9.200.101]) by telco-nac.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29143; Tue, 18 Jan 94 10:50:49 PST From: dave@telco-nac.com (David Cornejo) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by hobbes.telco-nac.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) id KAA29451 for admin@tlg.org; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 10:47:17 -0800 Message-Id: <199401181847.KAA29451@hobbes.telco-nac.com> Subject: modem replacement & PPP To: admin@tlg.org Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 10:47:16 -0800 (PST) Organization: Telco Systems Network Access Corporation X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1058 Status: O Howdy, Is there any charge for replacing a modem? Since this is an upgrade, there would be no real rush on getting the work done. Also I would like to try PPP out - I can get into the Palo Alto PortMaster and handle the job myself, if someone could give me brief directions on how to do it. Depending upon whether I can get my software to work, I might need it reconfigured back to SLIP, which is why I'd like to try it myself rather than bug you with my experiments. BTW, while I won't be able to make the meeting Wednesday, I would like to contribute to the usage monitoring work that seemed to be wanted. I have some ideas on the SNMP variables that we need to look at for monitoring ports plus some code for reading them out (it's really just some of the sample code from CMU cleaned up a little). dave -- Dave Cornejo It's just another day in California Telco Systems NAC where "good enough," isn't Fremont, California, USA +1 510 490 3111 x5158 also: dave@dogwood.com, dnc@netcom.com From kaj2@nms32.comp.pge.com Tue Jan 18 11:55:05 1994 Received: from can02.pge.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id LAA02020; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 11:54:57 -0800 Received: from dns01.pge.com by can02.pge.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19670; Tue, 18 Jan 94 11:58:56 PST Received: from dns02.comp.pge.com by dns01.pge.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14838; Tue, 18 Jan 94 12:09:22 PST Received: from nms32.comp.pge.com by dns02.comp.pge.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18999; Tue, 18 Jan 94 11:55:04 PST Received: by nms32.comp.pge.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00737; Tue, 18 Jan 94 11:53:30 PST Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 11:53:30 PST From: kaj2@nms32.comp.pge.com (Ken A. Jordan) Message-Id: <9401181953.AA00737@nms32.comp.pge.com> To: info@admin.tlg.rg.net Status: O I'd like information about a cheap PPP/SLIP internet connection. thanks, Ken Jordan kaj2@pge.com From KAJ2%CsdSys%CTS@bangate.pge.com Tue Jan 18 11:58:20 1994 Received: from can02.pge.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id LAA02030; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 11:58:11 -0800 Received: from dns01.pge.com by can02.pge.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19782; Tue, 18 Jan 94 12:02:07 PST Received: from LAB25.comp.pge.com by dns01.pge.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14863; Tue, 18 Jan 94 12:12:34 PST Received: by LAB25.comp.pge.com; Tue, 18 Jan 94 11:58:07 PST Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 11:58:04 PST Message-Id: From: (Kenneth A Jordan; 223-8728; Sr. Computer Systems Analyst; CSD) To: info@admin.tlg.rg.net Subject: Info on cheap PPP/SLIP connection X-Incognito-Sn: 237 X-Incognito-Format: VERSION=1.52a ENCRYPTED=NO Status: O Hello, I'd like to get info on a cheap PPP/SLIP internet connection as mentioned in Wolfgang Rupprecht's signature in a response in the ba.internet newsgroup. thanks, Ken Jordan kaj2@pge.com From tomj@fido.wps.com Tue Jan 18 13:14:32 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA02091; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 13:14:23 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA15467; Tue, 18 Jan 94 13:15:06 -0800 Received: from amdahl.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA13295; Tue, 18 Jan 94 00:34:30 -0800 Received: by amdahl.com (/\==/\ Smail #25.33) id ; Tue, 18 Jan 94 00:34 PST Received: by hip-hop.sbay.org (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0pMBqu-0003keC; Tue, 18 Jan 94 00:31 PST Message-Id: From: dave@hip-hop.sbay.org (David L. Black) Subject: TLG completed form To: tomj@wps.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 0:31:55 PST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O Your Little Garden POP will be: Cygnus Support, 1937 Landings Dr, Mtn. View CA 94043 Type of circuit you are installing: voice-grade You've been assigned 8-bit subnet: 140.174.113 For routing purposes, the address of the Little Garden router/gateway ("next hop") is: 140.174.4.3 *You* tell *us* what the first address is on your end (eg. your SLIP or PPP port that's the gateway to your network): 140.174.113.1 PUBLIC INFORMATION: Company/site name (optional): Person/contact name: David L. Black Voice phone to contact for problems: 408-738-4467 Domain name you'll register: asylum.org person@domain to send mail to: dave@hip-hop.asylum.org (The above address is pending domain registration. Until then, use dave@hip-hop.sbay.org.) TECHNICAL INFORMATION: Do you want SLIP or PPP? SLIP (SLIP only) Want van Jacobson compression? (y,n) [recommended] yes! UNLISTED INFORMATION: Phone/circuit number at TLG site: Note: the person taking my phone order was unable to supply this information. She said the technician would mark the appropriate pair in the wiring closet. The number is 415-903-3411, and will be active by 5pm on 1/18. Mailing address (for billing): Company/person if different: David L. Black Street, etc: 225 Sunset Avenue City, etc: Sunnyvale, CA 94086 (Other info required? Add here.) *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Note: we're still thinking about the domain name. Consider asylum.org to be tentative. I hope this does not delay installation. I wish to get payment to you ASAP, to speed installation. What's the best way? I will call Tuesday. Any other info you need, let me know - thanks. Dave -- David L. Black, KE6AJC Hip-Hop BBS dave@hip-hop.sbay.org Sunnyvale, California From daemon Tue Jan 18 15:15:59 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA00082; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 15:15:58 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 15:15:58 -0800 From: root (Root of all evil) Message-Id: <199401182315.PAA00082@tlg.org> To: admin Subject: tlg.org rebooted on Tue Jan 18 15:40:41 PST 1994 Status: O From daemon Tue Jan 18 18:08:16 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA00081; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 18:08:14 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 18:08:14 -0800 From: root (Root of all evil) Message-Id: <199401190208.SAA00081@tlg.org> To: admin Subject: tlg.org rebooted on Tue Jan 18 18:32:55 PST 1994 Status: O From admin@tlg.org Tue Jan 18 20:40:32 1994 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA00335; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 20:40:10 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvzly27716; Tue, 18 Jan 94 23:40:03 -0500 Received: from openlink.openlink.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03931; Tue, 18 Jan 94 20:38:28 PST Received: by openlink.openlink.com with UUCP id AA29774 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for the-little-garden@cygnus.com); Tue, 18 Jan 1994 20:39:25 -0800 Received: by everest.com (NX5.67c/NeXT-1.0+/Anterior) id AA08416; Tue, 18 Jan 94 20:35:58 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 20:35:58 -0800 From: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen) Message-Id: <9401190435.AA08416@everest.com> Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.87.1) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.87.1) To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Anyone want to commute to the meeting? Status: O Anyone want to commute to the meeting? I live in Palo Alto, but I am working for a client in North San Jose. I will gladly drive and I would like a co-pilot. Anyone interested? Cheers, Robert D. Nielsen (415) 326 2130 Home (408) 428 9596 Client office From admin@tlg.org Tue Jan 18 23:48:35 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id XAA00540; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 23:48:24 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401190748.XAA00540@tlg.org> Subject: REMINDER: Meting tonight! To: garden-list Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 23:48:23 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3200 Status: O Meting out what?! Reprint or whatever you want to call it. NOTE: this is mere blocks from the USENIX conference. It's possible to attend both this meeting and most USENIX BOFs. BE PROMPT!!! The building is hard to get into. If you're excessively late you won't get in. We'll dro into the lobby to check for stragglers but please try to be there! Please be there by 7:30pm. We'll meet you in the lobby. It's a terrible place to have a meeting, likely we won't do it here again, so if you wanna see the POP at 444 this is a reasonably rare chance. GENERAL MEETING THE LITTLE GARDEN at the brand shiny new 444 Market St. POP 444 Market St, Suite 3075 San Francisco Wed, 19 Jan 94 7:30pm This will be a pizza-based meeting. I have absolutely no details on the pizza part just yet. We will meet in the space adjacent to the POP itself, in what is basically MTC (Marin Telecomm) offices. There is actually a long table and some seating, though I'm not sure if it's enough. Cross street is Fremont, on the south of Market St. side. Parking is actually possible, though hardly great, at 730. ABOUT THE MEETING PLACE: This building is somewhat restrictive about letting people in after 6pm. I have to submit a list of attendees, and you'll have to sign in at the door. Sorry! If your name is NOT on the TLG member contact PLEASE! send me your name! Otherwise you won't get let in the building! The guy at the desk doesn't seem to like me very much, though I've never been anything but friendly and cooperative (the non-suit tech for one of our neighbors get shit from him too). Welcome to downtown. So the hint is -- fashionably late is OUT. Please get there at by 730! We'll make a sweep for stragglers, but if you're late you won't get upstairs! Not our policy, believe me... AGENDA: Oh that. Here's my utterly unexpanded agenda. I am not suggesting we discuss all these items, nor htat they are the only important ones, even to me. It's just my list. Probably we should work on one in the next week, or at least find the items we "all" want to hear about... It's been a long time since we had a meeting, months, and we probably have to talk about what we need to talk about, plus just hang out and talk. Maybe it's time to talk about splitting up into sub-commitees for various tasks? Should we plan on an informal talk/direction meeting, or a goal-based one? I suggest a compromise: let's hit on the highlights, say overview of finances, when we break even, etc; the issue of members hardware at 444; NNTP servers. Add your favorite items here. My lousy list: NNTP servers for Toad, PA, Cygnus, etc we need disks! and memories! I get at least 2-4 requests per week we can scrounge processors, cases, etc Space on the ether at 444 why it is not so simple why the oppressive price quoted ($800!) ONGOING Where we are financially cash bills projections Expansion of tlg.org functions lists, name server, etc San Jose POP start trouble system MY JOB I want more money, less hours Organization for TLG -- Tom Jennings -- tomj@wps.com -- World Power Systems -- San Francisco, Calif. From admin@tlg.org Wed Jan 19 06:53:59 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id GAA00857; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 06:53:52 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvznn18574; Wed, 19 Jan 94 09:54:14 -0500 Received: from openlink.openlink.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09870; Wed, 19 Jan 94 06:54:05 PST Received: by openlink.openlink.com with UUCP id AA16501 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for the-little-garden@cygnus.com); Wed, 19 Jan 1994 06:55:03 -0800 Received: by everest.com (NX5.67c/NeXT-1.0+/Anterior) id AA09000; Wed, 19 Jan 94 06:52:36 -0800 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 06:52:36 -0800 From: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen) Message-Id: <9401191452.AA09000@everest.com> Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.87.1) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.87.1) To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Re: Anyone want to commute to the meeting? Status: O Greetings All, Greg Merrell and I are going to commute from Palo Alto to the meeting via 280. We have two more seats if anyone is interested, but if I drive, they will be *small* seats:-) See ya! Cheers, Robert From admin@tlg.org Wed Jan 19 10:24:27 1994 Received: from net.bio.net by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA01045; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 10:24:22 -0800 Received: by net.bio.net (5.65/IG-2.0) with SMTP id AA26653; Wed, 19 Jan 94 10:24:54 -0800 Message-Id: <9401191824.AA26653@net.bio.net> To: tomj@fnord.tlg.org (Tom Jennings) Cc: garden-list@fnord.tlg.org Subject: Re: REMINDER: Meting tonight! In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 18 Jan 94 23:48:23 PST." <199401190748.XAA00540@tlg.org> Reply-To: shibumi@net.bio.net X-Disclaimer: Unless otherwise noted below, this is not a policy statement Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 10:24:53 -0800 From: "Kenton A. Hoover" Status: O > start trouble system Not for the agenda, but I have an MH based trouble management package I can turn you on to. We were (still are, as far as I know) using it at IG. Please add: routing loop for all POPs (that is, no UNIX hosts on the routing wire, please) I will not be making the meeting tonite. From marc@celtech.com Wed Jan 19 11:33:22 1994 Received: from celtech.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id LAA01176; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 11:33:10 -0800 Received: by celtech.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0pMicy-000ABnC; Wed, 19 Jan 94 11:31 PST From: marc@ctshp.celtech.com (Tarzan) Message-Id: <9401191131.ZM12456@ctshp.celtech.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 11:31:44 -0800 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (2.1.2 11jan93) To: info@tlg.org Subject: Information Request Status: O Information request. -- Send _lots_ of small, | "Beware my friend as you pass by, unmarked bills to: | as you are now so once was I, | As I am now so you must be, marc@ctshp.celtech.com | prepare my friend to follow me." - D. Mustaine From admin@tlg.org Wed Jan 19 11:42:24 1994 Received: from fenchurch.MIT.EDU by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id LAA01202; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 11:42:20 -0800 Received: from localhost by fenchurch.MIT.EDU id OAA08887; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 14:42:22 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 14:42:19 EST From: "M. Strata Rose" Reply-To: strata@hybrid.com To: garden-list@fnord.tlg.org Cc: strata@fenchurch.MIT.EDU, kristin@wired.com Subject: No-Name sushi run before meeting Message-ID: Status: OR I realize that there will be pizza at the meeting, but I'm still interested in doing a local dinner run beforehand. Anyone else interested-- allergic to wheat (like me), want to socialize w/other TLG folks, or just don't like pizza? :-) I will be at the infamous "No-Name Sushi" at 5:45, come join me. If you'd like to come but aren't sure where it is, send me mail before 2:30 today (when I'll be leaving work) and I'll send directions. Wonderful sushi, very fresh and quite inexpensive-- lots of vegetarian sushi as well. It's about a 10minute or less bus ride down Market from the meeting place, so we should have plenty of time. _Strata M. Strata Rose Unix & Network Consultant, SysAdmin & Internet Information Virtual City Network (tm) strata@virtual.net | strata@hybrid.com | strata@fenchurch.mit.edu From tomj@fido.wps.com Wed Jan 19 12:09:50 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA01265; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 12:09:47 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA03530; Wed, 19 Jan 94 12:10:21 -0800 Received: from netcom3.netcom.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA00795; Tue, 18 Jan 94 20:54:41 -0800 Received: from localhost by mail.netcom.com (8.6.4/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id UAA04117; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 20:55:19 -0800 Message-Id: <199401190455.UAA04117@mail.netcom.com> To: tomj@wps.com Cc: alm@netcom.com Subject: Re: TLG - How do I get connected? Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 20:55:18 -0800 From: Andrew Moore Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O Hi, I am back in town and anxious to get connected. The Mountain View number - 903-1400 - is evidently local to me. I guess I must arrange a phone connection at this site. Is it enough if I call Pac Bell and request a new number at 1937 Landings Dr and billed to me? Below, I give talke.org as my intended domain name. Or does `tlg' have to be part of it for a voice-grade connection? (I apologize if this is answered in the pub/* files on ftp.tlg - I will read these now...) Thanks. -Andrew Moore ---------- Please don't remove anything below this line ---------- Your Little Garden POP will be: Cygnus Support, 1937 Landings Dr, Mtn. View CA 94043 Type of circuit you are installing: *** voice-grade You've been assigned 8-bit subnet: 140.174.112.xx For routing purposes, the address of the Little Garden router/gateway ("next hop") is: 140.174.23.13 *You* tell *us* what the first address is on your end (eg. your SLIP or PPP port that's the gateway to your network): *** 140.174.112.2 PUBLIC INFORMATION: Company/site name (optional): *** Talke Studio Person/contact name: *** Andrew Moore Voice phone to contact for problems: *** 415 365-9375 Domain name you'll register: *** talke.org person@domain to send mail to: *** alm@talke.org TECHNICAL INFORMATION: Do you want SLIP or PPP? *** SLIP (until I can set up PPP) (SLIP only) Want van Jacobson compression? (y,n) [recommended] *** y UNLISTED INFORMATION: Phone/circuit number at TLG site: *** ?? Mailing address (for billing): Company/person if different: *** Andrew Moore Street, etc: *** 485 Redwood Ave, #5 City, etc: *** Redwood City, CA 94061 (Other info required? Add here.) *** From admin@tlg.org Wed Jan 19 14:37:26 1994 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA01575; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 14:37:20 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvzos15564; Wed, 19 Jan 94 17:37:44 -0500 Received: from colossus.apple.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14217; Wed, 19 Jan 94 10:30:08 PST Received: from cfcl.com by colossus.apple.com with SMTP (5.65/8-Oct-1993-eef) id AA11164; Wed, 19 Jan 94 10:28:58 -0800 Received: by cfcl.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07215; Wed, 19 Jan 94 10:29:06 PST Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 10:29:06 PST From: rdm@cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Message-Id: <9401191829.AA07215@cfcl.com> To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: ride? Status: O I would like to cadge a ride from the meeting to San Bruno. Help? -r From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Jan 21 09:13:13 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id JAA03851; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 09:13:12 -0800 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 09:13:12 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401211713.JAA03851@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id IAA01848; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 08:47:08 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvzkd18207; Tue, 18 Jan 94 11:46:32 -0500 Received: from openlink.openlink.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12523; Tue, 18 Jan 94 08:45:59 PST Received: by openlink.openlink.com with UUCP id AA00943 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for the-little-garden@cygnus.com); Tue, 18 Jan 1994 08:47:00 -0800 Received: by everest.com (NX5.67c/NeXT-1.0+/Anterior) id AA07867; Tue, 18 Jan 94 08:43:32 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 08:43:32 -0800 From: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen) Message-Id: <9401181643.AA07867@everest.com> Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.87.1) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.87.1) To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Supra power cube needed Greetings Fellow Gardeners, My power cube for my Supra (boo, hiss) died and I am without a net connection until I get it replaced. I ordered three AT&T DataPorts, but they will not be in for a week or two. Does anyone have a spare Supra power cube they would be willing to lend me for two weeks or less? Cheers, Robert From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Jan 21 10:43:45 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA03942; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 10:43:44 -0800 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 10:43:44 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401211843.KAA03942@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA01925; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 10:24:17 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvzkj19762; Tue, 18 Jan 94 13:24:33 -0500 Received: from gw.wired.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14883; Tue, 18 Jan 94 10:23:50 PST Received: from [140.174.72.133] by gw.wired.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA07745; Tue, 18 Jan 94 10:22:57 -0800 Message-Id: <9401181822.AA07745@wired.com> X-Sender: will@gw.wired.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 10:26:32 -0800 To: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen), the-little-garden@cygnus.com From: Will Kreth Subject: Re: Supra power cube needed At 8:43 AM 1/18/94 -0800, Robert D. Nielsen wrote: >Greetings Fellow Gardeners, > >My power cube for my Supra (boo, hiss) died and I am without a net connection >until I get >it replaced. I ordered three AT&T DataPorts, but they will not be in for a >week or two. > >Does anyone have a spare Supra power cube they would be willing to lend me for >two >weeks or less? > >Cheers, >Robert Robert- We lost a power supply for a Stupra modem ourselves. A generic Radio Shark AC adapter will do. ---------------------------------- Radio Hack Cat. Number 273-1611A Output: 9V ac 1.3 Amps Less than $15 Will =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Will.Kreth+++Online.Ambassador++++info@wired.com Wired.Magazine++544++2nd.St.+++SF.CA++94107++USA =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From strata@fenchurch.MIT.EDU Fri Jan 21 12:40:53 1994 Received: from fenchurch.MIT.EDU by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA04013; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 12:40:51 -0800 Received: from localhost by fenchurch.MIT.EDU id PAA17011; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 15:41:43 -0500 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 15:41:41 EST From: "M. Strata Rose" Reply-To: strata@fenchurch.MIT.EDU To: admin@tlg.org Subject: Re: TLG Jan 94 Member contact list In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 7 Jan 1994 17:39:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Status: O Sure, feel free to send folks my way. _Strata M. Strata Rose Unix & Network Consultant, SysAdmin & Internet Information Virtual City Network (tm) strata@virtual.net | strata@hybrid.com | strata@fenchurch.mit.edu From gnu@toad.com Fri Jan 21 13:37:04 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA04067; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 13:34:25 -0800 From: gnu@toad.com Received: from toad.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA06903; Fri, 21 Jan 94 13:36:01 -0800 Received: from localhost by toad.com id AA19750; Fri, 21 Jan 94 13:35:58 PST Message-Id: <9401212135.AA19750@toad.com> To: info@tlg.org Subject: FYI: Conference on Community Networking Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 13:35:57 -0800 Status: O I haven't looked to see if it's worthwhile. ------- Forwarded Message From: "Vinton G. Cerf" To: ISOC Announcement List:;@isoc.org, LOCAL@excelsior Subject: Conference on Community Networking Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 11:39:20 -0500 X-Orig-Sender: jstewart@CNRI.Reston.VA.US Attention Internauts: The Internet Society is co-sponsoring the First International Conference on Community Networking. Details may be found in the Internet Society Gopher Server: gopher.isoc.org in the section on Internet Society Conferences. Vint Cerf ------- End of Forwarded Message From clp@pyramid.com Fri Jan 21 14:01:28 1994 Received: from gossip.pyramid.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA04085; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 14:01:26 -0800 Received: from sword.eng.pyramid.com by gossip.pyramid.com (5.61/OSx5.1a Pyramid-Internet-Gateway) id AA05249; Fri, 21 Jan 94 14:03:23 -0800 Received: by sword.eng.pyramid.com (5.61/Pyramid_Internal_Configuration) id AA10005; Fri, 21 Jan 94 14:03:22 -0800 From: clp@pyramid.com (Chuck Peterson) Message-Id: <9401211403.ZM10003@sword.eng.pyramid.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 14:03:21 -0800 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (2.1.4 29apr93) To: admin@tlg.org Subject: renting space on your net Status: O Would you or any of your T-1 POPs be interested in renting space on their net? I have a machine with a cpu-intensive Internet server on it and would like to have a high-speed connection from it to the Internet. What I have in mind is putting my small pc-clone in the corner of one of your offices with a ethernet cable going to it. Nearly all of my administration of it would be done remotely. Thanks. Chuck L. Peterson clp@pyramid.com From admin@tlg.org Fri Jan 21 14:48:42 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA04121; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 14:48:16 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvzwd01674; Fri, 21 Jan 94 17:49:49 -0500 Received: from snowbird.pdh.com (pdh.com) by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07796; Fri, 21 Jan 94 14:49:39 PST Received: from augusta.pdh.com by snowbird.pdh.com (NeXT-1.0 (From Sendmail 5.52)/NeXT-2.0) id AA15032; Fri, 21 Jan 94 14:47:24 PST From: rnielsen@pdh.com (Robert Nielsen) Message-Id: <9401212247.AA15032@snowbird.pdh.com> Received: by augusta.pdh.com (NX5.67d/NX3.0X) id AA04031; Fri, 21 Jan 94 14:48:00 -0800 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 14:48:00 -0800 Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.100) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.100) To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: new hard disks for sale. Reply-To: rnielsen@pdh.com, rnielsen@everest.com Status: O Ignore the from address, I am at a clients site. Begin forwarded message: From: Aaron Morse Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 12:22:32 -0800 To: pi_humor@next.com, buddy@next.com Subject: new hard disks for sale. If anybody is interested in a new 1.2gb SCSI II disk, I have eight for sale for $675 each. Tell your friends. :-) Aaron 415-780-3785 From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Jan 21 15:05:52 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA04122; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 14:48:17 -0800 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 14:48:17 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199401212248.PAA04122@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-cygnus-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 tlg-admin@Sunnyside.COM (Sunnyside)... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA04121; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 14:48:16 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvzwd01674; Fri, 21 Jan 94 17:49:49 -0500 Received: from snowbird.pdh.com (pdh.com) by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07796; Fri, 21 Jan 94 14:49:39 PST Received: from augusta.pdh.com by snowbird.pdh.com (NeXT-1.0 (From Sendmail 5.52)/NeXT-2.0) id AA15032; Fri, 21 Jan 94 14:47:24 PST From: rnielsen@pdh.com (Robert Nielsen) Message-Id: <9401212247.AA15032@snowbird.pdh.com> Received: by augusta.pdh.com (NX5.67d/NX3.0X) id AA04031; Fri, 21 Jan 94 14:48:00 -0800 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 14:48:00 -0800 Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.100) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.100) To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: new hard disks for sale. Reply-To: rnielsen@pdh.com, rnielsen@everest.com Ignore the from address, I am at a clients site. Begin forwarded message: From: Aaron Morse Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 12:22:32 -0800 To: pi_humor@next.com, buddy@next.com Subject: new hard disks for sale. If anybody is interested in a new 1.2gb SCSI II disk, I have eight for sale for $675 each. Tell your friends. :-) Aaron 415-780-3785 From craig@veritas.com Fri Jan 21 15:50:40 1994 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA04186; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 15:48:02 -0800 Received: from athena.veritas.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvzwh24529; Fri, 21 Jan 94 18:49:40 -0500 Received: from mobius.veritas.com by athena.veritas.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.0 #2) id m0pNVbJ-0008zhC; Fri, 21 Jan 94 15:49 PST Received: by mobius.veritas.com (Smail3.1.29.0 #2) id m0pNVaK-0001yCC; Fri, 21 Jan 94 15:48 PST Message-Id: From: craig@veritas.com (Craig Harmer) Subject: send signup form To: info@tlg.org Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 15:48:15 PST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: O hi, could you send me a signup form for your V.32bis service? i think i'm ready to sign up. also, i'd appreciate the phone and/or email address for john gilmore. he lives 1 block away, and i anticpate i'll be connecting to his house (toad hall). we were discussing alternative connection strategies. craig. -- {apple,amdahl}!veritas!craig craig@veritas.com (415) 668-3564 (h) (408) 727-1222 x220 (w) [views expressed above aren't Veritas' views, nor should they be mistaken for the views of any responsible person.] From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Jan 21 20:44:36 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA04460; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 20:44:35 -0800 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 20:44:35 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401220444.UAA04460@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay2.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA00335; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 20:40:10 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvzly27716; Tue, 18 Jan 94 23:40:03 -0500 Received: from openlink.openlink.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03931; Tue, 18 Jan 94 20:38:28 PST Received: by openlink.openlink.com with UUCP id AA29774 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for the-little-garden@cygnus.com); Tue, 18 Jan 1994 20:39:25 -0800 Received: by everest.com (NX5.67c/NeXT-1.0+/Anterior) id AA08416; Tue, 18 Jan 94 20:35:58 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 20:35:58 -0800 From: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen) Message-Id: <9401190435.AA08416@everest.com> Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.87.1) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.87.1) To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Anyone want to commute to the meeting? Anyone want to commute to the meeting? I live in Palo Alto, but I am working for a client in North San Jose. I will gladly drive and I would like a co-pilot. Anyone interested? Cheers, Robert D. Nielsen (415) 326 2130 Home (408) 428 9596 Client office From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 22 00:15:04 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id AAA04588; Sat, 22 Jan 1994 00:15:03 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 00:15:03 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401220815.AAA04588@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id XAA00540; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 23:48:24 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401190748.XAA00540@tlg.org> Subject: REMINDER: Meting tonight! To: garden-list Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 23:48:23 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3200 Meting out what?! Reprint or whatever you want to call it. NOTE: this is mere blocks from the USENIX conference. It's possible to attend both this meeting and most USENIX BOFs. BE PROMPT!!! The building is hard to get into. If you're excessively late you won't get in. We'll dro into the lobby to check for stragglers but please try to be there! Please be there by 7:30pm. We'll meet you in the lobby. It's a terrible place to have a meeting, likely we won't do it here again, so if you wanna see the POP at 444 this is a reasonably rare chance. GENERAL MEETING THE LITTLE GARDEN at the brand shiny new 444 Market St. POP 444 Market St, Suite 3075 San Francisco Wed, 19 Jan 94 7:30pm This will be a pizza-based meeting. I have absolutely no details on the pizza part just yet. We will meet in the space adjacent to the POP itself, in what is basically MTC (Marin Telecomm) offices. There is actually a long table and some seating, though I'm not sure if it's enough. Cross street is Fremont, on the south of Market St. side. Parking is actually possible, though hardly great, at 730. ABOUT THE MEETING PLACE: This building is somewhat restrictive about letting people in after 6pm. I have to submit a list of attendees, and you'll have to sign in at the door. Sorry! If your name is NOT on the TLG member contact PLEASE! send me your name! Otherwise you won't get let in the building! The guy at the desk doesn't seem to like me very much, though I've never been anything but friendly and cooperative (the non-suit tech for one of our neighbors get shit from him too). Welcome to downtown. So the hint is -- fashionably late is OUT. Please get there at by 730! We'll make a sweep for stragglers, but if you're late you won't get upstairs! Not our policy, believe me... AGENDA: Oh that. Here's my utterly unexpanded agenda. I am not suggesting we discuss all these items, nor htat they are the only important ones, even to me. It's just my list. Probably we should work on one in the next week, or at least find the items we "all" want to hear about... It's been a long time since we had a meeting, months, and we probably have to talk about what we need to talk about, plus just hang out and talk. Maybe it's time to talk about splitting up into sub-commitees for various tasks? Should we plan on an informal talk/direction meeting, or a goal-based one? I suggest a compromise: let's hit on the highlights, say overview of finances, when we break even, etc; the issue of members hardware at 444; NNTP servers. Add your favorite items here. My lousy list: NNTP servers for Toad, PA, Cygnus, etc we need disks! and memories! I get at least 2-4 requests per week we can scrounge processors, cases, etc Space on the ether at 444 why it is not so simple why the oppressive price quoted ($800!) ONGOING Where we are financially cash bills projections Expansion of tlg.org functions lists, name server, etc San Jose POP start trouble system MY JOB I want more money, less hours Organization for TLG -- Tom Jennings -- tomj@wps.com -- World Power Systems -- San Francisco, Calif. From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 22 07:14:03 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id HAA04841; Sat, 22 Jan 1994 07:14:02 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 07:14:02 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401221514.HAA04841@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id GAA00857; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 06:53:52 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvznn18574; Wed, 19 Jan 94 09:54:14 -0500 Received: from openlink.openlink.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09870; Wed, 19 Jan 94 06:54:05 PST Received: by openlink.openlink.com with UUCP id AA16501 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for the-little-garden@cygnus.com); Wed, 19 Jan 1994 06:55:03 -0800 Received: by everest.com (NX5.67c/NeXT-1.0+/Anterior) id AA09000; Wed, 19 Jan 94 06:52:36 -0800 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 06:52:36 -0800 From: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen) Message-Id: <9401191452.AA09000@everest.com> Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.87.1) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.87.1) To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Re: Anyone want to commute to the meeting? Greetings All, Greg Merrell and I are going to commute from Palo Alto to the meeting via 280. We have two more seats if anyone is interested, but if I drive, they will be *small* seats:-) See ya! Cheers, Robert From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 22 10:35:27 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA04989; Sat, 22 Jan 1994 10:35:26 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 10:35:26 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401221835.KAA04989@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from net.bio.net by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA01045; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 10:24:22 -0800 Received: by net.bio.net (5.65/IG-2.0) with SMTP id AA26653; Wed, 19 Jan 94 10:24:54 -0800 Message-Id: <9401191824.AA26653@net.bio.net> To: tomj@fnord.tlg.org (Tom Jennings) Cc: garden-list@fnord.tlg.org Subject: Re: REMINDER: Meting tonight! In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 18 Jan 94 23:48:23 PST." <199401190748.XAA00540@tlg.org> Reply-To: shibumi@net.bio.net X-Disclaimer: Unless otherwise noted below, this is not a policy statement Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 10:24:53 -0800 From: "Kenton A. Hoover" > start trouble system Not for the agenda, but I have an MH based trouble management package I can turn you on to. We were (still are, as far as I know) using it at IG. Please add: routing loop for all POPs (that is, no UNIX hosts on the routing wire, please) I will not be making the meeting tonite. From yevaud@netcom.com Sat Jan 22 11:48:29 1994 Received: from mail.netcom.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id LAA05036; Sat, 22 Jan 1994 11:48:19 -0800 Received: from localhost by mail.netcom.com (8.6.4/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id LAA05922; Sat, 22 Jan 1994 11:51:04 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 11:51:04 -0800 From: yevaud@netcom.com (Karl Wiebe) Message-Id: <199401221951.LAA05922@mail.netcom.com> To: info@admin.tlg.rg.net Subject: Want info Status: O send brochure ( I'm sure the message body is irrelevant... ) From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 22 12:05:28 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA05060; Sat, 22 Jan 1994 12:05:27 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 12:05:27 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401222005.MAA05060@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from fenchurch.MIT.EDU by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id LAA01202; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 11:42:20 -0800 Received: from localhost by fenchurch.MIT.EDU id OAA08887; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 14:42:22 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 14:42:19 EST From: "M. Strata Rose" Reply-To: strata@hybrid.com To: garden-list@fnord.tlg.org Cc: strata@fenchurch.MIT.EDU, kristin@wired.com Subject: No-Name sushi run before meeting Message-ID: I realize that there will be pizza at the meeting, but I'm still interested in doing a local dinner run beforehand. Anyone else interested-- allergic to wheat (like me), want to socialize w/other TLG folks, or just don't like pizza? :-) I will be at the infamous "No-Name Sushi" at 5:45, come join me. If you'd like to come but aren't sure where it is, send me mail before 2:30 today (when I'll be leaving work) and I'll send directions. Wonderful sushi, very fresh and quite inexpensive-- lots of vegetarian sushi as well. It's about a 10minute or less bus ride down Market from the meeting place, so we should have plenty of time. _Strata M. Strata Rose Unix & Network Consultant, SysAdmin & Internet Information Virtual City Network (tm) strata@virtual.net | strata@hybrid.com | strata@fenchurch.mit.edu From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 22 12:35:29 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA05087; Sat, 22 Jan 1994 12:35:28 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 12:35:28 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401222035.MAA05087@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from well.sf.ca.us by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA01298; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 12:17:11 -0800 Received: from localhost (verve@localhost) by well.sf.ca.us (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA03517 for garden-list@fnord.tlg.org; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 12:17:45 -0800 From: "Eric S. Theise" Message-Id: <199401192017.MAA03517@well.sf.ca.us> Subject: Bicycling to the meeting? To: garden-list@fnord.tlg.org Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 12:17:44 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 737 Tom Jennings writes: > BE PROMPT!!! The building is hard to get into. If you're excessively > late you won't get in. We'll dro into the lobby to check for > stragglers but please try to be there! Please be there by 7:30pm. > We'll meet you in the lobby. I'm not sure if I can come tonight, since I've already got two other essential things to do, but I am wondering if the bicycle-ly inclined can bring their vehicles into the building, either in the lobby or up to the office? Thanks, and hope to see you later ... -- Eric S. Theise P.O. Box 460177, San Francisco, CA 94146.0177 Internet Domain Editor, Millennium Whole Earth Catalog The WELL: internet, matrix, & news conference host + gophermeister From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 22 12:35:31 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAB05087; Sat, 22 Jan 1994 12:35:29 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 12:35:29 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401222035.MAB05087@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from kumr.lns.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA01260; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 12:08:25 -0800 Received: by kumr.lns.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.3) id ; Wed, 19 Jan 94 12:08 PST Message-Id: From: pozar@kumr.lns.com (Tim Pozar) Subject: Re: No-Name sushi run before meeting To: strata@hybrid.com Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 12:08:21 -0800 (PST) Cc: garden-list@fnord.tlg.org, strata@fenchurch.MIT.EDU, kristin@wired.com In-Reply-To: from "M. Strata Rose" at Jan 19, 94 02:42:19 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 564 M. Strata Rose wrote: > I realize that there will be pizza at the meeting, but I'm still interested > in doing a local dinner run beforehand. Anyone else interested-- allergic to > wheat (like me), want to socialize w/other TLG folks, or just don't like > pizza? :-) BTW... What is suggested is that we decide at the meeting if we have pizza or go someplace for food. Tim -- Internet: pozar@kumr.lns.com Snail: Tim Pozar / KKSF / 77 Maiden Lane / San Francisco CA 94108 / USA POTS: +1 415 788 2022 Radio: KC6GNJ / KAE6247 From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 22 13:35:28 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA05173; Sat, 22 Jan 1994 13:35:27 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 13:35:27 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401222135.NAA05173@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA01448; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 13:26:26 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401192126.NAA01448@tlg.org> Subject: Critical meeting details! To: garden-list Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 13:26:25 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1692 PLEASE READ -- EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT SHOWING UP! I didn't make it clear -- the list of attendees was submitted to the stupid building people MONDAY -- I can't add anyone now... ALL IS NOT LOST if you're not on the list. There are many people on the list but not going. I'll simply give you someone elses name to scribble. The submitted list is below -- if you are NOT going, please email me so I can re-use your name... If you WANT to go but your name is NOT on the list, please email me. It's entirely possible after making us jump through these hoops, the mammal at the desk will be lax. I recognize this process is NONSENSE, and the only reason to have a meeting at this place is so you can see the POP, really. Sorry for the hassle. I've been making phone calls and sending faxes now since Thursday last week. * John Harkin Tim Pozar Bill Woodcock Pete Killcommons David Muir Sharnoff Eric Theise Lee Jensen Tom Jennings John Gilmore * Kenton A. Hoover Kira Siegel Rich Morin Ed Elhauge Richard Couture Andrew Waegel Roger Klorese Arthur Abraham Dan Farmer Tom Wadlow Fen Labalme * Tim Wicinski Jonathan Steuer Robert Cohen Hugh Daniel Rich Pixley Jim Wilson Sean Fagan Bill Cox Michael Park Mike Durkin Paul Goldstone Wolfgang Rupprecht Mark Seiden M. Strata Rose David S.H. Rosenthal Eric Murray David Cornejo Lonhyn T. Jasinskyj David S.H. Rosenthal William S. Kaster Stu Grossman Jean Marie Diaz Brian Smith Greg Merrell Bob Arasmith Al Whaley Qarin Von Brink Matthew Kaufman Robert Nielsen Tom Lipkis Randy Mills John Labovitz Ted Matsumura Kent Talarico Claire Griffin Richard Threadgill -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 22 14:05:27 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA05194; Sat, 22 Jan 1994 14:04:11 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 14:04:11 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401222204.OAA05194@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-toad-list (hard error -- address deleted) :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA01490; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 13:44:06 -0800 From: rogerk@queernet.org Received: from unpc.queernet.org by inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com (5.65/13Jan94) id AA01331; Wed, 19 Jan 94 13:36:23 -0800 Received: by unpc.queernet.org (Smail3.1.28.1 #10) id m0pMkau-000MWDC; Wed, 19 Jan 94 13:37 PST Message-Id: To: tomj@fnord.tlg.org (Tom Jennings) Cc: garden-list@fnord.tlg.org Subject: Re: Critical meeting details! In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 19 Jan 94 13:26:25 -0800. <199401192126.NAA01448@tlg.org> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 13:37:43 PST See you at Checkpoint Charlie... --- ROGER B.A. KLORESE rogerk@QueerNet.ORG 2215-R Market Street #576 San Francisco, CA 94114 +1 415 ALL-ARFF "There is only one real blasphemy: the refusal of joy." -- Paul Rudnick From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 22 15:04:13 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA05232; Sat, 22 Jan 1994 15:04:11 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 15:04:11 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401222304.PAA05232@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay2.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA01575; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 14:37:20 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvzos15564; Wed, 19 Jan 94 17:37:44 -0500 Received: from colossus.apple.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14217; Wed, 19 Jan 94 10:30:08 PST Received: from cfcl.com by colossus.apple.com with SMTP (5.65/8-Oct-1993-eef) id AA11164; Wed, 19 Jan 94 10:28:58 -0800 Received: by cfcl.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07215; Wed, 19 Jan 94 10:29:06 PST Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 10:29:06 PST From: rdm@cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Message-Id: <9401191829.AA07215@cfcl.com> To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: ride? I would like to cadge a ride from the meeting to San Bruno. Help? -r From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 22 15:04:14 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAB05232; Sat, 22 Jan 1994 15:04:12 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 15:04:12 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401222304.PAB05232@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from hp.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA01621; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 15:03:58 -0800 Received: from hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com by hp.com with SMTP (1.36.108.7/15.5+IOS 3.13) id AA06927; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 15:04:38 -0800 Received: by hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com (1.37.187.4/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA15984; Wed, 19 Jan 94 15:00:34 -0800 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 15:00:34 -0800 From: "William S. Kaster" Message-Id: <9401192300.AA15984@hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com> To: garden-list@fnord.tlg.org Subject: Agenda item Is the ``Why do I see 25% packet loss late at night?'' question on the agenda? Regards, -Bill -- From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 22 15:34:11 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA05259; Sat, 22 Jan 1994 15:34:10 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 15:34:10 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401222334.PAA05259@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from kumr.lns.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA01643; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 15:23:19 -0800 Received: by kumr.lns.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.3) id ; Wed, 19 Jan 94 15:22 PST Message-Id: From: pozar@kumr.lns.com (Tim Pozar) Subject: Re: Agenda item To: wsk@hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com (William S. Kaster) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 15:22:32 -0800 (PST) Cc: garden-list@fnord.tlg.org In-Reply-To: <9401192300.AA15984@hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com> from "William S. Kaster" at Jan 19, 94 03:00:34 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 467 William S. Kaster wrote: > Is the ``Why do I see 25% packet loss late at night?'' question > on the agenda? That sounds more of a technical issue than an orginization one. But it doesn't mean we can't tackle it. If you can get some paticulars on this before the meeting. Tim -- Internet: pozar@kumr.lns.com Snail: Tim Pozar / KKSF / 77 Maiden Lane / San Francisco CA 94108 / USA POTS: +1 415 788 2022 Radio: KC6GNJ / KAE6247 From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 22 15:34:13 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAB05259; Sat, 22 Jan 1994 15:34:10 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 15:34:10 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401222334.PAB05259@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from kumr.lns.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA01628; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 15:16:56 -0800 Received: by kumr.lns.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.3) id ; Wed, 19 Jan 94 15:17 PST Message-Id: From: pozar@kumr.lns.com (Tim Pozar) Subject: Re: Bicycling to the meeting? To: verve@well.sf.ca.us (Eric S. Theise) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 15:17:35 -0800 (PST) Cc: garden-list@fnord.tlg.org In-Reply-To: <199401192017.MAA03517@well.sf.ca.us> from "Eric S. Theise" at Jan 19, 94 12:17:44 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 639 Eric S. Theise wrote: > I'm not sure if I can come tonight, since I've already got two other > essential things to do, but I am wondering if the bicycle-ly inclined > can bring their vehicles into the building, either in the lobby or up > to the office? > > Thanks, and hope to see you later ... Good question. If you really need to do it I would just go ahead and bike down. I'm sure we can get passed the guards on this one way or another. Tim -- Internet: pozar@kumr.lns.com Snail: Tim Pozar / KKSF / 77 Maiden Lane / San Francisco CA 94108 / USA POTS: +1 415 788 2022 Radio: KC6GNJ / KAE6247 From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 22 17:04:09 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id RAA05311; Sat, 22 Jan 1994 17:04:08 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 17:04:08 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401230104.RAA05311@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from hp.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id QAA01756; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 16:40:53 -0800 Received: from hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com by hp.com with SMTP (1.36.108.7/15.5+IOS 3.13) id AA11114; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 16:41:34 -0800 Received: by hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com (1.37.187.4/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA16522; Wed, 19 Jan 94 16:37:25 -0800 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 16:37:25 -0800 From: "William S. Kaster" Message-Id: <9401200037.AA16522@hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com> To: pozar@kumr.lns.com Cc: garden-list@fnord.tlg.org In-Reply-To: Tim Pozar's message of Wed, 19 Jan 1994 15:22:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: Agenda item Yeah, I guess it is a technical one. I guess I was hoping someone would raise their hand and say, ``Oh, that was me doing large ftp transfers on the backbone'', of some such. Here is what happened: On TLG served box in my home, interactive response begins pausing for 30 to 60 seconds at a time. I start a ping and see packets getting lost, ping's report indcates ~25% loss. When this is happening, I dial into my workplace (HP) and ping the same place from an HP open-subnet machine. Less than 2% packet loss, usually 0%. (Start pings at same time, kill at same time) My home machine is running Linux. I've been using the TLG link at the same intesity level for two months, and this symptom just started showing up (3 days ago). Sorry, didn't think to ping sites closer than my destination, but then again, I don't know how polite that would be. (I.e., if I had ping'd the PA router without loss, I could have eliminated my box from being a problem.) Regards, -Bill -- From kee@kagi.com Sat Jan 22 18:20:53 1994 Received: from zocalo.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA05361; Sat, 22 Jan 1994 18:20:40 -0800 Received: from kagi.kagi.com by zocalo.com (5.65/Zocalo-2.1) id AA21604; Sat, 22 Jan 94 18:29:32 PST Message-Id: <9401230229.AA21604@zocalo.com> X-Sender: kee@pop.kagi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 18:19:27 -0800 To: info@tlg.org From: kee@kagi.com (Kee Nethery +1 510 843 6140) Subject: please send 50 yellow TLG cards Status: O Please mail me a handfull of the Yello detailed TLG business cards. I want to carry them around and hand them out and I've already given away the ones I got at the meeting. Thanks, Kee _______________________________________________________ Kee Nethery +1 510 843 6140 Kagi Engineering kee@kagi.com 1442-A Walnut Street #362 AOL: kee Berkeley, CA 94709-1405 USA AppleLink: kee From xepera@netcom.com Sun Jan 23 13:55:20 1994 Received: from mail.netcom.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA06124; Sun, 23 Jan 1994 13:55:14 -0800 Received: from xepera by mail.netcom.com (8.6.4/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id NAA23938; Sun, 23 Jan 1994 13:58:32 -0800 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 13:58:32 -0800 Message-Id: <199401232158.NAA23938@mail.netcom.com> X-Sender: xepera@netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: info@tlg.org From: xepera@netcom.com (the tiedyed side of the force) Subject: info X-Mailer: Status: O info &andy xepera@netcom.com ham radio: KC1IP/6 Andy Nourse From MAILER-DAEMON@fido.wps.com Sun Jan 23 17:54:21 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id RAA06280; Sun, 23 Jan 1994 17:54:16 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA02358; Sun, 23 Jan 94 17:54:10 -0800 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 94 17:54:10 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@wps.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <9401240154.AA02358@wps.com> To: To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: from cygnus.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA03178; Thu, 20 Jan 94 17:47:48 -0800 Received: from gw.wired.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26392; Thu, 20 Jan 94 17:47:39 PST Received: from [140.174.72.133] by gw.wired.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA04572; Thu, 20 Jan 94 17:47:25 -0800 Message-Id: <9401210147.AA04572@wired.com> X-Sender: will@gw.wired.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 17:50:53 -0800 To: private-garden@cygnus.com From: Will Kreth Subject: BAIL event/ Possible Bay Area Net.Access Pow-Wow? Cc: grottoids@wired.com Folx- As promised at the end of last night's TLG meeting (sorry we missed you, Mr. Theise!), here's the info on the 3rd BAIL (Bay Area Internet Literacy) event coming up this Sunday and info on a few of the other Bay Area net.training/literacy groups. The first two were well-attended (in fact, they were SRO). The price of the BAIL event is reasonable ($5 to $8 - with no one turned away for lack of funds). But first -- FYI -- the same day as this third BAIL session, another much more expensive event will be going on at Ft. Mason. Sponsored by the Media Alliance, here's their press release: -------------------------------------------------------------------- A GUIDED TOUR THROUGH THE INTERNET At last! See for yourself what the ruckus is all about. A very user-friendly, comprehensive class makes the Internet intelligible for the layperson. You'll see how this network of networks can be navigated for any interest -- via five distinct sites: mail, mailing list, conferences, file transfer, and remote log-ins. Plus, you'll discover an array of information resources -- useful tools for mining information from in and across the Internet: archie, gopher, veronica, wais, and world-wide web. Put worlds at your fingertips! Instructor Gary Gach is an Internet scout, who publishes net news in the Whole Earth Review and Media File, as well as online newsletters, and writes documentation for computer users. Dates & times offered: Sun., Jan. 23, 10 am - 1 pm. Sat., Apr. 23, 10 am - 1 pm. Location: Media Alliance, Fort Mason, Bldg D, Room 290. Cost: $50 Nonmembers/$45 Media Alliance Standard Members/$40 MA Standard Members with MACS (MA Computer Services)/$35 MACMAG (nonprofit) members. For more information, or to register: 415 / 771-7133. Personal instruction is also available by appointment: 415 / 771-7793. -------------------------------------------------------------------- It appears as if a quite lucrative cottage.net-education industry could be starting up! Seriously tho, it will be interesting to see if people are really willing to pay $35 to $50 bucks to "see what all the ruckus is about." IMHO - this is far too much $ to be asking folx to cough-up during a recession. There looks to be a meeting coming up (as yet unscheduled) where representatives of some (or all) of the groups that Bernard Aboba lists below, will F2F and talk about methods and goals of offering the public classes in net literacy. The Toasternet Workshop 101 that we discussed last night should definitely become a part of BAIL's (and perhaps the other groups) offered sessions, IMHO. -Will Here's the BAIL press release: Exploring The Internet: ...a road-trip on the Information Highway. SUNDAY, JANUARY 23rd at CLIMATE THEATRE 252 9th Street (a half block block west of Folsom in San Francisco) 1 to 2:30 pm - Getting Connected Basics of purchasing and installing all the equipment you will need, and how to connect to local, free or low cost bulletin board services. 3 to 5:00 pm - Exploring The Internet What is The Internet and what can I do there? Who is using it and for what? This will be a live demonstration of all kinds of Internet tools and destinations. Admission is $5 per workshop, or $8 for both, no one turned away for lack of funds. Only the most basic familiarity with Macintosh, DOS, Windows, or other personal computer is assumed. We'll introduce you in a friendly way to techno-stuff to get you going on The Internet. Presented by Bay Area Internet Literacy - BAIL, a group of telecom adventurers dedicated to increasing citizen participation in the 'Net. For more info contact: The WELL: (415) 332-4335, or PeaceNet/EcoNet: (415) 442-0220 >From Bernard Aboba: begin forwarded message: ------------------------ >X-POP3-Rcpt: will@gw.wired.com >Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 08:06:01 -1000 >From: aboba@internaut.com (Bernard D. Aboba) >To: bail-list@well.sf.ca.us >Subject: Bay Area Access Pow-Wow? >Cc: aboba@holonet.net > >I am planning a meeting for early February for Bay Area groups >working on various aspects of community access/Internet training. >There are a *LOT* of groups doing this now, and it would be useful >for us to meet each other. It looks like I'll be able to >secure a room in Barrows Hall on the UC Berkeley campus for this. > >Right now, I'm trying to make a list of all the groups that should be >invited. Suggestions are welcome/requested. Here's who I have so far: > >1. Silicon Valley FreeNet organizing committee. I guess Grant Bowman >and Marc Siegel (msiegel@quest.arc.nasa.gov) are the contacts here. >2. Cupertino CityNet. Contact: Wally Dean, Robert Kim. >3. Oakland InfoAccess. Contact: ? >4. East Bay FreeNet Organizing Committee. Contact ? >5. San Francisco Educational Services Computer Center, 1601 Lane >St. San Francisco, CA 94124-2732. Contact: Jim Spadaccini, >SFESYC@AOL.COM. >6. Plugged In. Contact: David Lenn, plugdin@woodside.k12.ca.us >7. BAIL. > >8. Computers and You, Glide Memorial Church. Contact: ? >9. The Little Garden. Contact: tomj@wps.com, pozar@kumr.lns.com >10. BAILIS. Contact: ? >11. Hybrid Networks, Cupertino. > >12. University of California Berkeley > > a. East Bay Outreach > b. Library Automation > c. Non-profit Management Program > > > >The format of the meeting will be overhead presentations, say 15-20 >minutes each, discussing what each of the groups does, long term >goals, etc. We'll probably start at 9 AM, break for lunch, then >continue. The room I am looking at only holds around 100 (it's a >lecture hall). > > ---------------------- end forwarded message =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Will.Kreth+++Online.Ambassador++++info@wired.com Wired.Magazine++544++2nd.St.+++SF.CA++94107++USA =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From MAILER-DAEMON@fido.wps.com Sun Jan 23 19:54:17 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA06376; Sun, 23 Jan 1994 19:54:13 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA02563; Sun, 23 Jan 94 19:54:11 -0800 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 94 19:54:11 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@wps.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <9401240354.AA02563@wps.com> To: To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: from cygnus.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA03767; Thu, 20 Jan 94 19:51:02 -0800 Received: from well.sf.ca.us by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29106; Thu, 20 Jan 94 19:50:59 PST Received: from localhost (verve@localhost) by well.sf.ca.us (8.6.5/8.6.5) id TAA26107 for private-garden@cygnus.com; Thu, 20 Jan 1994 19:50:56 -0800 From: "Eric S. Theise" Message-Id: <199401210350.TAA26107@well.sf.ca.us> Subject: Re: BAIL event/ Possible Bay Area Net.Access Pow-Wow? To: private-garden@cygnus.com Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 19:50:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9401210147.AA04572@wired.com> from "Will Kreth" at Jan 20, 94 05:50:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 833 Will Kreth writes: > As promised at the end of last night's TLG meeting (sorry we missed you, > Mr. Theise!), here's the info on the 3rd BAIL (Bay Area Internet Literacy) That's *Dr.* Theise to you, Kreth ... 8-) Rumor has it that BAIL made the Datebook section of the Chronicle today, and that the phones have been ringing all day at The WELL and IGC. Anyone who wants to be on a low-traffic mailing list for announcements of BAIL events and my series at Modern Times Bookstore (John Quarterman was in-store last Sunday) can send a short note to jacked-in-request@well.sf.ca.us Sorry about the commercial ... -- Eric S. Theise P.O. Box 460177, San Francisco, CA 94146.0177 Internet Domain Editor, Millennium Whole Earth Catalog The WELL: internet, matrix, & news conference host + gophermeister From admin@tlg.org Mon Jan 24 04:59:14 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id EAA06798; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 04:59:03 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwafs14078; Mon, 24 Jan 94 08:01:56 -0500 Received: from imagine.comedia.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20979; Mon, 24 Jan 94 05:01:49 PST Received: from localhost by imagine.comedia.com (8.3/9999.1) id EAA01727; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 04:58:23 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 04:58:23 -0800 From: fen@imagine.comedia.com (Fen Labalme) Message-Id: <199401241258.EAA01727@comedia.com> To: private-garden@cygnus.com Subject: 2 Gbyte SCSI DAT for ~ $400 Status: O Received: from well.sf.ca.us by imagine.comedia.com (8.3/9999.1) id OAA04258; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 14:12:15 -0800 Received: from localhost (wsk@localhost) by well.sf.ca.us (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA11110; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 13:55:21 -0800 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 13:55:21 -0800 From: Bill Kaster Message-Id: <199401212155.NAA11110@well.sf.ca.us> To: boonlow@sfu.ca, jms@informix.com, meister@netcom.com, ruhtra@turing.toronto.edu, u8904405@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca, KHOCKENB@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU, alex@saturn.genoa.com, ayscue@vnet.net, khp@mic.dth.dk, rlee@netcom.com, andrew@werple.apana.org.au, kenny@mvuts.att.com, pl0176@psilink.com, goyal@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu, anders.frihagen@hd.uib.no, phr@netcom.com, sgoldman@encore.com, dean@cat.syr.edu, nybakken@world.std.com, wsk@mayfield.hp.com, victort@cae.wisc.edu, zstewart@nyx10.cs.du.edu, chammer@HRZ.Uni-Bielefeld.DE, eww@grebble.oau.org, axelrod@BOURBAKI.MIT.EDU, ralf@plutonix.caed.iao.fhg.de, triant@icarus.montclair.edu, esa@cyclone.atl.ga.us, graeme@hart.actrix.gen.nz, jcundiff@crl.com, duuchung@cs.utexas.edu, dgilbert@gamiga.guelphnet.dweomer.org, dlisoski@bluff.galcit.caltech.edu, jowens@kaiwan.com, david@physics.ucsc.edu, kay@nagasena.muc.de, poirier@rocket.sanders.com, pozsgay@umr.edu, bfschler@cat.syr.edu, wzhao@mcs.kent.edu, juana@physics.rutgers.edu, gehring@biotek.arc.ab.ca, hsauer@HRZ.Uni-Bielefeld.DE, ulf.sandas@compart.fi, wiegley@chaph.usc.edu, storm@mnementh.cs.mcgill.ca, ma3c+@andrew.cmu.edu, tim@qedbbs.com, tange@daimi.aau.dk, jsweat@brt.com, rm@califhistsoc.org, watkins@osf.org, albrecht@megatest.com, hubert.feyrer@rrzc1.rz.uni-regensburg.de, shambala!kentkar@eskimo.com, wolf@muug.mb.ca, FRICKE%DHVMHH1.BITNET@vm.gmd.de, fen@comedia.com, ehij@intgp1.att.com, everding@intgp1.att.com, markcha@microsoft.com, fled@watarts.uwaterloo.ca, sferris@math.macalstr.edu, drew@kinglear.cs.Colorado.EDU, W.J.Pauw@civ.utwente.nl, avs@daimi.aau.dk, rab@hal.EPBI.CWRU.Edu, dburton@salzo.Cary.NC.US, oblech@judgment.imp.com, lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu, todd@atlas.cb.att.com, vatavian@cc.gatech.edu, harryt@world.std.com, eyal@fir.canberra.edu.au, lxl@ihlpf.att.com, mjm@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au, jonathan@wired.com, hugh@ecotone.toad.com, cds@ssds.com, markwu@uclink.berkeley.edu, gened@hebron.connected.com, jacobsd@solar.cor2.epa.gov, zcjc1121@rpool1.rus.uni-stuttgart.de, elliot@alfred.oau.org, keith@asylum.sf.ca.us, taft!cl@nkosi.well.sf.ca.us CC: wsk@well.sf.ca.us Subject: Tape drive final headcount, try #2 [[Argh. Got a header too long message back. I'm sending this again to make sure it got out. Sorry for duplicates. -Bill] [This message is the ``official'' request for ``yeses'' to organize a group purchase of Wangtek 2GB SCSI tape drive units. I am sending it to every person who expressed interest at any point of our process so far (those who have said they are still interested) If you received this by mistake, please send me a message telling me about it. This message, and your reply to it are the ones that matter. -Bill] Hello group, OK. This is *it*. Please read this carefully, it will save headaches. This message contains a form to be filled out and sent back to me. The form will help you determine the price you will have to pay and will help make sure I have enough information to ship the drive to you. If you are inside North America, *do not* send money until you have returned the form below to me and have heard back from me confirming your order. I'm tallying for a few days to see if we can get up to 80 drives. If it is clear we will or won't get 80 drives ordered, I will begin confirming. If you are outside of North America, reply to this message telling how many drives you are interested in and send your money as soon as you can *after* you receive a message from me telling you what the shipping cost will be. (I will send each non-NA person the costs for their country.) If you don't receive the message, e-mail to me. If your e-mail address doesn't look like a non-NA address, e-mail to me. Details ------- The mostly up-to-date details of this purchase are available via anonymous ftp from ftp.wskcc.com:/tapedrive/Intermediate.details. The IP address of ftp.wskcc.com is 140.174.83.1. There is one important point regarding warranties we have to cover. All non-satisfied returns and warranty complaints have to be handled through me, since I'm making the purchase. For the first 90 days, I will help the best I can without charging. However, those of you purchasing an extended warranty (5 years) will be charged $30 for me to get involved with your warranty. This is in addition to your paying all shipping costs. Sorry, but 3 years from now I don't want to have to be thinking about a warranty on tape drives. I just found this out recently. There is also a frequently asked question file available via anonymous ftp from ftp.wskcc.com:/tapedrive/FAQ. Let me know if you need it sent to you directly. How to send money ----------------- Send money to me via either money order on a US bank, cashier's check in US dollars on a US bank, or via wire transfer. All money instruments must be cashable by me (in my name) since I'll be pooling the money before buying from CSC. Where to send money ------------------- William S. Kaster 810 Coleman Avenue Apt #16 Menlo Park, CA 94025-2452 Home phone (415) 327-4859 Here is the information for wiring funds: Citibank, F.S.B. 130 Throckmorton Avenue Mill Valley, CA 94942 William S. Kaster, Account #031030019009 New York City routing: #021000089 Branch routing: #321171184 If you are wiring, send me e-mail with the transaction number please. When ---- This is rolling right now. People outside of NA should send money as soon as they receive the shipping cost message (a separate message following this one). People inside of NA should wait until getting a confirmation e-mail back from me. In all cases, the final date for receiving payment is 7 February 1994 at 4:45pm PST. The Form -------- This form is the officical, final, counter of how many drives you will be ordering. It is important you don't change your mind after sending in the form since I will be reserving a drive(s) for you. -----cut here-------cut here------cut here------cut here------cut here----- *** Official wsk:Group purchase Wangtek 2GB tapedrive return form *** Return this to wsk@well.sf.ca.us with ``DRIVE ORDER'' in the Subject. Enter how many drives you are ordering: ____ drive(s) Will the drive(s) you order be shipped outside of N. America? (If so, Enter OUTSIDE) ____________ Enter the shipping address that you want your drives shipped to. Please include a contact name (yours hopefully) and a phone number. NOTE: I especially need phone numbers for Non-North American orders. UPS apparently needs a phone number to deliver for some reason. Please send this again, even if you know, e.g., that I already have your address. I would rather have it twice than not have it. your e-mail: Contact Name: Address: Phone number: Here are instructions for determining how much you will be paying for your drive(s): I - Compute base price (Number of drives times base) $ _______ If you are outside of North America, your base cost will be $375. This is so your money has a chance to get here in time for the purchase. (You can send money after receving another message from me telling you the shipping costs. If you are inside NA *do not send money* until you get a confirmation e-mail back from me. We will collect definite yeses until it is clear that we will OR will not make it to the final price break. We'll say $375 for now, the confirmation message will tell if we make it to 80 or not. (In which case the price will drop $6 to $369.) II - Add extended warranty coverage if desired $ _______ Read *all* of this before buying this. Enter $89 times the number of drives if you desire to extend the warranty to 5 years from the basic 90 days. PLEASE NOTE: I have to handle all warranty returns, since the order will be in my name. I do not like this, but that is the way it is. For the normal 90 day warranty period, I will handle all returns for no charge. However, and read this closely, after 90 days (i.e., in the extended warranty period) I will charge $30 to get involved with your warranty return. You will also be paying shipping costs. I do not guaranty that I will be here for 5 more years to handle warranty problems. Can I get any clearer than to say, ``Don't do this!'' ? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Subtotal Add I and II $ _______ III - Add Sales Tax $ _______ If you are picking up your drive(s) from me or are having your drive(s) sent to a California address, enter .0825 times the subtotal. For $369 enter: $30.44 For $458 enter: $37.79 For $375 enter: $30.94 For $464 enter: $38.28 etcetera. If the drive is being shipped outside of CA, enter $0. IV - Add Shipping Costs $ _______ If you are outside of North America, I will be mailing you your shipping costs directly after this message. Look for it. If you are inside North America, pick your shipping price based on the number of drives shipping: 1 drive: $13 2 drives: $15 3 drives: $17 Special handling note: If you want to ___________ pick up your drive(s) from my house in Menlo Park, put the words ``PICK UP'' in the blank to the right and enter $0 for the shipping costs above. V - Handling charge $ __________ Enter $8 times the number of drives you are ordering. ====================================================================== Total: Add I + II + III + IV + V $ __________ VI - Wire charge $ __________ If you are wiring your money to my bank account enter $10, otherwise enter $0. Grand Total (add Total + IV) $ __________ SPECIAL HANDLING Note: Please remind me if you asked for any special handling for your order. -----cut here----cut here----cut here----cut here----cuthere----cut here OK, that should do it. Any questions? Send me e-mail at wsk@well.cs.sf.us. Regards, -Bill -- From admin@tlg.org Mon Jan 24 05:03:23 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id FAA06803; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 05:03:19 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwafs14810; Mon, 24 Jan 94 08:06:18 -0500 Received: from imagine.comedia.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21003; Mon, 24 Jan 94 05:06:14 PST Received: from localhost by imagine.comedia.com (8.3/9999.1) id FAA01763; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 05:02:51 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 05:02:51 -0800 From: fen@imagine.comedia.com (Fen Labalme) Message-Id: <199401241302.FAA01763@comedia.com> To: private-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Re: DAT Drive (oops! hit send key too quick) Status: O ...guess it's time to go to bed... Anyway, this looks like a great deal -- I just sent in my confirmation. It's known to work great with FreeBSD-0.1 w/ Adaptek 1542B. I'm expecting it to work fine with my NetBSD-0.9 and Adaptek 1542C. Enjoy! (and sorry about dual messages, long non-edited-out headers, etc...) Fen From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Jan 24 05:20:20 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id FAA06804; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 05:03:20 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 05:03:20 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199401241303.FAA06804@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-cygnus-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 tlg-admin@Sunnyside.COM (Sunnyside)... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id FAA06803; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 05:03:19 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwafs14810; Mon, 24 Jan 94 08:06:18 -0500 Received: from imagine.comedia.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21003; Mon, 24 Jan 94 05:06:14 PST Received: from localhost by imagine.comedia.com (8.3/9999.1) id FAA01763; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 05:02:51 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 05:02:51 -0800 From: fen@imagine.comedia.com (Fen Labalme) Message-Id: <199401241302.FAA01763@comedia.com> To: private-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Re: DAT Drive (oops! hit send key too quick) ...guess it's time to go to bed... Anyway, this looks like a great deal -- I just sent in my confirmation. It's known to work great with FreeBSD-0.1 w/ Adaptek 1542B. I'm expecting it to work fine with my NetBSD-0.9 and Adaptek 1542C. Enjoy! (and sorry about dual messages, long non-edited-out headers, etc...) Fen From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Jan 24 05:20:21 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id FAA06799; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 04:59:04 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 04:59:04 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199401241259.FAA06799@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-cygnus-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 tlg-admin@Sunnyside.COM (Sunnyside)... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id EAA06798; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 04:59:03 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwafs14078; Mon, 24 Jan 94 08:01:56 -0500 Received: from imagine.comedia.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20979; Mon, 24 Jan 94 05:01:49 PST Received: from localhost by imagine.comedia.com (8.3/9999.1) id EAA01727; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 04:58:23 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 04:58:23 -0800 From: fen@imagine.comedia.com (Fen Labalme) Message-Id: <199401241258.EAA01727@comedia.com> To: private-garden@cygnus.com Subject: 2 Gbyte SCSI DAT for ~ $400 Received: from well.sf.ca.us by imagine.comedia.com (8.3/9999.1) id OAA04258; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 14:12:15 -0800 Received: from localhost (wsk@localhost) by well.sf.ca.us (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA11110; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 13:55:21 -0800 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 13:55:21 -0800 From: Bill Kaster Message-Id: <199401212155.NAA11110@well.sf.ca.us> To: boonlow@sfu.ca, jms@informix.com, meister@netcom.com, ruhtra@turing.toronto.edu, u8904405@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca, KHOCKENB@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU, alex@saturn.genoa.com, ayscue@vnet.net, khp@mic.dth.dk, rlee@netcom.com, andrew@werple.apana.org.au, kenny@mvuts.att.com, pl0176@psilink.com, goyal@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu, anders.frihagen@hd.uib.no, phr@netcom.com, sgoldman@encore.com, dean@cat.syr.edu, nybakken@world.std.com, wsk@mayfield.hp.com, victort@cae.wisc.edu, zstewart@nyx10.cs.du.edu, chammer@HRZ.Uni-Bielefeld.DE, eww@grebble.oau.org, axelrod@BOURBAKI.MIT.EDU, ralf@plutonix.caed.iao.fhg.de, triant@icarus.montclair.edu, esa@cyclone.atl.ga.us, graeme@hart.actrix.gen.nz, jcundiff@crl.com, duuchung@cs.utexas.edu, dgilbert@gamiga.guelphnet.dweomer.org, dlisoski@bluff.galcit.caltech.edu, jowens@kaiwan.com, david@physics.ucsc.edu, kay@nagasena.muc.de, poirier@rocket.sanders.com, pozsgay@umr.edu, bfschler@cat.syr.edu, wzhao@mcs.kent.edu, juana@physics.rutgers.edu, gehring@biotek.arc.ab.ca, hsauer@HRZ.Uni-Bielefeld.DE, ulf.sandas@compart.fi, wiegley@chaph.usc.edu, storm@mnementh.cs.mcgill.ca, ma3c+@andrew.cmu.edu, tim@qedbbs.com, tange@daimi.aau.dk, jsweat@brt.com, rm@califhistsoc.org, watkins@osf.org, albrecht@megatest.com, hubert.feyrer@rrzc1.rz.uni-regensburg.de, shambala!kentkar@eskimo.com, wolf@muug.mb.ca, FRICKE%DHVMHH1.BITNET@vm.gmd.de, fen@comedia.com, ehij@intgp1.att.com, everding@intgp1.att.com, markcha@microsoft.com, fled@watarts.uwaterloo.ca, sferris@math.macalstr.edu, drew@kinglear.cs.Colorado.EDU, W.J.Pauw@civ.utwente.nl, avs@daimi.aau.dk, rab@hal.EPBI.CWRU.Edu, dburton@salzo.Cary.NC.US, oblech@judgment.imp.com, lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu, todd@atlas.cb.att.com, vatavian@cc.gatech.edu, harryt@world.std.com, eyal@fir.canberra.edu.au, lxl@ihlpf.att.com, mjm@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au, jonathan@wired.com, hugh@ecotone.toad.com, cds@ssds.com, markwu@uclink.berkeley.edu, gened@hebron.connected.com, jacobsd@solar.cor2.epa.gov, zcjc1121@rpool1.rus.uni-stuttgart.de, elliot@alfred.oau.org, keith@asylum.sf.ca.us, taft!cl@nkosi.well.sf.ca.us CC: wsk@well.sf.ca.us Subject: Tape drive final headcount, try #2 [[Argh. Got a header too long message back. I'm sending this again to make sure it got out. Sorry for duplicates. -Bill] [This message is the ``official'' request for ``yeses'' to organize a group purchase of Wangtek 2GB SCSI tape drive units. I am sending it to every person who expressed interest at any point of our process so far (those who have said they are still interested) If you received this by mistake, please send me a message telling me about it. This message, and your reply to it are the ones that matter. -Bill] Hello group, OK. This is *it*. Please read this carefully, it will save headaches. This message contains a form to be filled out and sent back to me. The form will help you determine the price you will have to pay and will help make sure I have enough information to ship the drive to you. If you are inside North America, *do not* send money until you have returned the form below to me and have heard back from me confirming your order. I'm tallying for a few days to see if we can get up to 80 drives. If it is clear we will or won't get 80 drives ordered, I will begin confirming. If you are outside of North America, reply to this message telling how many drives you are interested in and send your money as soon as you can *after* you receive a message from me telling you what the shipping cost will be. (I will send each non-NA person the costs for their country.) If you don't receive the message, e-mail to me. If your e-mail address doesn't look like a non-NA address, e-mail to me. Details ------- The mostly up-to-date details of this purchase are available via anonymous ftp from ftp.wskcc.com:/tapedrive/Intermediate.details. The IP address of ftp.wskcc.com is 140.174.83.1. There is one important point regarding warranties we have to cover. All non-satisfied returns and warranty complaints have to be handled through me, since I'm making the purchase. For the first 90 days, I will help the best I can without charging. However, those of you purchasing an extended warranty (5 years) will be charged $30 for me to get involved with your warranty. This is in addition to your paying all shipping costs. Sorry, but 3 years from now I don't want to have to be thinking about a warranty on tape drives. I just found this out recently. There is also a frequently asked question file available via anonymous ftp from ftp.wskcc.com:/tapedrive/FAQ. Let me know if you need it sent to you directly. How to send money ----------------- Send money to me via either money order on a US bank, cashier's check in US dollars on a US bank, or via wire transfer. All money instruments must be cashable by me (in my name) since I'll be pooling the money before buying from CSC. Where to send money ------------------- William S. Kaster 810 Coleman Avenue Apt #16 Menlo Park, CA 94025-2452 Home phone (415) 327-4859 Here is the information for wiring funds: Citibank, F.S.B. 130 Throckmorton Avenue Mill Valley, CA 94942 William S. Kaster, Account #031030019009 New York City routing: #021000089 Branch routing: #321171184 If you are wiring, send me e-mail with the transaction number please. When ---- This is rolling right now. People outside of NA should send money as soon as they receive the shipping cost message (a separate message following this one). People inside of NA should wait until getting a confirmation e-mail back from me. In all cases, the final date for receiving payment is 7 February 1994 at 4:45pm PST. The Form -------- This form is the officical, final, counter of how many drives you will be ordering. It is important you don't change your mind after sending in the form since I will be reserving a drive(s) for you. -----cut here-------cut here------cut here------cut here------cut here----- *** Official wsk:Group purchase Wangtek 2GB tapedrive return form *** Return this to wsk@well.sf.ca.us with ``DRIVE ORDER'' in the Subject. Enter how many drives you are ordering: ____ drive(s) Will the drive(s) you order be shipped outside of N. America? (If so, Enter OUTSIDE) ____________ Enter the shipping address that you want your drives shipped to. Please include a contact name (yours hopefully) and a phone number. NOTE: I especially need phone numbers for Non-North American orders. UPS apparently needs a phone number to deliver for some reason. Please send this again, even if you know, e.g., that I already have your address. I would rather have it twice than not have it. your e-mail: Contact Name: Address: Phone number: Here are instructions for determining how much you will be paying for your drive(s): I - Compute base price (Number of drives times base) $ _______ If you are outside of North America, your base cost will be $375. This is so your money has a chance to get here in time for the purchase. (You can send money after receving another message from me telling you the shipping costs. If you are inside NA *do not send money* until you get a confirmation e-mail back from me. We will collect definite yeses until it is clear that we will OR will not make it to the final price break. We'll say $375 for now, the confirmation message will tell if we make it to 80 or not. (In which case the price will drop $6 to $369.) II - Add extended warranty coverage if desired $ _______ Read *all* of this before buying this. Enter $89 times the number of drives if you desire to extend the warranty to 5 years from the basic 90 days. PLEASE NOTE: I have to handle all warranty returns, since the order will be in my name. I do not like this, but that is the way it is. For the normal 90 day warranty period, I will handle all returns for no charge. However, and read this closely, after 90 days (i.e., in the extended warranty period) I will charge $30 to get involved with your warranty return. You will also be paying shipping costs. I do not guaranty that I will be here for 5 more years to handle warranty problems. Can I get any clearer than to say, ``Don't do this!'' ? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Subtotal Add I and II $ _______ III - Add Sales Tax $ _______ If you are picking up your drive(s) from me or are having your drive(s) sent to a California address, enter .0825 times the subtotal. For $369 enter: $30.44 For $458 enter: $37.79 For $375 enter: $30.94 For $464 enter: $38.28 etcetera. If the drive is being shipped outside of CA, enter $0. IV - Add Shipping Costs $ _______ If you are outside of North America, I will be mailing you your shipping costs directly after this message. Look for it. If you are inside North America, pick your shipping price based on the number of drives shipping: 1 drive: $13 2 drives: $15 3 drives: $17 Special handling note: If you want to ___________ pick up your drive(s) from my house in Menlo Park, put the words ``PICK UP'' in the blank to the right and enter $0 for the shipping costs above. V - Handling charge $ __________ Enter $8 times the number of drives you are ordering. ====================================================================== Total: Add I + II + III + IV + V $ __________ VI - Wire charge $ __________ If you are wiring your money to my bank account enter $10, otherwise enter $0. Grand Total (add Total + IV) $ __________ SPECIAL HANDLING Note: Please remind me if you asked for any special handling for your order. -----cut here----cut here----cut here----cut here----cuthere----cut here OK, that should do it. Any questions? Send me e-mail at wsk@well.cs.sf.us. Regards, -Bill -- From postmaster Mon Jan 24 09:11:22 1994 Received: from well.sf.ca.us by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id JAA06989; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 09:11:20 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost) by well.sf.ca.us (8.6.5/8.6.5) with internal id JAA09624; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 09:14:23 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 09:14:23 -0800 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: warning: cannot send message for 4 hours Message-Id: <199401241714.JAA09624@well.sf.ca.us> To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="JAA09624.759431663/well.sf.ca.us" Status: O This is a MIME-encapsulated message --JAA09624.759431663/well.sf.ca.us ********************************************** ** THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY ** ** YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE ** ********************************************** The original message was received at Mon, 24 Jan 1994 05:07:30 -0800 from tlg.org [140.174.122.23] If you need help understanding this error message, contact postmaster@well.sf.ca.us via email or call the WELL office at +1 415 332 4335. ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- pete@magnet.mednet.net (transient failure) (expanded from: ) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- pete@magnet.mednet.net... Deferred: Connection refused by magnet.mednet.net. Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours Will keep trying until message is 5 days old ----- Original message follows ----- --JAA09624.759431663/well.sf.ca.us Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: admin@tlg.org Received: from fnord.tlg.org (tlg.org [140.174.122.23]) by well.sf.ca.us (8.6.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id FAA26891; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 05:07:30 -0800 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id FAA06803; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 05:03:19 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwafs14810; Mon, 24 Jan 94 08:06:18 -0500 Received: from imagine.comedia.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21003; Mon, 24 Jan 94 05:06:14 PST Received: from localhost by imagine.comedia.com (8.3/9999.1) id FAA01763; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 05:02:51 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 05:02:51 -0800 From: fen@imagine.comedia.com (Fen Labalme) Message-Id: <199401241302.FAA01763@comedia.com> To: private-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Re: DAT Drive (oops! hit send key too quick) ...guess it's time to go to bed... Anyway, this looks like a great deal -- I just sent in my confirmation. It's known to work great with FreeBSD-0.1 w/ Adaptek 1542B. I'm expecting it to work fine with my NetBSD-0.9 and Adaptek 1542C. Enjoy! (and sorry about dual messages, long non-edited-out headers, etc...) Fen --JAA09624.759431663/well.sf.ca.us-- From postmaster Mon Jan 24 09:11:27 1994 Received: from well.sf.ca.us by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id JAA06993; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 09:11:25 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost) by well.sf.ca.us (8.6.5/8.6.5) with internal id JAB09624; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 09:14:29 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 09:14:29 -0800 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: warning: cannot send message for 4 hours Message-Id: <199401241714.JAB09624@well.sf.ca.us> To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="JAB09624.759431669/well.sf.ca.us" Status: O This is a MIME-encapsulated message --JAB09624.759431669/well.sf.ca.us ********************************************** ** THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY ** ** YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE ** ********************************************** The original message was received at Mon, 24 Jan 1994 05:03:22 -0800 from tlg.org [140.174.122.23] If you need help understanding this error message, contact postmaster@well.sf.ca.us via email or call the WELL office at +1 415 332 4335. ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- pete@magnet.mednet.net (transient failure) (expanded from: ) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- pete@magnet.mednet.net... Deferred: Connection refused by magnet.mednet.net. Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours Will keep trying until message is 5 days old ----- Original message follows ----- --JAB09624.759431669/well.sf.ca.us Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: admin@tlg.org Received: from fnord.tlg.org (tlg.org [140.174.122.23]) by well.sf.ca.us (8.6.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id FAA26734; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 05:03:22 -0800 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id EAA06798; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 04:59:03 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwafs14078; Mon, 24 Jan 94 08:01:56 -0500 Received: from imagine.comedia.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20979; Mon, 24 Jan 94 05:01:49 PST Received: from localhost by imagine.comedia.com (8.3/9999.1) id EAA01727; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 04:58:23 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 04:58:23 -0800 From: fen@imagine.comedia.com (Fen Labalme) Message-Id: <199401241258.EAA01727@comedia.com> To: private-garden@cygnus.com Subject: 2 Gbyte SCSI DAT for ~ $400 Received: from well.sf.ca.us by imagine.comedia.com (8.3/9999.1) id OAA04258; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 14:12:15 -0800 Received: from localhost (wsk@localhost) by well.sf.ca.us (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA11110; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 13:55:21 -0800 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 13:55:21 -0800 From: Bill Kaster Message-Id: <199401212155.NAA11110@well.sf.ca.us> To: boonlow@sfu.ca, jms@informix.com, meister@netcom.com, ruhtra@turing.toronto.edu, u8904405@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca, KHOCKENB@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU, alex@saturn.genoa.com, ayscue@vnet.net, khp@mic.dth.dk, rlee@netcom.com, andrew@werple.apana.org.au, kenny@mvuts.att.com, pl0176@psilink.com, goyal@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu, anders.frihagen@hd.uib.no, phr@netcom.com, sgoldman@encore.com, dean@cat.syr.edu, nybakken@world.std.com, wsk@mayfield.hp.com, victort@cae.wisc.edu, zstewart@nyx10.cs.du.edu, chammer@HRZ.Uni-Bielefeld.DE, eww@grebble.oau.org, axelrod@BOURBAKI.MIT.EDU, ralf@plutonix.caed.iao.fhg.de, triant@icarus.montclair.edu, esa@cyclone.atl.ga.us, graeme@hart.actrix.gen.nz, jcundiff@crl.com, duuchung@cs.utexas.edu, dgilbert@gamiga.guelphnet.dweomer.org, dlisoski@bluff.galcit.caltech.edu, jowens@kaiwan.com, david@physics.ucsc.edu, kay@nagasena.muc.de, poirier@rocket.sanders.com, pozsgay@umr.edu, bfschler@cat.syr.edu, wzhao@mcs.kent.edu, juana@physics.rutgers.edu, gehring@biotek.arc.ab.ca, hsauer@HRZ.Uni-Bielefeld.DE, ulf.sandas@compart.fi, wiegley@chaph.usc.edu, storm@mnementh.cs.mcgill.ca, ma3c+@andrew.cmu.edu, tim@qedbbs.com, tange@daimi.aau.dk, jsweat@brt.com, rm@califhistsoc.org, watkins@osf.org, albrecht@megatest.com, hubert.feyrer@rrzc1.rz.uni-regensburg.de, shambala!kentkar@eskimo.com, wolf@muug.mb.ca, FRICKE%DHVMHH1.BITNET@vm.gmd.de, fen@comedia.com, ehij@intgp1.att.com, everding@intgp1.att.com, markcha@microsoft.com, fled@watarts.uwaterloo.ca, sferris@math.macalstr.edu, drew@kinglear.cs.Colorado.EDU, W.J.Pauw@civ.utwente.nl, avs@daimi.aau.dk, rab@hal.EPBI.CWRU.Edu, dburton@salzo.Cary.NC.US, oblech@judgment.imp.com, lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu, todd@atlas.cb.att.com, vatavian@cc.gatech.edu, harryt@world.std.com, eyal@fir.canberra.edu.au, lxl@ihlpf.att.com, mjm@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au, jonathan@wired.com, hugh@ecotone.toad.com, cds@ssds.com, markwu@uclink.berkeley.edu, gened@hebron.connected.com, jacobsd@solar.cor2.epa.gov, zcjc1121@rpool1.rus.uni-stuttgart.de, elliot@alfred.oau.org, keith@asylum.sf.ca.us, taft!cl@nkosi.well.sf.ca.us CC: wsk@well.sf.ca.us Subject: Tape drive final headcount, try #2 [[Argh. Got a header too long message back. I'm sending this again to make sure it got out. Sorry for duplicates. -Bill] [This message is the ``official'' request for ``yeses'' to organize a group purchase of Wangtek 2GB SCSI tape drive units. I am sending it to every person who expressed interest at any point of our process so far (those who have said they are still interested) If you received this by mistake, please send me a message telling me about it. This message, and your reply to it are the ones that matter. -Bill] Hello group, OK. This is *it*. Please read this carefully, it will save headaches. This message contains a form to be filled out and sent back to me. The form will help you determine the price you will have to pay and will help make sure I have enough information to ship the drive to you. If you are inside North America, *do not* send money until you have returned the form below to me and have heard back from me confirming your order. I'm tallying for a few days to see if we can get up to 80 drives. If it is clear we will or won't get 80 drives ordered, I will begin confirming. If you are outside of North America, reply to this message telling how many drives you are interested in and send your money as soon as you can *after* you receive a message from me telling you what the shipping cost will be. (I will send each non-NA person the costs for their country.) If you don't receive the message, e-mail to me. If your e-mail address doesn't look like a non-NA address, e-mail to me. Details ------- The mostly up-to-date details of this purchase are available via anonymous ftp from ftp.wskcc.com:/tapedrive/Intermediate.details. The IP address of ftp.wskcc.com is 140.174.83.1. There is one important point regarding warranties we have to cover. All non-satisfied returns and warranty complaints have to be handled through me, since I'm making the purchase. For the first 90 days, I will help the best I can without charging. However, those of you purchasing an extended warranty (5 years) will be charged $30 for me to get involved with your warranty. This is in addition to your paying all shipping costs. Sorry, but 3 years from now I don't want to have to be thinking about a warranty on tape drives. I just found this out recently. There is also a frequently asked question file available via anonymous ftp from ftp.wskcc.com:/tapedrive/FAQ. Let me know if you need it sent to you directly. How to send money ----------------- Send money to me via either money order on a US bank, cashier's check in US dollars on a US bank, or via wire transfer. All money instruments must be cashable by me (in my name) since I'll be pooling the money before buying from CSC. Where to send money ------------------- William S. Kaster 810 Coleman Avenue Apt #16 Menlo Park, CA 94025-2452 Home phone (415) 327-4859 Here is the information for wiring funds: Citibank, F.S.B. 130 Throckmorton Avenue Mill Valley, CA 94942 William S. Kaster, Account #031030019009 New York City routing: #021000089 Branch routing: #321171184 If you are wiring, send me e-mail with the transaction number please. When ---- This is rolling right now. People outside of NA should send money as soon as they receive the shipping cost message (a separate message following this one). People inside of NA should wait until getting a confirmation e-mail back from me. In all cases, the final date for receiving payment is 7 February 1994 at 4:45pm PST. The Form -------- This form is the officical, final, counter of how many drives you will be ordering. It is important you don't change your mind after sending in the form since I will be reserving a drive(s) for you. -----cut here-------cut here------cut here------cut here------cut here----- *** Official wsk:Group purchase Wangtek 2GB tapedrive return form *** Return this to wsk@well.sf.ca.us with ``DRIVE ORDER'' in the Subject. Enter how many drives you are ordering: ____ drive(s) Will the drive(s) you order be shipped outside of N. America? (If so, Enter OUTSIDE) ____________ Enter the shipping address that you want your drives shipped to. Please include a contact name (yours hopefully) and a phone number. NOTE: I especially need phone numbers for Non-North American orders. UPS apparently needs a phone number to deliver for some reason. Please send this again, even if you know, e.g., that I already have your address. I would rather have it twice than not have it. your e-mail: Contact Name: Address: Phone number: Here are instructions for determining how much you will be paying for your drive(s): I - Compute base price (Number of drives times base) $ _______ If you are outside of North America, your base cost will be $375. This is so your money has a chance to get here in time for the purchase. (You can send money after receving another message from me telling you the shipping costs. If you are inside NA *do not send money* until you get a confirmation e-mail back from me. We will collect definite yeses until it is clear that we will OR will not make it to the final price break. We'll say $375 for now, the confirmation message will tell if we make it to 80 or not. (In which case the price will drop $6 to $369.) II - Add extended warranty coverage if desired $ _______ Read *all* of this before buying this. Enter $89 times the number of drives if you desire to extend the warranty to 5 years from the basic 90 days. PLEASE NOTE: I have to handle all warranty returns, since the order will be in my name. I do not like this, but that is the way it is. For the normal 90 day warranty period, I will handle all returns for no charge. However, and read this closely, after 90 days (i.e., in the extended warranty period) I will charge $30 to get involved with your warranty return. You will also be paying shipping costs. I do not guaranty that I will be here for 5 more years to handle warranty problems. Can I get any clearer than to say, ``Don't do this!'' ? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Subtotal Add I and II $ _______ III - Add Sales Tax $ _______ If you are picking up your drive(s) from me or are having your drive(s) sent to a California address, enter .0825 times the subtotal. For $369 enter: $30.44 For $458 enter: $37.79 For $375 enter: $30.94 For $464 enter: $38.28 etcetera. If the drive is being shipped outside of CA, enter $0. IV - Add Shipping Costs $ _______ If you are outside of North America, I will be mailing you your shipping costs directly after this message. Look for it. If you are inside North America, pick your shipping price based on the number of drives shipping: 1 drive: $13 2 drives: $15 3 drives: $17 Special handling note: If you want to ___________ pick up your drive(s) from my house in Menlo Park, put the words ``PICK UP'' in the blank to the right and enter $0 for the shipping costs above. V - Handling charge $ __________ Enter $8 times the number of drives you are ordering. ====================================================================== Total: Add I + II + III + IV + V $ __________ VI - Wire charge $ __________ If you are wiring your money to my bank account enter $10, otherwise enter $0. Grand Total (add Total + IV) $ __________ SPECIAL HANDLING Note: Please remind me if you asked for any special handling for your order. -----cut here----cut here----cut here----cut here----cuthere----cut here OK, that should do it. Any questions? Send me e-mail at wsk@well.cs.sf.us. Regards, -Bill -- --JAB09624.759431669/well.sf.ca.us-- From organic@aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:46:10 1994 Received: from mailgate.prod.aol.net by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id JAA07017; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 09:46:03 -0800 From: organic@aol.com Received: by mailgate.prod.aol.net (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA20339; Mon, 24 Jan 94 12:48:28 -0500 X-Mailer: America Online Mailer Sender: "organic" Errors-To: Reply-To: Message-Id: <9401241248.tn14523@aol.com> To: info@tlg.org Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 12:48:25 EST Subject: info Status: O request info From daemon Mon Jan 24 11:58:35 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id LAA00084; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 11:58:33 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 11:58:33 -0800 From: root (Root of all evil) Message-Id: <199401241958.LAA00084@tlg.org> To: admin Subject: tlg.org rebooted on Mon Jan 24 12:23:07 PST 1994 Status: O From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Jan 24 14:54:00 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA00191; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 14:53:59 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 14:53:59 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401242253.OAA00191@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA04121; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 14:48:16 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAvzwd01674; Fri, 21 Jan 94 17:49:49 -0500 Received: from snowbird.pdh.com (pdh.com) by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07796; Fri, 21 Jan 94 14:49:39 PST Received: from augusta.pdh.com by snowbird.pdh.com (NeXT-1.0 (From Sendmail 5.52)/NeXT-2.0) id AA15032; Fri, 21 Jan 94 14:47:24 PST From: rnielsen@pdh.com (Robert Nielsen) Message-Id: <9401212247.AA15032@snowbird.pdh.com> Received: by augusta.pdh.com (NX5.67d/NX3.0X) id AA04031; Fri, 21 Jan 94 14:48:00 -0800 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 14:48:00 -0800 Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.100) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.100) To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: new hard disks for sale. Reply-To: rnielsen@pdh.com, rnielsen@everest.com Ignore the from address, I am at a clients site. Begin forwarded message: From: Aaron Morse Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 12:22:32 -0800 To: pi_humor@next.com, buddy@next.com Subject: new hard disks for sale. If anybody is interested in a new 1.2gb SCSI II disk, I have eight for sale for $675 each. Tell your friends. :-) Aaron 415-780-3785 From craig@veritas.com Mon Jan 24 16:02:52 1994 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id QAA00236; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 16:02:50 -0800 Received: from athena.veritas.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwahk15721; Mon, 24 Jan 94 19:03:05 -0500 Received: from mobius.veritas.com by athena.veritas.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.0 #2) id m0pObFB-000AyUC; Mon, 24 Jan 94 16:02 PST Received: by mobius.veritas.com (Smail3.1.29.0 #2) id m0pObED-0001xQC; Mon, 24 Jan 94 16:01 PST Message-Id: From: craig@veritas.com (Craig Harmer) Subject: signup agreement To: admin@tlg.org Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 16:01:56 PST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: O hi, could you please send me a copy of the sign up agreement for The Little Garden Network for a V.32bis connection? also, could you please send me the name/email/phone number of a contact person that i can discuss logistics with? i'm interested in a V.32bis connection to Toad Hall, on clayton street. (i made this same request on friday via email to info@tlg.com and i haven't heard anything back yet.) craig. -- {apple,amdahl}!veritas!craig craig@veritas.com (415) 668-3564 (h) (408) 727-1222 x220 (w) [views expressed above aren't Veritas' views, nor should they be mistaken for the views of any responsible person.] From tomj@fido.wps.com Mon Jan 24 16:29:52 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id QAA00250; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 16:29:44 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA05346; Mon, 24 Jan 94 16:30:01 -0800 Received: from toad.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA05268; Mon, 24 Jan 94 16:17:00 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by toad.com id AA26889; Mon, 24 Jan 94 16:16:54 PST Received: from sphagnum.cygnus.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08719; Mon, 24 Jan 94 16:16:49 PST From: wilson@cygnus.com (Jim Wilson) Received: from localhost (wilson@localhost) by sphagnum.cygnus.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) id QAA29333; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 16:16:48 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 16:16:48 -0800 Message-Id: <199401250016.QAA29333@sphagnum.cygnus.com> To: gnu@cygnus.com, tomj@cygnus.com Subject: PA POP phone line bill Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O I have a bill for $767.10. This includes the charges for moving one end of the line from TIS to Cygnus in Mountain View. I certainly hope I don't have to pay the whole bill. It is due Jan 31, 1994. Jim From genovese@es.net Mon Jan 24 16:42:36 1994 Received: from osi-west.es.net by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id QAA00266; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 16:42:24 -0800 Received: from ophelia.nersc.gov by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <08742-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 16:42:41 +0000 Received: from LOCALHOST.nersc.gov by ophelia.nersc.gov (4.1/ESnet-1.2) id AA07195; Mon, 24 Jan 94 16:42:39 PST Message-Id: <9401250042.AA07195@ophelia.nersc.gov> To: info@tlg.org Reply-To: Genovese@es.net Subject: General info request - assumes automatic reply X-Mailer: exmh version 1.2 1/14/94 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 16:42:37 -0800 From: Tony Genovese Status: O From wsk@well.sf.ca.us Tue Jan 25 01:33:21 1994 Received: from well.sf.ca.us by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id BAA00646; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 01:33:20 -0800 Received: from localhost (wsk@localhost) by well.sf.ca.us (8.6.5/8.6.5) id BAA12565; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 01:33:49 -0800 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 01:33:49 -0800 From: Bill Kaster Message-Id: <199401250933.BAA12565@well.sf.ca.us> To: admin@tlg.org Subject: [thart@infocentric.brisnet.org.au: Re: wsk:Group tape drive FINAL count message has been sent.] Status: O Hi, I need to have my host set up to reverse map the IP to my host name. Below is an example of the problems this is causing. My machine is set up to reverse already. It is the main DNS machine that needs to be fixed. Regards, -Bill -- Return-Path: infocentric!infocentric.brisnet.org.au!thart@brisnethub1.brisnet.org.au From: thart@infocentric.brisnet.org.au (Tony Hart) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 94 14:39:24 +1000 To: wsk@well.sf.ca.us References: <199401220737.XAA07911@well.sf.ca.us> Subject: Re: wsk:Group tape drive FINAL count message has been sent. Organization: Infocentric Pty Ltd, Australia X-Mailer: Helldiver 1.05 (Waffle 1.65) Lines: 36 In <199401220737.XAA07911@well.sf.ca.us> Bill Kaster writes: >Hello, all. >I have sent out the ``final headcount'' message. Send mail >if you haven't received it (or grab it off of the ftp site). Bill, I didn't get the final headcount massage and dec's ftpmail server doesn't seem to like your IP address for some reason. Could you mail me the headcount massage please. Thanks Heaps, Tony. >>>> There is a problem with the host name you specified. >>>> FTPMAIL will not contact a host whose name cannot be >>>> mapped into an IP address, or whose IP addresses do >>>> not all map back to valid names. The problem shown >>>> below is something ftpmail-admin@ftp-gw-1.pa.dec.com >>>> CANNOT FIX! Please contact the Zone Technical Contact >>>> of the affected domain (or its postmaster if you don't >>>> have a way to find the Zone Technical Contact). We are >>>> not in the business of reporting Domain Name Service >>>> errors to the respective domain owners, and if you report >>>> such an error to ftpmail-admin@ftp-gw-1.pa.dec.com, we >>>> will probably just ignore it. The DNS error was: >>>> >>>> IP addr [140.174.83.1] has no in-addr PTR RR >>>> >>>> If you do not understand any of this, you should read >>>> RFC's 1033, 1034, and 1035. You can get RFC's from a >>>> variety of places, including GATEKEEPER.DEC.COM in its >>>> /pub/net/info/rfc directory (grab "rfcNNNN.txt"). >>>> >!!! (due to this error, the job will not be processed) > - From gnu@toad.com Tue Jan 25 01:35:36 1994 Received: from toad.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id BAA00651; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 01:35:31 -0800 From: gnu@toad.com Received: from localhost by toad.com id AA04486; Tue, 25 Jan 94 01:35:59 PST Message-Id: <9401250935.AA04486@toad.com> To: admin@tlg.org, gnu@toad.com Subject: draft TLG Low Speed FAQ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 01:35:59 -0800 Status: O I figured we'd better look it over before letting the members rip it up. The Little Garden - Low Speed Internet Service Frequently Asked Questions List Posted monthly to Usenet newsgroup FIXME Most recent update: January 25, 1994 http://tlg.org/lowspeed-faq.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "The best way to get information on Usenet isn't to ask a question, but to post the wrong information." -- aahz@netcom.com Q0. "What's in this FAQ?" A: This document will explain how to decide whether to get low-speed Internet service from The Little Garden, and how to start the process if you decide to do it. ("Low speed" means slower than 56,000 bits per second.) If you are interested in high-speed service, and can spend at least $6000 immediately (which is what it costs), then see the high-speed FAQ tlg-highspeed-faq.html XXXXX. If you are having a problem with your network connection, see the network problem solving FAQ tlg-solving-faq.html XXXX. If this FAQ doesn't answer some question that you think it should, send mail to info@tlg.org with full details -- the entire question, the context, and a sample answer that you would find acceptable. Table of Contents Q1. "What is The Little Garden?" Q2. "What kind of low-speed service does TLG provide?" Q3. "What does a low speed connection cost?" Q4. "What computer and software do I need on my end?" Q5. "What other equipment do I need?" Q6. "How do I sign up?" Q7. "How do I arrange phone lines for my TLG service?" Q8. "What happens if a member doesn't pay promptly?" Q9. "How do I reach The Little Garden?" Q10. "I live where you don't have service yet. What can I do?" Q11. "Who maintains this FAQ, anyway? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Q1. "What is The Little Garden?" A: The Little Garden (TLG) provides Internet connectivity in the greater San Francisco Bay Area. We have Points of Presence (POPs) in San Francisco, Mountain View and Palo Alto. We have affiliates in other regions providing similar service. The Little Garden runs like a buyers' club, and many members become involved in the operation of TLG, though this is not required. We are legally a branch of an Oregon for-profit company called RGnet Inc, but we feel more like a club than a company. Our prices are the cost of connectivity plus our overhead. In exchange for these low prices, we expect members to be technically self-sufficient. TLG provides high-quality, reliable basic IP connectivity via full-time SLIP or PPP. We also provide primary or secondary Domain Name Service (DNS) and in many cases, preassigned IP address space. We provide you with the help necessary to get online. We don't provide shell accounts, shared, part-time IP, etc. TLG places no restrictions on content or use of your connection. You may resell it , provide service to "back door" hosts, etc. You are required to comply with any AUPs (Acceptable Use Policies) of any networks you communicate with or through and any applicable laws. Compliance with these rules are the member's responsibility. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Q2. "What kind of low-speed service does TLG provide?" A: TLG offers full-time IP (Internet Protocol) connections using ordinary telephone lines and ordinary dialup-type modems. For a fixed monthly charge, you will be able to send and receive information in a fraction of a second with any other computer on the worldwide Internet -- or with multiple computers simultaneously. Your computer will be "on the Internet" and can provide a full range of services to other Internet users, if you like. We will dedicate a telephone line to your use, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. This will be an ordinary "voice" telephone line in one of our POPs, attached to an ordinary modem, which is plugged into one of our IP "routers" and thus into the rest of the Internet. At your home or office, you will use another ordinary phone line for your connection. You will attach another modem to it, and plug the modem into your own computer. With the right software, your computer will be able to dial the modem as necessary to connect you to our telephone line. Once connected, your computer and our router will establish a SLIP (Serial Line Internet Protocol) or PPP (Point-to-Point Protocol) connection across the modems and phone lines. This will allow your computer (and the rest of the machines on your local area network, if you have one) to send and receive information with every other machine on the Internet. TLG can help you get this service set up and running, and can provide a backup site for your email and domain name information. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Q3. "What does a low speed connection cost?" A: One-time installation fee (non-refundable) . . $250 Monthly charges for V.32bis modems . . . . . $70/mo Monthly charges for V.FAST modems . . . . . $130/mo Besides what you pay us for your "long-distance" Internet service, you will also pay somebody for other goods and services: Probable telco one-time installation fees, total . . $70 XXX Probable monthly telco charges, total . . . . . . . . $21/mo Pair of v32bis/v42bis modems, retail . . . . . . . . $400 You have to pay the one-time installation fee, and send us one of the modems, before TLG will initiate the connection. Members are invoiced for monthly connect fees three months at a time. Net 15 days, unless otherwise arranged. Initial billing starts with the first full week following the connection completion, or three weeks from start of the installation, whichever comes latest. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Q4. "What computer and software do I need on my end?" A: You need a computer that is capable of running the Internet protocols (TCP/IP). The machine that you plug your modem into must be one that we understand, or else you have to be pretty good at managing IP networking on it because we won't be able to help you. (You do *not* need a separate router; you can run SLIP/PPP directly into your personal computer or host computer.) We currently understand these machines and operating systems: PC clones: Free Unix clones -- NetBSD or FreeBSD. This is a preferred alternative. It comes with all the software that you need, and we know how to configure it for you. DOS: Not recommended, but it can be made to work with Phil Karn's NOS (KA9Q) software. Commercial Unix'es (SVR4, UnixWare, SCO, etc): These often come WITHOUT the networking in the basic package, and it's usually priced for businesses. Check before you commit! XXX Free Unix clones -- Linux This works well. It probably XXX comes with all the software that you need. Contact YXXXXXmailinglist@tlg.org for further details. MS-Windows The "Winsock" library is the basic software needed (XXX?) but you may also need XXXXXX. Not recommended. Windows NT Supposedly supports TCP/IP, but we haven't ever worked with it yet. Macintosh MacOS Get "MacTCP" from Apple. They call it "TCP/IP Connection for Macintosh" and it's part number M8113Z/A. It costs about $70. This does not come with a SLIP or PPP driver, though, so you will also need to get XXXXX. MacTCP will not forward packets from your modem to your Ethernet or LocalTalk network, so if you have multiple computers that you want to put on the Internet, don't hook the modem to a MacOS machine. A/UX This should work straight out of the box. Contact hugh@toad.com for help, if needed. Sun Workstations SunOS 4.x A recommended configuration. Comes with TCP/IP, but needs a SLIP or PPP driver, which you can get from XXXXXX. Contact XXXXXXmailinglist@tlg.org for help, if needed. Solaris 2.x Includes both TCP/IP and a PPP driver. However, these machines are hard to configure and administer. Not recommended. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Q5. "What other equipment do I need?" A: A pair of suitable modems, one for each end of the link between you and The Little Garden. You retain ownership of these. They should NOT be PEP modems. Plain old v.32bis/v.42bis modems is fine; as of Oct 93, under $200 each from Fry's Electronics. You need these to be *reliable* devices. US Robotics, ZyXEL, Telebit, etc are fine. Please avoid: older Supra, older Digicom, Zoom, and likely others. If you're not familiar with modems, ask us. Two phone lines; one at your site, and one at ours. See the "How do I arrange phone lines?" answer below for specifics. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Q6. "How do I sign up?" A: First, let's make sure. You read all this about The Little Garden, found out what we do, and it's what you want. The price is right. You have the hardware and software necessary to maintain your end of the connection. You understand what your responsibilities are, and what TLG's are. You understand the payment schedule. FTP to tlg.org and get the file lowspeed-signup.form. Fill it out and email it to info@tlg.com. Or print it out and postal-mail it to us at our contact address below. * You fill out the form and send it to us. This provides you with some basic info (which POP you'll be connecting to, etc), and when you return it, tells us what we need to complete your order. * You start Pacific Hell installing both of your phone lines. * We invoice you for the install fee, payable immediately. * You deliver the install fee and one of your modems to us, including power supply and manual. * After our phone line is in, we wire it to our equipment room, and install the modem at the TLG POP. We will initialize the modem and test the installation. * At this point, you are responsible for making good your end of the link, and your host software. TLG people will gladly help out with all phases, though ultimately it's your responsibility. * You're up and running when we can repeatably pass IP packets between your system and our routers. You may not have yet completed higher-level services like: DNS, domain-name registration, external network publishing (NACRs and the like); all of your everyday services (Telnet, FTP, etc). It does include PING. AT THIS TIME, your billing for monthly TLG services will begin. TLG billing starts at the first of the month, and is payable upon receipt. Unless otherwise arranged, we bill you ahead for three months of service, except for high speed service, for which we bill monthly. If you want other arrangements, please let us know AHEAD OF TIME. Your first month is treated specially. First, the turn-on/billing date is moved forward to the nearest 1/4th month; ie. if you were connected on the 3rd of the month, we'd round that up to the 7th, and bill you for 3/4ths of a month. From them on, billing is done on the first of the month. * You get the higher level services running, as desired. We can help if you run into trouble. Please refer to the file 'how-to-SLIP' (applies to PPP too) on how to get the connection going, interfaces ifconfig'ed, and routing established. Please refer to file (NOT WRITTEN YET) on how to get your name service going, and register your domain with the NIC. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Q7. "How do I arrange phone lines for my TLG service?" A: Do *not* tell them it's for data. This isn't to trick PacHell; using phone lines for data is perfectly legitimate. It's because it confuses them. You were warned. Use residential lines if you can. You'll save a lot of money. If you cannot all is not lost. Keep in mind that *you* are responsible for maintaining your link; eg. *your* site dials the remote, TLG site. Even and especially if you get inadvertantly disconnected. The phone situation depends on which TLG POP (Point of Presence, also known as Physical Location) you connect to. This will depend on your own physical location and situation. Here are the details for our current POPs: 444 MARKET ST, SUITE 3075, SAN FRANCISCO CA 94111 This is a 40 story high-rise commercial site. This is a standard business location, so business phones are the baseline. You may be able to convince them that you are telecommuting, and since you are paying for the line, it should be residential service. When you have a line installed, please inform Pacific Bell of these things: * Please have the bill sent to my address * Tell them "I will do my own inside wiring" (in fact, TLG people will do it, but saying this avoids having to introduce complexities.) * No-one needs to be on-site to have the line installed; the person taking the order is filling out a form, and doesn't know that there's just a large, commercial telco closet that the installer has a key to, and just leaves the line ready for TLG to run upstairs. CYGNUS SUPPORT, 1937 LANDINGS DRIVE, MTN. VIEW CA 94043 This is a commercial site, of "campus" style buildings. This is a standard business location, so business phones are the baseline. You may be able to convince them that you are telecommuting, and since you are paying for the line, it should be residential service. When you have a line installed, please inform Pacific Bell of these things: When you have a line installed, please inform Pacific Bell of these things: * Please have the bill sent to my address * Tell them "I will do my own inside wiring" (in fact, TLG people will do it, but saying this avoids having to introduce complexities.) * No-one needs to be on-site to have the line installed; the person taking the order is filling out a form, and doesn't know that there's a telco closet that the installer has a key to, and just leaves the line ready for TLG into Cygnus. TOAD HALL, 210 CLAYTON St, SAN FRANCISCO CA 94117 This is a residential site, with an unusual phone line situation. You may install a standard, residential line there. We reserve this POP for sites that require "callback" arrangements. When you have a line installed, please inform Pacific Bell of the following: * Please have the bill sent to my address * Tell them "I will do my own inside wiring" (in fact, TLG people will do it, but saying this avoids having to introduce complexities.) * Installation does not require access to the building; the wiring terminations are on the side of the building. 814 UNIVERSITY AVENUE, PALO ALTO, CA 94301 This is a residential apartment complex, with rather ordinary phone line situation -- congested. You may install a standard, residential line there. We reserve this POP for sites that require "callback" arrangements, preferring the Cygnus Support location in Mtn. View. When you have a line installed, please inform Pacific Bell of the following: * Please have the bill sent to my address * Tell them "I will do my own inside wiring" (in fact, TLG people will do it, but saying this avoids having to introduce complexities.) * Installation does not require access to the building; the wiring terminations are on the side of the building. IF YOUR SITE'S MODEM LINE IS BILLED AS A BUSINESS CALL: Some members are in commercial locations, and residential service is not available. Since you will want to stay connected 24 hrs/day, and business calls are billed at $0.01/minute, your inexpensive network link will run you... $432/month. Not good. To avoid this, you may connect to one of the residential POPs, and use a modem capable of dial-back at the TLG end. And slightly more complex dialing scripts, available from TLG. You will still be responsible for initiating the connect; but instead of just dialing and staying connected, you'll use the modem-callback feature to have the remote (residential) site call your local (business) site back; each connection will therefore cost you the initial minute only, or $0.04. Since connections tend to stay up for weeks or months at a time, the cost is negligable. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Q8. "What happens if a member doesn't pay promptly?" A: This is the Bad Stuff no one wants to think about, most of all TLG. We haven't had to do this yet, lucky us. We will gladly make specific arrangements IN ADVANCE that override these things, such as payment schedule changes, etc. INSTALL FEES ARE DUE IMMEDIATELY UPON RECEIPT OF THE BILL -- we reserve the right to stall or stop installation if the install bill is not paid promptly. INSTALL FEES ARE NOT REFUNDABLE. Installation fees cover our labor and expenses, and the actual cost of providing your connection. WE WILL KEEP YOUR EQUIPMENT IN CASE OF NON-PAYMENT. SERVICE MAY BE CUT OFF after a bill becomes 30 days past due. It is the member's responsibility to keep track of this! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Q9. "How do I reach The Little Garden?" The Little Garden PO Box 410923 San Francisco CA 94141-0923 +1 415 487 1902 email info@admin.tlg.rg.net XXX gopher admin.tlg.rg.net XXX FIXME WWW http://tlg.org/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Q10. "I live where you don't have service yet. What can I do?" A: Try talking to one of our affiliated networks. We all work together to provide low-cost Internet service over a broader geographical range. If you don't live in any of these areas, then find a local low-cost provider, or consider starting your own! Santa Cruz -- Santa Cruz Community Internet (scruz-net) 903 Pacific Ave. #203-A Santa Cruz, CA 95060 (408) 457-5050 info@scruz.net Santa Cruz Community Internet serves the entirety of Santa Cruz County, CA. scruz-net offers the following TCP/IP services: o medium speed 56kb and 64kb o leased line and frame relay o ISDN and centrex IS service at 64kb or 128kb o 14.4kb leased line or 14.4kb centrex o 14.4kb dial-up SLIP and PPP scruz-net offers the following application services: o news and mail forwarding o DNS registration and nameservice o FTP archive and gopher server Marin, Sonoma, and Mendocino Counties -- North Bay Network 20 Minor Court San Rafael, CA 94903 (415) 472-1600 Email: info@nbn.com Oregon, southern Washington state -- RAINet 9501 SW Westhaven Portland, OR 97225 (503) 297-8820 admin@rain.com RAINet offers the following TCP/IP services: o medium speed 56kb and 64kb o leased line and frame relay o 14.4kb leased line o 14.4kb dial-up SLIP and PPP RAINet offers the following application services: o news and mail forwarding o DNS registration and nameservice o UNIX shell accounts o POP mail accounts and POP serial dialup o dialup and PPP/SLIP gopher clients When you are in RAINet's geographic area (Oregon and Southern Washington), RAINet offers free access to customers of other RGnet consortium networks, e.g. The Little Garden. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Q11. "Who maintains this FAQ, anyway? A: To get the latest version, ftp to tlg.org and get the file /pub/tlg-lowspeed-faq.html. Or use WWW with URL http://tlg.org/tlg-lowspeed-faq.html. Send corrections and questions to info@tlg.org. From bali!siress@tidalwave.portal.com Tue Jan 25 10:20:27 1994 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA00959; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 10:20:18 -0800 Received: from portal.unix.portal.com (portal.unix.portal.com [156.151.1.100]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.4/8.6.4-1.13) with ESMTP id KAA03263 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 10:21:42 -0800 Received: from quark.unix.portal.com by portal.unix.portal.com (2.31) id KAA28798; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 10:21:40 -0800 Received: from tidalwave.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by quark.unix.portal.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) with UUCP id KAA23246 for info@tlg.org; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 10:21:38 -0800 Received: from bali.UUCP by tidalwave.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15869; Tue, 25 Jan 94 10:11:14 PST Received: by bali.tidalwave.com (4.1/TWT-1.1) id AA00892; Tue, 25 Jan 94 09:54:49 PST Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 09:54:49 PST From: siress@bali (Tony Siress) Message-Id: <9401251754.AA00892@bali.tidalwave.com> To: info@tlg.org Subject: Setup Service for Tidalwave Status: O Please send info Tony Siress Tidalwave Technologies, Inc. One Daniel Burnham Court, Suite 225C San Francisco, CA 94109 Tel 415.441.0985 Fax 415.441.0340 email: tony@tidalwave.com From raburg@well.sf.ca.us Tue Jan 25 10:46:28 1994 Received: from well.sf.ca.us by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA01014; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 10:46:21 -0800 Received: from localhost (raburg@localhost) by well.sf.ca.us (8.6.5/8.6.5) id KAA11041 for info@tlg.org; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 10:47:02 -0800 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 10:47:02 -0800 From: Richard A Burg Message-Id: <199401251847.KAA11041@well.sf.ca.us> To: info@tlg.org Subject: Info Please Status: O info raburg@well.sf.ca.us From tomm@ingres.com Tue Jan 25 12:38:24 1994 Received: from ingres.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA01086; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 12:38:18 -0800 From: tomm@ingres.com Received: from pony.ingres.com by ingres.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/INGRES/zool/06.06.93) id AA10470; Tue, 25 Jan 94 12:39:16 PST Received: from monster by pony.ingres.com (5.65c8+/INGRES/Router/pony/08.16.93) id AA14364; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 12:39:22 -0800 Received: by monsterngres.com.ingres.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/INGRES/AIX/monster/08.16.93) id AA24971; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 12:25:57 -0800 Message-Id: <9401252025.AA24971@monsterngres.com.ingres.com> Subject: I want to do it! To: admin@tlg.org Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 12:25:56 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 77 Status: O Hi, I'm excited about joining your network! Let me know what to do. --tom From lee@bio.com Tue Jan 25 12:50:58 1994 Received: from brnet.bio.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA01129; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 12:50:55 -0800 From: Lee Jensen To: admin@tlg.org Subject: bandwidth X-Mailer: ScoMail 1.0 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 12:48:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <9401251248.aa11786@brnet.bio.com> Status: O Hi TLG: I'm still looking for a little more speed. I've seen some notes concerning the prospects of locating servers at 444 Market. Is that a possibility and what are the details? In my case we'd probably want to begin with a SPARC 2, but would need to be able to upgrade later. Another possibilty is to use multiple V.FC (28.8 Kbps) modems. Do you know what people are getting for ping times and transfer rates with these? If this was covered at the meeting, I'm sorry that I just couldn't make it due to a conflict with another meeting I needed to go to. I'll try for future meetings. Thanks -- ========================================================== = Lee Jensen, PhD = = VITADATA | Voice: (510) 237-6113 = = 614 Commodore Drive | Fax: (510) 237-6083 = = Richmond, CA 94804 | Internet: lee@bio.com = ========================================================== From tomj Tue Jan 25 12:55:42 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA01146; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 12:55:34 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401252055.MAA01146@tlg.org> Subject: Re: I want to do it! To: tomm@ingres.com Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 12:55:33 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401252025.AA24971@monsterngres.com.ingres.com> from "tomm@ingres.com" at Jan 25, 94 12:25:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1492 Status: O T H E L I T T L E G A R D E N return this ENTIRE form to: admin@tlg.org. (You might want to keep a copy for yourself) Please fill any ***'ed items below (ie. information I don't have) and change any incorrect items, and mail it back to me. Some of it will be posted to a contact list available to little garden members; the rest of it I'll keep private. ---------- Please don't remove anything below this line ---------- Your Little Garden POP will be: RGNet, Inc, suite 3075, 444 Market Street, S.F. 94111 Type of circuit you are installing: *** voice-grade You've been assigned 8-bit subnet: 140.174.115 For routing purposes, the address of the Little Garden router/gateway ("next hop") is: 140.174.122.3 *You* tell *us* what the first address is on your end (eg. your SLIP or PPP port that's the gateway to your network): *** PUBLIC INFORMATION: Company/site name (optional): *** Person/contact name: *** Voice phone to contact for problems: *** Domain name you'll register: *** person@domain to send mail to: *** TECHNICAL INFORMATION: Do you want SLIP or PPP? *** (SLIP only) Want van Jacobson compression? (y,n) [recommended] *** UNLISTED INFORMATION: Phone/circuit number at TLG site: *** Mailing address (for billing): Company/person if different: *** Street, etc: *** City, etc: *** (Other info required? Add here.) *** -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From raburg@well.sf.ca.us Tue Jan 25 13:00:08 1994 Received: from well.sf.ca.us by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA01154; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 13:00:06 -0800 Received: from DialupEudora (raburg@well.sf.ca.us [198.93.4.10]) by well.sf.ca.us (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA28346 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 13:00:40 -0800 Message-Id: <199401252100.NAA28346@well.sf.ca.us> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 13:01:56 -0800 To: admin@tlg.org From: raburg@well.sf.ca.us (Richard Burg) Subject: Re: The Little Garden -- Internet connectivity Status: O >This message is an automatic response to your request for information >on The Little Garden (TLG). Your message was forwarded to a human >as well, so if you asked any specific questions they'll get answered >shortly. > > Signed, > > Admin@tlg.org I gather you do not offer dialup PPP at 14.4? Richard RIchard (raburg) From jonathan@cyborganic.com Tue Jan 25 13:15:24 1994 Received: from cyborganic by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA01194; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 13:15:16 -0800 Received: from dairyland.cyborganic.com by cyborganic (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA03936; Tue, 25 Jan 94 21:15:40 GMT Message-Id: <9401252115.AA03936@cyborganic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 13:16:08 -0800 To: admin@tlg.org From: Jonathan Steuer Subject: Uhoh Cc: Brian Behlendorf Status: O FYI, this happened last night. -j- >From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf) >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 02:47:12 -0800 >X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91) >To: jonathan@cyborganic.com >Subject: Uhoh > >Oh, sure, and just as I was doing real work finally! :) > >traceroute wired.com >traceroute to wired.com (140.174.72.1), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets > 1 inr-111-cs2.Berkeley.EDU (128.32.149.13) 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms > 2 inr-108-eecs.Berkeley.EDU (128.32.120.108) 10 ms 0 ms 10 ms > 3 UCB2.BARRNet.NET (192.31.161.4) 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms > 4 SU-CM.BARRNET.NET (131.119.2.3) 10 ms 10 ms 20 ms > 5 149.20.9.1 (149.20.9.1) 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms > 6 cix.sprint.net (149.20.4.2) 10 ms 20 ms 10 ms > 7 sl-stk-3-F0.sprintlink.net (144.228.8.231) 10 ms 30 ms 30 ms > 8 gw-sf-sprint.tlg.rg.net (140.174.122.1) 40 ms 30 ms 30 ms > 9 sl-stk-3-S2-T1.sprintlink.net (144.228.200.33) 30 ms 30 ms 40 ms >10 gw-sf-sprint.tlg.rg.net (140.174.122.1) 30 ms 40 ms 30 ms >11 sl-stk-3-S2-T1.sprintlink.net (144.228.200.33) 40 ms 30 ms 40 ms >12 gw-sf-sprint.tlg.rg.net (140.174.122.1) 40 ms 50 ms 40 ms >13 sl-stk-3-S2-T1.sprintlink.net (144.228.200.33) 40 ms 40 ms 50 ms >14 gw-sf-sprint.tlg.rg.net (140.174.122.1) 40 ms 50 ms 50 ms >15 sl-stk-3-S2-T1.sprintlink.net (144.228.200.33) 40 ms 50 ms 40 ms >16 gw-sf-sprint.tlg.rg.net (140.174.122.1) 50 ms 50 ms 60 ms >17 sl-stk-3-S2-T1.sprintlink.net (144.228.200.33) 60 ms 50 ms 60 ms >18 gw-sf-sprint.tlg.rg.net (140.174.122.1) 60 ms 60 ms 60 ms >19 sl-stk-3-S2-T1.sprintlink.net (144.228.200.33) 70 ms 90 ms 60 ms >20 gw-sf-sprint.tlg.rg.net (140.174.122.1) 100 ms 100 ms 70 ms >21 sl-stk-3-S2-T1.sprintlink.net (144.228.200.33) 70 ms 80 ms 70 ms >22 gw-sf-sprint.tlg.rg.net (140.174.122.1) 80 ms 90 ms 80 ms >23 sl-stk-3-S2-T1.sprintlink.net (144.228.200.33) 90 ms 70 ms 70 ms >24 gw-sf-sprint.tlg.rg.net (140.174.122.1) 80 ms 100 ms 80 ms >25 sl-stk-3-S2-T1.sprintlink.net (144.228.200.33) 820 ms 90 ms 70 ms >26 gw-sf-sprint.tlg.rg.net (140.174.122.1) 90 ms 100 ms 90 ms >27 sl-stk-3-S2-T1.sprintlink.net (144.228.200.33) 120 ms 100 ms 110 ms >28 gw-sf-sprint.tlg.rg.net (140.174.122.1) 130 ms 120 ms 90 ms >29 sl-stk-3-S2-T1.sprintlink.net (144.228.200.33) 90 ms 100 ms 90 ms >30 gw-sf-sprint.tlg.rg.net (140.174.122.1) 120 ms 100 ms 130 ms > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- / jonathan steuer / / wired magazine / cyborganic media / stanford communication dept. / / jonathan@cyborganic.com /h 415.255.1120/o 415.904.6457/f 415.255.8756/ From john@gain.com Tue Jan 25 16:11:23 1994 Received: from naples.gain.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id QAA01376; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 16:11:16 -0800 Received: from cayenne (cayenne.gain.com) by naples.gain.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Gain-Naples-Brent-920510) id AA14192 to info@admin.tlg.rg.net; Tue, 25 Jan 94 16:11:55 PST Received: from augusta.gain.com by cayenne (4.1/SMI-4.1/Gain-Cayenne-drm-011893) id AA21613; Tue, 25 Jan 94 16:11:54 PST Received: from miami.gain.com by augusta.gain.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01995; Tue, 25 Jan 94 16:11:54 PST Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 16:11:54 PST From: john@gain.com (John Coker) Message-Id: <9401260011.AA01995@augusta.gain.com> To: info@admin.tlg.rg.net Subject: further information on TLG Status: O I'm interested in establishing a ``real'' internet connection and would like more info. on the options. I have a NetBlazer ST and three machines on my local network. 1) is ISDN available to me? How much would it cost? 2) will my NetBlazer be sufficent to connect as a 56Kb line? John From pozar@kumr.lns.com Tue Jan 25 16:44:45 1994 Received: from kumr.lns.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id QAA01419; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 16:44:41 -0800 Received: by kumr.lns.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.3) id ; Tue, 25 Jan 94 16:45 PST Message-Id: From: pozar@kumr.lns.com (Tim Pozar) Subject: Re: further information on TLG To: john@gain.com (John Coker) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 16:45:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9401260011.AA01995@augusta.gain.com> from "John Coker" at Jan 25, 94 04:11:54 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 635 Status: O John Coker wrote: > I'm interested in establishing a ``real'' internet connection and would like > more info. on the options. I have a NetBlazer ST and three machines on my > local network. > > 1) is ISDN available to me? How much would it cost? We haven't decided the pricing on this yet. We can point you to a provider that does do it. > 2) will my NetBlazer be sufficent to connect as a 56Kb line? Ya. It should handle up to T1. Tim -- Internet: pozar@kumr.lns.com Snail: Tim Pozar / KKSF / 77 Maiden Lane / San Francisco CA 94108 / USA POTS: +1 415 788 2022 Radio: KC6GNJ / KAE6247 From rnielsen@everest.com Tue Jan 25 18:40:07 1994 Received: from openlink.openlink.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA01510; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 18:40:02 -0800 Received: by openlink.openlink.com with UUCP id AA02914 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for admin@tlg.org); Tue, 25 Jan 1994 18:41:49 -0800 Received: by everest.com (NX5.67c/NeXT-1.0+/Anterior) id AA15460; Tue, 25 Jan 94 18:36:21 -0800 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 18:36:21 -0800 From: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen) Message-Id: <9401260236.AA15460@everest.com> To: tomj@wps.com Subject: My modem is alive? Cc: admin@tlg.org Status: O Greetings All, It appears that my modem at Cygnus is alive and well. How can this be? Over a week ago it was pronouced dead (OK, actually the power supply was pronounced dead). Now it is live and well. Not that I am complaining or anything, but what happened? Did someone swap the power supply? Cheers, Robert From tomm@ingres.com Tue Jan 25 19:42:58 1994 Received: from ingres.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA01583; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 19:42:50 -0800 From: tomm@ingres.com Received: from pony.ingres.com by ingres.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/INGRES/zool/06.06.93) id AA15533; Tue, 25 Jan 94 19:43:57 PST Received: from monster by pony.ingres.com (5.65c8+/INGRES/Router/pony/08.16.93) id AA28927; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 19:44:03 -0800 Received: by monsterngres.com.ingres.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/INGRES/AIX/monster/08.16.93) id AA28946; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 19:30:38 -0800 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 19:30:38 -0800 Message-Id: <9401260330.AA28946@monsterngres.com.ingres.com> To: admin@tlg.org Subject: Sent to wrong address first Status: O Hi, I think I may have sent this to the wrong address. Here it is again. Please let me know what I need to do next! Here's my completed form. I believe it is right. I couldn't fill out the TLG phone# since I haven't had it installed yet. And I believe the gateway address on my end is any arbitrary ip address I chose (the machine that has the modem on it, right?) Oh, if you want to email invoice me for the setup fee, that's fine. ---------------------cut here-------------------------- Your Little Garden POP will be: RGNet, Inc, suite 3075, 444 Market Street, S.F. 94111 Type of circuit you are installing: *** voice-grade You've been assigned 8-bit subnet: 140.174.115 For routing purposes, the address of the Little Garden router/gateway ("next hop") is: 140.174.122.3 *You* tell *us* what the first address is on your end (eg. your SLIP or PPP port that's the gateway to your network): 140.174.115.1 PUBLIC INFORMATION: Company/site name (optional): *** Person/contact name: Tom Markson Voice phone to contact for problems: 415-648-4207 Domain name you'll register: twilight.com person@domain to send mail to: tom@twilight.com TECHNICAL INFORMATION: Do you want SLIP or PPP? SLIP (SLIP only) Want van Jacobson compression? (y,n) [recommended] Yes UNLISTED INFORMATION: Phone/circuit number at TLG site: *** Mailing address (for billing): Company/person if different: Street, etc: 3801 Market Street, Apt #1 City, etc: San Francisco, CA 94131 (Other info required? Add here.) From tomj Tue Jan 25 19:55:09 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA01606; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 19:55:05 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401260355.TAA01606@tlg.org> Subject: Re: My modem is alive? To: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 19:55:04 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401260236.AA15460@everest.com> from "Robert D. Nielsen" at Jan 25, 94 06:36:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 648 Status: O Yes, I had a 9V power cube, so I took it down when I went... it solved the problem. It's also rated at twice the capacity, so likely it'll stay working... it was an extra, from a deceased 2400 baud modem, so you don't owe me anything. work... > It appears that my modem at Cygnus is alive and well. How can this > be? Over a week ago it was pronouced dead (OK, actually the power > supply was pronounced dead). Now it is live and well. Not that I > am complaining or anything, but what happened? Did someone swap > the power supply? > > Cheers, > Robert > -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Jan 25 19:57:33 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA01625; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 19:57:19 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401260357.TAA01625@tlg.org> Subject: Re: TLG form To: tomm@ingres.com Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 19:57:17 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401252057.AA27837@monsterngres.com.ingres.com> from "tomm@ingres.com" at Jan 25, 94 12:57:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1648 Status: O > Here's my completed form. I believe it is right. I couldn't fill out > the TLG phone# since I haven't had it installed yet. And I believe Bes tto hold onto it until you get the line installed and get a number. The form is the database, so I need the info... Just re-send it later. > the gateway address on my end is any arbitrary ip address I chose > (the machine > that has the modem on it, right?) Yes, "1" is a good one to use... ---------------------cut here-------------------------- Your Little Garden POP will be: RGNet, Inc, suite 3075, 444 Market Street, S.F. 94111 Type of circuit you are installing: *** voice-grade You've been assigned 8-bit subnet: 140.174.115 For routing purposes, the address of the Little Garden router/gateway ("next hop") is: 140.174.122.3 *You* tell *us* what the first address is on your end (eg. your SLIP or PPP port that's the gateway to your network): 140.174.115.1 PUBLIC INFORMATION: Company/site name (optional): *** Person/contact name: Tom Markson Voice phone to contact for problems: 415-648-4207 Domain name you'll register: twilight.com person@domain to send mail to: tom@twilight.com TECHNICAL INFORMATION: Do you want SLIP or PPP? SLIP (SLIP only) Want van Jacobson compression? (y,n) [recommended] Yes UNLISTED INFORMATION: Phone/circuit number at TLG site: *** Mailing address (for billing): Company/person if different: Street, etc: 3801 Market Street, Apt #1 City, etc: San Francisco, CA 94131 (Other info required? Add here.) -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Jan 25 20:00:24 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA01649; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 20:00:20 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401260400.UAA01649@tlg.org> Subject: your link is up To: strick@netcom.com, dave@hip-hop.asylum.org, alm@netcom.com Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 20:00:19 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1743 Status: O Your link was just installed, and you should be on-the-air... Your modem should auto-answer, and at that point what you get depends on what we arranged: * Raw SLIP or PPP as soon as "CD" goes true on the modem. When you get the "CONNECT" message from your modem, wait 10 seconds (secret information: "CONNECT" status is *not necessarily simultaneous* on both modems...) start your SLIP or PPP driver, however you do that. You should be able to immediately ping the "next hop" address, as given in your Form. If you cannot do that, DO NOT PROCEED UNTIL YOU CAN. Likely things to check: baud rate to modem correct? [check fixed DTE vs. variable] Default route correct? [Modem TX light should blink every ping] Your interface IP correct [Modem Tx blinks, followed by Rx blink, but no ping packet received] Try TELNET to that same "next hop" address. All you want to see is, do you get the "Login:" prompt. If telnet says "Connected to..." and "Escape character is..." but you SEE NO PROMPT it is very likely yu have COMPRESSION MISMATCH. Try changing your end first. [Ping uses UDP packets, which are never compressed. TELNET opens the connection with UDP, then switches to TCP -- which is compressed, and if incorrect, will fail] IMPORTANT TRIVIA: Even if you connect first time (right), it will take up to 60 full clock seconds for your "up" status to ripple throughout the TLG network. In other words, once you connect, ping, telnet etc, and you can't talk to the outside world, don't panic -- wait a minute or two. If it persists double check your routing [try traceroute, make sure it goes out a reasonable path] before complaining. Congratulations! -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From bp@xaostools.com Tue Jan 25 20:08:37 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA01704; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 20:08:27 -0800 From: bp@xaostools.com Received: from uucp6.netcom.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA09632; Tue, 25 Jan 94 20:09:16 -0800 Received: from xaostools.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.4/SMI-4.1) id UAA06207; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 20:02:40 -0800 Received: from arrfur.xaostools.com by barky.xaostools.com via SMTP (931110.SGI/111793.forwarder.mykle) for @netcomsv:info@tlg.org id AA06505; Tue, 25 Jan 94 19:51:00 -0800 Received: by arrfur.xaostools.com (920330.SGI/111793.generic.mykle) for @barky.xaostools.com:info@tlg.org id AA16313; Tue, 25 Jan 94 19:48:32 -0800 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 19:48:32 -0800 Message-Id: <9401260348.AA16313@arrfur.xaostools.com> To: info@tlg.org Subject: send info Status: O send info =============================================================== Bob Powell bp@xaostools.com In an Austrian hotel catering to skiers: Not to perambulate the corridors in the hours of repose in the boots of ascension. =============================================================== From nbn-request@moon.nbn.com Tue Jan 25 20:41:30 1994 Received: from moon.nbn.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA01767; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 20:41:28 -0800 Received: from localhost (jh@localhost) by moon.nbn.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) id UAA09074; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 20:35:38 -0800 From: jh@moon.nbn.com (John Harkin) Message-Id: <9401252035.ZM9072@moon.nbn.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 20:35:34 -0800 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (2.1.0 10/27/92) To: nbn-admin@moon.nbn.com, nbn-alert@moon.nbn.com Subject: power outage Thur. 1/27/94 Status: O PG&E is planning on doing some construction on the electric power lines in the area around the NBN office on Thursday, 1/27/94 from 8 AM to 4 PM. When power is off, the NBN news and mail server will be off-line. UUCP services will also be unavailable. The terminal server and name server at the Terra Linda hub will still be available, so Internet access will not be affected. Weather conditions may cause this outage to be rescheduled. John -- John Harkin +1 415 472-1600 moon!jh jh@nbn.com postmaster@nbn.com North Bay Network - Direct Connect Internet for the North Bay From tomj@fido.wps.com Tue Jan 25 23:08:21 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id XAA01993; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 23:08:13 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA10155; Tue, 25 Jan 94 23:09:06 -0800 Received: from kumr.lns.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA10030; Tue, 25 Jan 94 22:36:36 -0800 Received: by kumr.lns.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.3) id ; Tue, 25 Jan 94 22:36 PST Message-Id: Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 22:36 PST From: pozar@kumr.lns.com (Tim Pozar) To: tomj@fido.wps.com Subject: (fwd) Microcom 28.8k modems Newsgroups: alt.bbs,comp.dcom.modems Organization: Late Night Software (San Francisco) Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O Xref: kumr alt.bbs:24362 comp.dcom.modems:51189 Path: kumr!toad.com!pacbell.com!sgiblab!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!spcuna!spcvxb!ritz!ritz Newsgroups: alt.bbs,comp.dcom.modems Subject: Microcom 28.8k modems Message-ID: From: ritz@ritz.mordor.com (Chris Mauritz) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 02:07:11 GMT Organization: Mordor International BBS X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] Lines: 31 I got a mail spool full of requests for further info on these modems and the sysop pricing. I've found my info sheet. Here goes: Microcom Inc. 500 River Ridge Drive Norwood, MA 02062 (800)822-8224 (617)551-1000 (617)551-1021 fax The sysop prices are: $249 each for the first pair $289 each for the rest Availability: They've got them and will ship them out overnight or 2nd day air for a nominal charge. Chipset: The same Rockwell V.FC chipset used by Hayes and Zoom. I had very good luck dealing with Roy at x.975. Best regards, Christopher Mauritz -- Christopher Mauritz | Ask me about public access unix ritz@mordor.com | and interactive internet services. Mordor International BBS | BBS: (201)432-0060 8-N-1 Jersey City, NJ | FAX: (201)433-4222 -- Internet: pozar@kumr.lns.com Snail: Tim Pozar / KKSF / 77 Maiden Lane / San Francisco CA 94108 / USA POTS: +1 415 788 2022 Radio: KC6GNJ / KAE6247 From strick@versant.com Tue Jan 25 23:08:59 1994 Received: from versant.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id XAA01998; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 23:08:57 -0800 Received: from osc.com (osc.versant.com) by versant.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08022; Tue, 25 Jan 94 23:13:13 PST Received: by osc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11928; Tue, 25 Jan 94 23:12:04 PST Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 23:12:04 PST From: strick@versant.com (henry strickland -- strick@osc.versant.com) Message-Id: <9401260712.AA11928@osc.com> To: tomj@fnord.tlg.org Subject: no answer Cc: admin@fnord.tlg.org Status: O Tom, I'm getting no answer on my phone line "415 961 5715" at Cygnus. It's 11pm on Tuesday night. I checked the phone number with the letter from the phone company; it should be right. Any ideas? thanks, strick From tomj Wed Jan 26 13:20:50 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA02549; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 13:20:43 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401262120.NAA02549@tlg.org> Subject: Re: no answer To: strick@versant.com (henry strickland -- strick@osc.versant.com) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 13:20:42 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401260712.AA11928@osc.com> from "henry strickland -- strick@osc.versant.com" at Jan 25, 94 11:11:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 511 Status: O I've asked someone at Cygnus to power-cycle it. The router shows it in some funny state, and I can't reset it. I tested it only so far as to see it answered the phone before I left. It did. > > Tom, I'm getting no answer on my phone line "415 961 5715" at Cygnus. > It's 11pm on Tuesday night. I checked the phone number with > the letter from the phone company; it should be right. > > Any ideas? > > thanks, strick > -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Wed Jan 26 13:36:12 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA02573; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 13:36:08 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401262136.NAA02573@tlg.org> Subject: Re: payment To: dave@hip-hop.sbay.org (David L. Black) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 13:36:07 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: from "David L. Black" at Jan 25, 94 11:53:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 849 Status: O > We'd be happy to drop the install fee check by Cygnus or I could mail > it to you. If you want me to wait for the bill, I could do that too. > > If I don't hear from you by say, 2pm Wednesday, I'll send out the > check to the address Tim Pozar gave me. It's actually much easier for me if you mail it in... if you haven't received a bill yet, you should shortly... > We have connectivity, things are working. I'll wait for the bill on the > first three months service. Just as a reminder, we do intend to upgrade > to 28.8 service ($130/mo we were told) when the modems arrive from > Hayes - ordered them about a week ago. Great! Let me know re: the new modems. Billing for th emonethly will start 1 Feb. I'll prorate the month according to what you're using. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From daemon Wed Jan 26 14:51:24 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA00079; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 14:51:23 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 14:51:23 -0800 From: root (Root of all evil) Message-Id: <199401262251.OAA00079@tlg.org> To: admin Subject: tlg.org rebooted on Wed Jan 26 15:15:54 PST 1994 Status: O From admin@tlg.org Wed Jan 26 19:06:33 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA00377; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:06:17 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwapg13403; Wed, 26 Jan 94 22:03:57 -0500 Received: from wsrcc.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17389; Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:03:44 PST Received: by wsrcc.com id AA17370 (5.67a/IDA-1.5-WSR-12/03/93 for private-garden@cygnus.com); Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:03:39 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:03:39 -0800 From: wolfgang@wsrcc.com (Wolfgang Rupprecht) Message-Id: <199401270303.AA17370@wsrcc.com> X-Authentication: unauthenticatable at wsrcc.com To: private-garden@cygnus.com Subject: disturbance Organization: W S Rupprecht Computer Consulting, Fremont CA Status: O Are we having global network problems? We are dropping an awful lot of packets going from tlg to decwrl.dec.com (33% of ping packets). I can't get a uucp over tcp to actually do anything but alarm and time out. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang Rupprecht SF Bay Area: Want a cheap PPP/SLIP internet connection? info@admin.tlg.rg.net From tomj Wed Jan 26 19:24:16 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA00407; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:24:15 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401270324.TAA00407@tlg.org> Subject: form to fill out... To: flesh (Flesh) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:24:14 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1726 Status: O Might as well fill one of these out yourself... you wont get billed of course, but it'll be good to have the info around. Note that I've given you a subnet; I'll handle it. Make up a host name; I'll simply add your site as a host within WPS.COM for now. T H E L I T T L E G A R D E N return this ENTIRE form to: admin@tlg.org (You might want to keep a copy for yourself) Please fill any ***'ed items below (ie. information I don't have) and change any incorrect items, and mail it back to me. Some of it will be posted to a contact list available to little garden members; the rest of it I'll keep private. ---------- Please don't remove anything below this line ---------- Your Little Garden POP will be: RGNet, Inc, suite 3075, 444 Market Street, S.F. 94111 You've been assigned 8-bit subnet: 140.174.116 For routing purposes, the address of the Little Garden router/gateway ("next hop") is: 140.174.122.1 *You* tell *us* what the first address is on your end (eg. your SLIP or PPP port that's the gateway to your network): *** 140.174.116.1 PUBLIC INFORMATION: Company/site name (optional): *** Person/contact name: *** Voice phone to contact for problems: *** Domain name you'll register: *** person@domain to send mail to: *** TECHNICAL INFORMATION: Do you want SLIP or PPP? *** SLIP (SLIP only) Want van Jacobson compression? (y,n) [recommended] *** yes UNLISTED INFORMATION: Phone/circuit number at TLG site: *** 433-3929 Mailing address (for billing): Company/person if different: *** Street, etc: *** City, etc: *** (Other info required? Add here.) *** -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj@fido.wps.com Wed Jan 26 19:25:23 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA00415; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:25:20 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA03147; Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:25:34 -0800 Received: from holonet.net by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA03100; Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:08:47 -0800 Received: from localhost (uucp@localhost) by holonet.net id TAA26615; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:05:32 -0800 Received: from Planet BMUG (FirstClass[14888]) by bmug.org (PostalUnion/UUCP 1.0.8) id AA14888.1092675; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 07:02:20 PST Message-Id: <1994Jan24.230453.1092675@bmug.org> To: tom@wps.com From: Dana_Jones@bmug.org Organization: BMUG, Inc. Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 23:04:53 PST Subject: PPP Account Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O Hi Tom - this note might save you a phone call. I spent 1.5 hours trying to login to my Netcom account last night and I'm fed up. Would having a PPP account at TLG allow me to have another user dial in to my system via another port and share the account. I think not but just wanted to ask. My guess is that it's a one serial port at a time type of deal. Also is the $70 pricing structure still in effect? Latest I heard at the BAIL class was $100 but the BMUG board still has a note from the summer quoting $70. Thanks in advance. From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Jan 26 19:27:07 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA00378; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:06:19 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:06:19 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199401270306.TAA00378@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-cygnus-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 tlg-admin@Sunnyside.COM (Sunnyside)... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA00377; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:06:17 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwapg13403; Wed, 26 Jan 94 22:03:57 -0500 Received: from wsrcc.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17389; Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:03:44 PST Received: by wsrcc.com id AA17370 (5.67a/IDA-1.5-WSR-12/03/93 for private-garden@cygnus.com); Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:03:39 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:03:39 -0800 From: wolfgang@wsrcc.com (Wolfgang Rupprecht) Message-Id: <199401270303.AA17370@wsrcc.com> X-Authentication: unauthenticatable at wsrcc.com To: private-garden@cygnus.com Subject: disturbance Organization: W S Rupprecht Computer Consulting, Fremont CA Are we having global network problems? We are dropping an awful lot of packets going from tlg to decwrl.dec.com (33% of ping packets). I can't get a uucp over tcp to actually do anything but alarm and time out. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang Rupprecht SF Bay Area: Want a cheap PPP/SLIP internet connection? info@admin.tlg.rg.net From admin@tlg.org Wed Jan 26 19:33:45 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA00424; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:33:42 -0800 From: rogerk@queernet.org Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwapi03524; Wed, 26 Jan 94 22:33:53 -0500 Received: from inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17755; Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:33:51 PST Received: from unpc.queernet.org by inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com (5.65/13Jan94) id AA20997; Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:22:13 -0800 Received: by unpc.queernet.org (Smail3.1.28.1 #10) id m0pPNKb-000MWFC; Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:23 PST Message-Id: To: private-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Re: disturbance In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:03:39 -0800. <199401270303.AA17370@wsrcc.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:23:43 PST Status: O > Are we having global network problems? We are dropping an awful lot > of packets going from tlg to decwrl.dec.com (33% of ping packets). I > can't get a uucp over tcp to actually do anything but alarm and time > out. > > -wolfgang The lossage seems to be *only* between us and AlterNet... --- ROGER B.A. KLORESE rogerk@QueerNet.ORG 2215-R Market Street #576 San Francisco, CA 94114 +1 415 ALL-ARFF "There is only one real blasphemy: the refusal of joy." -- Paul Rudnick From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Jan 26 19:49:06 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA00425; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:33:43 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:33:43 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199401270333.TAA00425@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-cygnus-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 tlg-admin@Sunnyside.COM (Sunnyside)... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA00424; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:33:42 -0800 From: rogerk@queernet.org Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwapi03524; Wed, 26 Jan 94 22:33:53 -0500 Received: from inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17755; Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:33:51 PST Received: from unpc.queernet.org by inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com (5.65/13Jan94) id AA20997; Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:22:13 -0800 Received: by unpc.queernet.org (Smail3.1.28.1 #10) id m0pPNKb-000MWFC; Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:23 PST Message-Id: To: private-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Re: disturbance In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:03:39 -0800. <199401270303.AA17370@wsrcc.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:23:43 PST > Are we having global network problems? We are dropping an awful lot > of packets going from tlg to decwrl.dec.com (33% of ping packets). I > can't get a uucp over tcp to actually do anything but alarm and time > out. > > -wolfgang The lossage seems to be *only* between us and AlterNet... --- ROGER B.A. KLORESE rogerk@QueerNet.ORG 2215-R Market Street #576 San Francisco, CA 94114 +1 415 ALL-ARFF "There is only one real blasphemy: the refusal of joy." -- Paul Rudnick From mdurkin@wiretap.Spies.COM Wed Jan 26 20:14:40 1994 Received: from wiretap.Spies.COM by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA00475; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 20:14:38 -0800 Received: by wiretap.Spies.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12550; Wed, 26 Jan 94 20:14:58 PST Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 20:14:58 PST From: mdurkin@wiretap.spies.com (Mike Durkin) Message-Id: <9401270414.AA12550@wiretap.Spies.COM> To: admin@tlg.org Subject: addendum Cc: wolfgang@wsrcc.com Status: O I should say the link between sl-stk-1-S15-T1.sprintlink.net and the router before it looks to me like it in the traceroute I sent. Maybe someone could confirm that from within TLG. Mike From admin@tlg.org Wed Jan 26 20:18:48 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA00481; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 20:18:28 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwapl00837; Wed, 26 Jan 94 23:18:23 -0500 Received: from hp.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18243; Wed, 26 Jan 94 20:18:18 PST Received: from hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com by hp.com with SMTP (1.36.108.7/15.5+IOS 3.13) id AA11422; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 20:18:17 -0800 Received: by hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com (1.37.187.4/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA27336; Wed, 26 Jan 94 20:14:03 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 20:14:03 -0800 From: "William S. Kaster" Message-Id: <9401270414.AA27336@hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com> To: private-garden@cygnus.com Subject: This sucks. 68% packet loss. Status: O This is getting annoying. I'm seeing hangs of up to 2 minutes again. I guess the 814 folks are using their ethernet. Sigh. Maybe I should look into moving to 814. :-( Here is some sample output from a ping command. Ugly. -Bill -- meridian:/usr/adm$ ping opus PING opus.chem.psu.edu (128.118.30.98): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=2 ttl=248 time=339 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=5 ttl=251 time=321 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=6 ttl=252 time=306 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=10 ttl=0 time=329 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=14 ttl=4 time=295 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=15 ttl=5 time=298 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=22 ttl=12 time=596 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=23 ttl=13 time=304 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=30 ttl=20 time=315 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=35 ttl=25 time=315 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=37 ttl=27 time=324 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=38 ttl=28 time=297 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=39 ttl=29 time=324 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=42 ttl=32 time=411 ms --- opus.chem.psu.edu ping statistics --- 46 packets transmitted, 14 packets received, 69% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max = 295/341/596 ms From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Jan 26 20:37:48 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA00482; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 20:18:45 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 20:18:45 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199401270418.UAA00482@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-cygnus-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 tlg-admin@Sunnyside.COM (Sunnyside)... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA00481; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 20:18:28 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwapl00837; Wed, 26 Jan 94 23:18:23 -0500 Received: from hp.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18243; Wed, 26 Jan 94 20:18:18 PST Received: from hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com by hp.com with SMTP (1.36.108.7/15.5+IOS 3.13) id AA11422; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 20:18:17 -0800 Received: by hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com (1.37.187.4/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA27336; Wed, 26 Jan 94 20:14:03 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 20:14:03 -0800 From: "William S. Kaster" Message-Id: <9401270414.AA27336@hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com> To: private-garden@cygnus.com Subject: This sucks. 68% packet loss. This is getting annoying. I'm seeing hangs of up to 2 minutes again. I guess the 814 folks are using their ethernet. Sigh. Maybe I should look into moving to 814. :-( Here is some sample output from a ping command. Ugly. -Bill -- meridian:/usr/adm$ ping opus PING opus.chem.psu.edu (128.118.30.98): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=2 ttl=248 time=339 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=5 ttl=251 time=321 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=6 ttl=252 time=306 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=10 ttl=0 time=329 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=14 ttl=4 time=295 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=15 ttl=5 time=298 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=22 ttl=12 time=596 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=23 ttl=13 time=304 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=30 ttl=20 time=315 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=35 ttl=25 time=315 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=37 ttl=27 time=324 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=38 ttl=28 time=297 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=39 ttl=29 time=324 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=42 ttl=32 time=411 ms --- opus.chem.psu.edu ping statistics --- 46 packets transmitted, 14 packets received, 69% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max = 295/341/596 ms From mdurkin@wiretap.Spies.COM Wed Jan 26 20:48:33 1994 Received: from wiretap.Spies.COM by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA00510; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 20:48:32 -0800 Received: by wiretap.Spies.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12442; Wed, 26 Jan 94 20:10:57 PST Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 20:10:57 PST From: mdurkin@wiretap.Spies.COM (Mike Durkin) Message-Id: <9401270410.AA12442@wiretap.Spies.COM> To: admin@tlg.org Subject: wolfgang's trouble report Cc: wolfgang@wsrcc.com Status: O I've seen the same problem that Wolfgang mentions... lots of packet loss. I've noticed it mainly around TV primetime the past few days (maybe Neilson uses the net now?) and traceroute/pings say sl-stk-1-S15-T1.sprintlink.net might be it, at least from outside TLG. Attached is a traceroute through that @#!$ when it works ok. BTW, it seems to be off and on; drops a lot for a few minutes then clears up for a few minutes too infinity. At least it's probably sprint's fault :) Mike --- snip --- traceroute to tsoft.net (140.174.87.1), 121 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 torii.apple.com (130.43.43.1) 3 ms 4 ms 4 ms 2 typhoon.apple.com (130.43.9.1) 3 ms 3 ms 51 ms 3 SU-CM.BARRNET.NET (131.119.78.17) 8 ms 20 ms 21 ms 4 fd-0.enss128.t3.ans.net (192.31.48.244) 20 ms 5 ms 4 ms 5 t3-0.San-Francisco-cnss9.t3.ans.net (140.222.9.1) 7 ms 7 ms 30 ms 6 t3-0.enss144.t3.ans.net (140.222.144.1) 12 ms 18 ms 6 ms 7 FIX-W.ICM.NET (192.52.195.16) 11 ms 16 ms 9 ms 8 sl-stk-1-S15-T1.sprintlink.net (144.228.1.161) 75 ms 103 ms 106 ms 9 sl-stk-3-F0.sprintlink.net (144.228.8.231) 15 ms 23 ms 14 ms 10 gw-sf-sprint.tlg.rg.net (140.174.122.1) 23 ms 18 ms 42 ms 11 gw-sf-mv.tlg.rg.net (140.174.122.5) 61 ms 41 ms 42 ms 12 gw-mv2-eth2.cygnus.com (140.174.4.2) 34 ms 53 ms 31 ms 13 gw-mv-eth2.cygnus.com (140.174.4.1) 29 ms 32 ms 29 ms 14 gw-pa-eth.cygnus.com (140.174.23.253) 63 ms 58 ms 62 ms 15 nos1.cygnus.com (140.174.23.13) 74 ms 62 ms 85 ms 16 skipper.tsoft.net (140.174.85.130) 318 ms 269 ms 245 ms 17 gilligan.tsoft.net (140.174.87.1) 358 ms 276 ms 289 ms From gnu@toad.com Wed Jan 26 21:55:45 1994 Received: from toad.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id VAA00592; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 21:55:38 -0800 From: gnu@toad.com Received: from localhost by toad.com id AA28987; Wed, 26 Jan 94 21:55:42 PST Message-Id: <9401270555.AA28987@toad.com> To: strata@fenchurch.mit.edu, gnu@toad.com Cc: admin@tlg.org Subject: Moving Toad's 56K line to Sunnyvale? Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 21:55:41 -0800 X-Status: Status: O Strata, due to some rearranging of the Toad Hall feed, we may be able to get you a 56K feed for cheaper than we expected, if we do it quickly. Normally a 56K line costs $2000 to install -- $1000 per end. Moving one end of a 56K line only costs $600 though, no matter where you move it to. (The new monthly cost will depend on the distance between the two new endpoints, of course.) Toad Hall has been fed with a 56K line from Cygnus in Mt. View, since our main T1 from Alternet used to come from Mt. View. Since rearranging our main T1 to come from SF, we have laid in a wire to feed Toad Hall from 444 Market St, saving about $200/mo, but haven't hooked it up yet for lack of a DSU. It's a new leased line, rather than just moving one end of the old one, because we bought it through Metro Fiber rather than Pac Bell and they gave us a good installation price (even though Pac Bell actually installed it; I guess MFS buys "in bulk" from PacBell and gets a better price). We'll reroute Toad Hall to the new line within a week or two. Then the question is: what do we do with the old line? We could just cancel it, or we could move the Toad Hall end to Sunnyvale and it could become *your* 56K line. This would save you $1400 over the cost of setting one up from scratch. You'd still need: Move 56K line $600 one-port router for you $1200 (new model -- need details from Tim) TLG startup fee $400 router port at TLG $600 (I think -- Tom?) DSU for your end $200 DSU for TLG end $200 Total...(drum roll).... $3200 The monthly cost would be $325 to TLG, plus whatever the 56K line costs from PacBell. SF<->Mt. View ran about $300/mo, so to Sunnyvale it should be in the $100-150 range, I'd guess. Total somewhere under $500/mo. If you can handle this, or find a quick way to share it, then you're on! If you want to pay the $278.30/mo for the current leased line for some period of time (to avoid us canceling it while you think about what to do), that's fine too. Let us know! Tom, Tim: Is there anybody else that wants 56K service in the South Bay, if Strata doesn't? John From consensus@netcom.com Wed Jan 26 21:58:29 1994 Received: from mail.netcom.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id VAA00618; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 21:58:22 -0800 Received: from [17.255.3.247] by mail.netcom.com (8.6.4/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id VAA17055; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 21:59:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199401270559.VAA17055@mail.netcom.com> X-Sender: consens@netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 21:58:41 -0800 To: info@admin.tlg.rg.net From: consensus@netcom.com (Christopher Allen) Subject: Info on Little Garden X-Status: Status: OR I received some older information on Little Garden -- can you update me? I'm wanting to set up either a SW56 or low-volume T1 to the internet. Also, as I am also located in San Francisco, can you give me an idea what district of town your site is? Thanks! ..Christopher Allen ..Consensus Develoment Corporation ..4104-24th Street #419 ..San Francisco, CA 94114-3615 ..(415) 647-6384 Fax ..(415) 647-6383 Voice ..email: consensus@netcom.com ..mosaic frontpage: .."ftp://netcom.com/pub/consensus/www/ConsensusFrontDoor.html" From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Jan 26 22:15:45 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id WAA00635; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 22:05:15 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 22:05:15 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199401270605.WAA00635@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org X-Status: Status: OR ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-cygnus-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 tlg-admin@Sunnyside.COM (Sunnyside)... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id WAA00634; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 22:05:14 -0800 From: gnu@toad.com Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwaps00254; Thu, 27 Jan 94 01:05:32 -0500 Received: from toad.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19685; Wed, 26 Jan 94 22:05:29 PST Received: from localhost by toad.com id AA29296; Wed, 26 Jan 94 22:05:20 PST Message-Id: <9401270605.AA29296@toad.com> To: "William S. Kaster" Cc: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Re: This sucks. 68% packet loss. [How to diagnose it!] In-Reply-To: <9401270414.AA27336@hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 22:05:18 -0800 When this happens, try running a traceroute and seeing which is the first router at which you see packet drops. When I did this for the "decwrl" ping, it showed: traceroute to decwrl.dec.com (16.1.0.1), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 gw-mv-eth1.cygnus.com (140.174.1.4) 3 ms 2 ms 2 ms 2 gw-mv2-eth2.cygnus.com (140.174.4.2) 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms 3 gw-marin-sf.tlg.rg.net (140.174.123.2) 8 ms 8 ms 7 ms 4 gw-sf-sprint.tlg.rg.net (140.174.122.1) 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms 5 sl-stk-3-S2-T1.sprintlink.net (144.228.200.33) 18 ms 16 ms 16 ms 6 sl-stk-1-F0.sprintlink.net (144.228.8.225) 74 ms 8 sl-dc-2-F0.sprintlink.net (144.228.1.35) 74 ms 80 ms 76 ms 9 Washington.DC.ALTER.NET (192.41.177.248) 82 ms 75 ms 77 ms 10 San-Jose3.CA.ALTER.NET (137.39.128.10) 144 ms 154 ms 146 ms 11 Palo-Alto1.CA.ALTER.NET (137.39.101.130) 145 ms * * 12 * decwrl.dec.com (16.1.0.1) 90 ms * The problem seems to be between San-Jose3 and Palo-Alto1. (Any site beyond the first one that drops packets will also look lossy...) You didn't give the name or IP address of where you were pinging *from*, so I couldn't try tracing from Cygnus to each end to see where I noticed loss. I didn't see any problem on the opus end, though. John From lee@bio.com Wed Jan 26 23:05:58 1994 Received: from brnet.bio.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id XAA00843; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 23:05:51 -0800 From: Lee Jensen To: info@tlg.org Subject: I need more bandwidth X-Mailer: ScoMail 1.0 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 23:03:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <9401262303.aa13429@brnet.bio.com> X-Status: Status: OR I am sending this in my continuing attempt to get some information about getting a higher speed connection. ========================================================= Lee Jensen, PhD VITADATA | Voice: (510) 237-6113 614 Commodore Drive | Fax: (510) 237-6083 Richmond, CA 94804 | Internet: lee@bio.com From jwisdom@umcc.umich.edu Thu Jan 27 00:05:52 1994 Received: from umcc.umich.edu by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id AAA00934; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 00:05:45 -0800 Received: by umcc.umich.edu (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.6) id ; Thu, 27 Jan 94 03:06 EST Message-Id: From: jwisdom@umcc.umich.edu (Joseph Wisdom) Subject: send info To: info@tlg.org Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 03:06:05 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1 X-Status: Status: OR From strata@fenchurch.MIT.EDU Thu Jan 27 11:37:19 1994 Received: from fenchurch.MIT.EDU by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id LAA01536; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 11:37:16 -0800 Received: from localhost by fenchurch.MIT.EDU id OAA18167; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 14:36:15 -0500 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 14:36:13 EST From: "M. Strata Rose" Reply-To: strata@fenchurch.MIT.EDU To: gnu@toad.com Cc: admin@tlg.org Subject: Re: Moving Toad's 56K line to Sunnyvale? In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 26 Jan 94 21:55:41 -0800 Message-ID: X-Status: Status: OR Yike! Let me think (quickly) about this.... What monies would need to be paid out immediately? Surely not the full $3200, since various of it comes from equipment that would need to be bought and so on. If it's just the $600 to move the line and then the cost of the line per month, without having to activate it until after Feb1st sometime, then sure, I'm on. Where do I send my $600? Actually bringing up the network will lag a bit, since I just sent a big chunk-o-cash off to the IRS. But I can spring the move cost and the monthly right now. I presume that if there are more members down here we'd have the option of converting to a POP with the usual TLG POP rules (TLG pays leased line, we pay $325, get $10 kickback per SLIP account, etc)? Can we get preliminary figures on the monthly line cost from PacBell, given we're telling them where to move the end to? I gave out a bunch of TLG cards at the VerGE meeting last night, some to folks based in SantaCruz and down here. This works out really well.... let's do it! _Strata M. Strata Rose Unix & Network Consultant, SysAdmin & Internet Information Virtual City Network (tm) strata@virtual.net | strata@hybrid.com | strata@fenchurch.mit.edu From lkj@crl.com Thu Jan 27 12:02:20 1994 Received: from crl.crl.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA01571; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 12:02:14 -0800 Received: by crl.crl.com id AA03684 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for info@tlg.org); Thu, 27 Jan 1994 12:02:40 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 12:01:39 -0800 (PST) From: Alfredo Lusa Subject: Send info please To: info@tlg.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Status: Status: OR info hopefully this message will reach a reflector, otherwise, thank you and sorry for the abruptness. Alfredo Lusa Internet Access: lkj@crl.com 1550 California Street, Suite 6188 San Francisco, CA 94109 U.S.A. VOICE: 415-552-0538 FAX: 415-552-9643 From craig@veritas.com Thu Jan 27 16:33:39 1994 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id QAA02149; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 16:33:35 -0800 Received: from athena.veritas.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwaso11936; Thu, 27 Jan 94 19:33:47 -0500 Received: from mobius.veritas.com by athena.veritas.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.0 #2) id m0pPh9C-000AzTC; Thu, 27 Jan 94 16:33 PST Received: by mobius.veritas.com (Smail3.1.29.0 #2) id m0pPh7e-0001pxC; Thu, 27 Jan 94 16:31 PST Message-Id: From: craig@veritas.com (Craig Harmer) Subject: Re: send signup form To: tomj@fnord.tlg.org (Tom Jennings) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 16:31:40 PST Cc: craig@veritas.com, admin@fnord.tlg.org In-Reply-To: <199401280014.QAA02086@tlg.org>; from "Tom Jennings" at Jan 27, 94 4:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] X-Status: Status: OR > Message-Id: <199401280014.QAA02086@tlg.org> > Subject: Re: send signup form > To: craig@veritas.com (Craig Harmer) > Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 16:14:44 -0800 (PST) > Cc: admin@fnord.tlg.org > > could you send me a signup form for your V.32bis service? i think > > i'm ready to sign up. > > > > also, i'd appreciate the phone and/or email address for john gilmore. > > he lives 1 block away, and i anticpate i'll be connecting to his > > house (toad hall). we were discussing alternative connection > > strategies. > > Let's discuss a few details first! sure! > Unless you've made some personal arrangement with Gilmore, we're using > phoen lines exclusively for TLG ocnnections. If you have already > researched other method, such as spread spectrum radio, and are aware of > prices, limitations, etc let me know. > > The Clayton St. POP is rather heavily loaded; we're putting all new > connections into 444 Market St, our main POP. It's directly on the T1 > ther so performancwe is better too. john and were discussing running a straight copper wire between our places. of course this is very attractive, since it avoids a 250 ms lag through the modems, and saves me $30/month. on the other hand, i want to be sure to stay within the letter of the law. of couse, i'm now in a big hurry to get this done, so i thought i'd start with a phone connection (simplest setup) and then investigate other options when time permits. it seemed like it would be simpler to stay with one location then to try and switch from downtown to clayton street, if that became possible. will changing to another option cost me another $250 setup fee? how about just changing to another modem? the most obvious change i can envision making is swapping out the worldblazer for a Zyxel modem--the WB is a rather expensive V.32bis modem. if that's a big hassle, perhaps i should go out and buy another modem now. what's your favorite V.32bis modem to talk to a worldblazer? > General questions: Do you ahve a host machine with the necessary support > software? Etc.... i think so, yes. i've got a pair of telebit worldblazer modems, and i've just scavenged up a 386 machine to run ka9q nos. i've been playing with nos, and just got it to talk to my local network through the ethernet; i haven't tried to make phone connections yet. if nos works as advertised, then it should be a fine (reliable) router for me. if anyone has any experience working with nos that they can share, i'd appreciate it. the version i snarfed is off the infomagic CD. > If you haven;'t already, read the files on ftp.tlg.org, especially > START-HERE. They cover the basics. (I'm reading mail sequentially here > so I might come upon subsequent mail youve' sent us.. apoligies ahead > of time!) after my initial email, i went and investigated the ftp files, and think i have an understanding of the process. thanks to them i found ka9q nos (which i hadn't heard of before), and got the beginnings of a router setup. i think everything is ready to go on my end. i'm guessing that you're quite busy after "advertising" as Usenix, and are therefore slow in getting back to me. is 3-5 days the typical response time to requests? > -- > The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org thanks very much, craig. -- {apple,amdahl}!veritas!craig craig@veritas.com (415) 668-3564 (h) (408) 727-1222 x220 (w) [views expressed above aren't Veritas' views, nor should they be mistaken for the views of any responsible person.] From tomj Thu Jan 27 17:29:57 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id RAA02238; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 17:29:56 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401280129.RAA02238@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Modem Recommendations To: siress@bali (Tony Siress) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 17:29:54 -0800 (PST) Cc: pozar (Tim Pozar), admin In-Reply-To: <9401251756.AA00897@bali.tidalwave.com> from "Tony Siress" at Jan 25, 94 09:56:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2554 X-Status: Status: O > I spoke to Tim Pozer and he told me that you could recommend modems > for the Tidalwave Slip Connection to the 210 Clayton location. Lowest cost: US Robotics Sportsters. Approx. $170/ea at Fry's. High performance: ZyXEL U-1496, 16,800 and 19,200 "Plus" series, approx. $300 each. US Robotics Courier are excellent. DO NOT USE Supras, about 75% of the ones in TLG have failed; also avoid Zoom, Boca, and other off-brands. telebits are extremely reliable, but very expensive, and performance is nto as good as ZyXEL or USR (they are 1985 technology) > I have started the process of installing the phone lines. I am having > a check cut but do not know where to send it. Please let me know > which modems are best. I DTE support up to 38400bps. So If I attach > 14.4 modems with V.42bis I should be able to use up to 56kb? Enclosed is a form to fill out... it provides you with your IP address subnet, and when you fill it out, prtovides us with contact info etc. Also please read the documentation available from ftp: ftp.tlg.org. If you can't FTP, let me knopw, I'll gladly mail them! T H E L I T T L E G A R D E N return this ENTIRE form to: admin@tlg.org (You might want to keep a copy for yourself) Please fill any ***'ed items below (ie. information I don't have) and change any incorrect items, and mail it back to me. Some of it will be posted to a contact list available to little garden members; the rest of it I'll keep private. ---------- Please don't remove anything below this line ---------- Your Little Garden POP will be: 210 Clayton, SF 94107 Type of circuit you are installing: *** voice-grade You've been assigned 8-bit subnet: 140.174.117 For routing purposes, the address of the Little Garden router/gateway ("next hop") is: 140.174.2.27 *You* tell *us* what the first address is on your end (eg. your SLIP or PPP port that's the gateway to your network): *** PUBLIC INFORMATION: Company/site name (optional): *** Person/contact name: *** Voice phone to contact for problems: *** Domain name you'll register: *** person@domain to send mail to: *** TECHNICAL INFORMATION: Do you want SLIP or PPP? *** (SLIP only) Want van Jacobson compression? (y,n) [recommended] *** UNLISTED INFORMATION: Phone/circuit number at TLG site: *** Mailing address (for billing): Company/person if different: *** Street, etc: *** City, etc: *** (Other info required? Add here.) *** -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Thu Jan 27 17:36:08 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id RAA02278; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 17:35:52 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401280135.RAA02278@tlg.org> Subject: Re: More on xenon's net connection .... To: paul@taniwha.com (Paul Campbell) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 17:35:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin, gnu@cygnus.com, grossman@cygnus.com In-Reply-To: <9401252006.AA13305@taniwha.com> from "Paul Campbell" at Jan 25, 94 11:53:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1862 X-Status: Status: O > plus the cost of a port on a portmaster .... my boss wants to know > how much this will be? We're using Livingston IRX routers for synchronous... Our one-time charge for the synchronous port at the POP is $750. This covers the cost of hardware plus installation etc. So the total is: Labor $400 Port $750 ------ $1150 YOur twisted-pair solution sounds good! What sort of drivers are you expecting to use? > I'm just mailing you to keep you up to date with where we are .... we're > still moving forward, our local net is up and running, we have a portmaster, > a Sun as a mail/dns server, pop/eudora running on it, all that good stuff ... > we're still waiting on the connection to Cygnus ... what we have decided > to do is to get the building management to put a 20ft trench in out the > back of us so we can use an existing unused cable to the building that Cygnus > is in. This should go in in about a week, we'll be installing 2 pair of > twisted pair and use line drivers at each end running at 56k asynch (since the > portmasters can't run synchronously). The wires should be going between the > wiring closets in the two buildings. > > >From the mail you had previously sent me you said that we would be paying: > > 56K SERVICE PRICES: > One-time installation fee (non-refundable) . . . . . . $400. > Monthly connection fee . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $325. > > plus the cost of a port on a portmaster .... my boss wants to know > how much this will be? > > Hopefully we'll be able to schedule some time with you in about 2 weeks > to do the final hookup. > > Again I can be reached at Xenon (Mon, Wed, Thu) at (415)254-5805 and > at home (Tue, Fri-Sun) (510)540-5557. > > Paul Campbell > Xenon > > > -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Thu Jan 27 17:40:11 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id RAA02315; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 17:40:06 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401280140.RAA02315@tlg.org> Subject: Re: The Little Garden -- Internet connectivity To: raburg@well.sf.ca.us (Richard Burg) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 17:40:05 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <199401252100.NAA28346@well.sf.ca.us> from "Richard Burg" at Jan 25, 94 01:01:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 400 X-Status: Status: O > I gather you do not offer dialup PPP at 14.4? If you mean "dialup" from a shell account, no. What we provide is "raw" IP connectivity. YOu add services, such as telnet, ftp, etc wit thour host computer -- and you can run your own ftp, telnet servers, etc... Netcom I believe offers dialup "shell" type PPP ... -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Thu Jan 27 17:42:55 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id RAA02345; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 17:42:52 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401280142.RAA02345@tlg.org> Subject: Re: My modem is alive? To: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 17:42:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401260522.AA15738@everest.com> from "Robert D. Nielsen" at Jan 25, 94 09:21:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 381 X-Status: Status: O > Allow me to buy you your favorite beverage!! Gladly!! Lucky you, that I had the thing, and found it was extra/unused the night before I went to Cygnus! > P.S. Did you save the old power cube? I would like to send it back to Supra. Yes I still have it. I will find a small box and mail it... -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj@fido.wps.com Thu Jan 27 17:44:15 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id RAA02358; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 17:44:10 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA06408; Thu, 27 Jan 94 17:44:54 -0800 Received: from sys1.unigate1.unisys.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA06383; Thu, 27 Jan 94 17:36:22 -0800 Received: from ctnews2.sj.unisys.com ([129.226.18.12]) by mail.unigate1.unisys.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14543; Fri, 28 Jan 94 01:41:21 GMT Received: from starbase.sj.unisys.com by ctnews2.sj.unisys.com (4.1/SMI-4.1R13) id AA06099; Thu, 27 Jan 94 17:37:41 PST Received: by starbase.sj.unisys.com (4.1/6.8); Thu, 27 Jan 94 17:40:20 PST Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 17:40:16 -0800 (PST) From: Tin Le Subject: TLG sign up To: Tom Jennings Cc: Postmaster@saigon.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com X-Status: Status: O Tom, I would like to get connected to TLG. I have ftp'ed all the relevant text files and read them. My site, Saigon.COM, has 4 phone lines with room for more. I am also interested in becoming a TLG POP. I have a Livingston PM-11 on order. Saigon.COM is at my house, so qualifies for residential rates. I am very familiar with routers, TCP/IP, UNIX, etc. So it would not be a problem to provide help with the technical support workload. Regards, Tin Le ----- Tin Le | comp.binaries.ms-windows Moderator TL Consulting | Send submissions to cbmsw@Saigon.COM Current Office: 408-456-5587 | Requests to cbmsw-request@Saigon.COM tinle@sj.unisys.com | Archive on wuarchive.wustl.edu Or tin@saigon.com | MailServer at mailserv@Saigon.COM From tomj Thu Jan 27 17:51:38 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id RAA02371; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 17:51:36 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401280151.RAA02371@tlg.org> Subject: Re: DNS To: dave@hip-hop.sbay.org (David L. Black) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 17:51:35 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: from "David L. Black" at Jan 25, 94 11:59:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1173 X-Status: Status: O > I already have a domain name arranged for my network. It's hh.sbay.org. > The primary nameserver is running on hip-hop.hh.sbay.org, at > 140.174.113.193. Amdahl.com is one secondary we'll definitely > use, and possibly ati.com. Ati.com is the primary for sbay.org, BTW. > I'm arranging this through the sbay.org domain administrator, > Ian Kluft . Looks good from here! > Do you wish to recommend a secondary or arrange secondary name service > from cygnus.com or another site, on my behalf? I'll gladly setup FNORD.TLG.ORG as secondary. Just give me the word (and return these details corrected if necessary: ; domain authority file to store in ; Contact: dave@hip-hop.sbay.org (David L. Black, KE6AJC) secondary hh.sbay.org 140.174.113.193 secondary/hh.sbay.org If you returnth e above text intact I'll just stick it in my named.boot file) FYI: FNORD.TLG.ORG IN NS 140.174.122.23 > Methinks that once the DNS is done, we'll be fully up and running. COngrats again on a quick bring-up... I wish they all went so well! -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Thu Jan 27 18:00:13 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA02399; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:00:11 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401280200.SAA02399@tlg.org> Subject: Re: latency To: dave@hip-hop.sbay.org (David L. Black) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:00:10 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: from "David L. Black" at Jan 26, 94 00:01:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1144 X-Status: Status: O > I'm seeing somewhat higher latency for the CSLIP connection than I > expected, in the 260ms range, using only MNP4 error correction between > the modems and no compression. The best latency tims I've seen with v.32bis-type modems is 240, 250 using ZyXEL U-1496's. That's 16.8K. LIkely the 19,200 model is slightly better (ssems that the increase is simpyl CPU clock, which likely speeds up processing/latency). I get the following with my ZyXEL U-1496's, with comrepssion *on*: --- 140.174.122.3 ping statistics --- 102 packets transmitted, 102 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max = 168.456/204.590/688.261 ms (140.174.122.3) is my router, ie. the next-hop.) I would assume you'd get this or better... though in my 10 years of pushing modems really hard, and formally testing some (with real BET type testing) I've learned to not be surprised with anything... the two best performers I've personally tested are th ZyXELs and US RObotics Couriers. Likely others are as good. I assume you are testing against your router, 140.174.4.3? -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Thu Jan 27 18:03:32 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA02417; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:03:23 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401280203.SAA02417@tlg.org> Subject: Re: TLG - How do I get connected? To: alm@netcom.com (Andrew Moore) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:03:22 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <199401262047.MAA12838@mail.netcom.com> from "Andrew Moore" at Jan 26, 94 12:46:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1359 X-Status: Status: O > Hi, > I just received the TLG install bill addressed to "Talk Radio". This > is now the second time that "talke.org" has been confused with > Internet's Talk Radio. "talke.org" was a poor choice of names, I > concede. Before I choose another one, I better do my homework on > existing names. I hope this does not create undue hardship. Better > now than after I'm online... MY APOLOGIES!!! I have corrected it here... (Does "Studio Talk" make sense in your context?) > BTW, the name of my fledgling organization is "Talke Studio." We (I) > work with the Computer Recycling Center and other non-profits. One of > our charters is to get non-profits on internet via FreeBSD (free Unix). > If successful, it may provide business for TLG as well. Wish us luck! Hey! Tha'ts something I try to do, but do too slowly. I've put together a few PC XT type machines, with modems and GEOWORKS, and give 'em to smart people who aren't techies. They seem to get on BBSs and the net reasnably well... good luck with it! (It's nice that getting online at least minimally isn't limited by money so much now, as the 'brain trust' part... I have a friend who just went into COmmunity Thrift here in SF, and walked off with an XT type machine for $30, and was BBSing within a week..) -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Thu Jan 27 18:04:57 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA02433; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:04:53 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401280204.SAA02433@tlg.org> Subject: Re: no answer (fwd) To: brian@cygnus.com Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:04:52 -0800 (PST) Cc: strick@netcom.com, admin In-Reply-To: <199401262225.OAA29535@majipoor.cygnus.com> from "Brian R. Smith" at Jan 26, 94 02:25:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 311 X-Status: Status: O DUH! DUH! > DTR wasn't getting to the modem... because was plugged into the > parallel port of the portmaster. I moved it to port S9, and it's > showing DTR now. > -- > brian@cygnus.com THANKS!!! (Sheesh how'd I do dat!) -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Thu Jan 27 18:09:24 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA02460; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:09:17 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401280209.SAA02460@tlg.org> Subject: Re: PPP Account To: Dana_Jones@bmug.org Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:09:16 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <1994Jan24.230453.1092675@bmug.org> from "Dana_Jones@bmug.org" at Jan 24, 94 11:04:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1281 X-Status: Status: O > Would having a PPP account at TLG allow me to have another user dial in to my > system via another port and share the account. I think not but just wanted to > ask. My guess is that it's a one serial port at a time type of deal. You'd dedicate one line to connecting to TLG; however, if you've got the right software,and ports and modems and such, you can hang as many other people on your box as you see fit. For example, my system has a modem to TLG, dedicated. I obviously use the keyboard/display fo rmy use. However, I have an additional modem that I or anyone can dial in on logn etc... It implies that you have host software capable of this; unix, it's a drop in. Mac/PC/etc, not necessarily easy or possible. > Also is the $70 pricing structure still in effect? Latest I heard at the BAIL > class was $100 but the BMUG board still has a note from the summer quoting > $70. The $100 number includes our $70, and estimates of what you'd pay for two phone lines per month... so it's the real-life maximum. BAIL may be starting a monthly class for people who want to connect dorectly to the internet, a how-to rather than the gee-whiz, for people who want more than a "shell account". -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From strick@osc.versant.com Thu Jan 27 18:20:47 1994 Received: from osc.versant.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA02581; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:20:44 -0800 Received: by osc.versant.com (TAZmail-0.0) id AA27802; Thu, 27 Jan 94 18:23:42 PST Message-Id: <9401280223.AA27802@osc.versant.com> Subject: status update To: tomj@fnord.tlg.org (Tom Jennings) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 18:23:40 PST From: "strick -- strick AT versant DOT com -- henry strickland" Cc: strick@osc.versant.com, admin@fnord.tlg.org In-Reply-To: <199401262120.NAA02549@tlg.org>; from "Tom Jennings" at Jan 26, 94 1:20 pm X-Status: Status: O # I've asked someone at Cygnus to power-cycle it. The router shows it in # some funny state, and I can't reset it. I tested it only so far as to # see it answered the phone before I left. It did. okay, it's answering now. And I'm ping *to* it, but my machine is not realizing the response is to it. I've having a hard time teaching it another node number. (I've been PPPing sucessfully into work at versant.com for a month.) I'll work on it some more tonight. This is not yet a plea for help ... I'll get there! thx again, strick From tomj Thu Jan 27 18:23:26 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA02587; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:23:19 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401280223.SAA02587@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Moving Toad's 56K line to Sunnyvale? To: strata@fenchurch.MIT.EDU Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:23:18 -0800 (PST) Cc: gnu@toad.com, admin@tlg.org In-Reply-To: from "M. Strata Rose" at Jan 27, 94 02:35:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 960 X-Status: Status: O > I presume that if there are more > members down here we'd have the option of converting to a POP with the > usual TLG POP rules (TLG pays leased line, we pay $325, get $10 kickback > per SLIP account, etc)? Can we get preliminary figures on the monthly You've broken the chicken/egg problem... It iwll happen -- if you ahve the site and 56K, you will get people to share it. It's nearly impossible it seems to get them *before* you put it together. If you've got the line, and need people to go in on hardware we can send 'em your way. We can discuss details sometime, but a Portmaster with 10 ports is $2000; if you can find a couple of SLIP-type members iwlling to front cash to buy the box you can probably put together a deal. We did that in two TLG POPS! The line, DSU and router is the hard part, once you're close to that running you'll get people to connect. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Thu Jan 27 18:24:12 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA02601; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:24:07 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401280224.SAA02601@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Please send info on Little Garden IP connectivity services To: nitin@sybase.com (Nitin Borwankar) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:24:06 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401272001.AA07406@vash.sybgate.sybase.com> from "Nitin Borwankar" at Jan 27, 94 12:01:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 5057 X-Status: Status: O THE LITTLE GARDEN -- IP SERVICES The Little Garden (TLG) is a buyers club providing Internet connectivity in the greater San Francisco Bay Area. Our prices are the cost of connectivity plus our reasonably low overhead. In exchange for these low prices, we expect members to be somewhat self-sufficient technically. Many members become involved in the operation of TLG, though this is not necessary. We have Points of Presence (POPs) in San Francisco, Mountain View and Palo Alto. We have affiliates in other regions providing similar service. We are working on extending into other areas. TLG provides high-quality, reliable basic IP connectivity via full-time SLIP or PPP, secondary Domain Name Service (DNS), and in some cases, address space. We provide you with the help necessary to get online. We don't provide shell accounts, shared, part-time IP, etc. TLG places no restrictions on content or use of your connection, including reselling, "back door" hosts, etc. You are of course required to comply with any AUPs of any networks you communicate with or through and of course any applicable laws. Compliance with this is the member's responsibility. PRICES: 56K SERVICE PRICES: One-time installation fee (non-refundable) . . . . . . $400. Monthly connection fee . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $325. T1 SERVICE PRICES: One-time installation fee (non-refundable) . . . . . . $500. Monthly connection fee . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $800. Each member must provide their own CSU/DSU pair, and a 56K or T1 capable connection to their system (such as a router). Each member must also provide a standalone router at the TLG end or pay for a fraction of a multi-port router. OTHER HIGH-SPEED SERVICE: We are more than willing to work out fair prices on other types of connections at other speeds, such as 64Kb/s ISDN, 200Kb/s radio, etc. LOW-SPEED DIAL-UP SERVICE PRICES: TLG offers modem-based full-time IP using telephone lines and dialup-type modems. Additional information is provided near the end of this datasheet. Ask for further details. One-time installation fee (non-refundable) . . . . . . $250. Monthly connection fee . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $70. The following list gives estimates of goods and services that the member must cover. (Probable telco one-time installation fees, total . . $70. (Probable monthly telco charges, total . . . . . . . . $21. (Pair of v32bis/v42bis modems, retail . . . . . . . . $400. PAYMENT DETAILS: One-time installation fees, and member-supplied hardware must be provided before TLG initiates the connection. Members are invoiced for monthly connect fees three months at a time. Net 15 days, unless otherwise arranged. Initial billing starts with the first full week following the connection completion, or three weeks from start of the installation, whichever comes latest. POSSIBLE TLG/MEMBER RESOURCE SHARING: Under certain conditions, TLG may be willing to pay for the leased line to the customer's site, and a portion of the connect fee, if TLG can install a new POP at the member's site. Depending on various factors, this could significantly lower the cost to the member for IP services. As more sites are connected to this new POP, the member housing the POP would receive a portion of each additional connection fee, effectively paying for bandwidth used. Contact information: The Little Garden PO Box 410923 San Francisco CA 94141-0923 415-487-1902 info@tlg.org Associated Networks: Santa Cruz -- Santa Cruz Community Internet (scruz-net) 903 Pacific Ave. #203-A Santa Cruz, CA 95060 (408) 457-5050 info@scruz.net Santa Cruz Community Internet serves the entirety of Santa Cruz County, CA. scruz-net offers the following TCP/IP services: o medium speed 56kb and 64kb o leased line and frame relay o ISDN and centrex IS service at 64kb or 128kb o 14.4kb leased line or 14.4kb centrex o 14.4kb dial-up SLIP and PPP scruz-net offers the following application services: o news and mail forwarding o DNS registration and nameservice o FTP archive and gopher server Marin, Sonoma, and Mendocino Counties -- North Bay Network 20 Minor Court San Rafael, CA 94903 (415) 472-1600 Email: info@nbn.com Oregon, southern Washington state -- RAINet 9501 SW Westhaven Portland, OR 97225 (503) 297-8820 admin@rain.com RAINet offers the following TCP/IP services: o medium speed 56kb and 64kb o leased line and frame relay o 14.4kb leased line o 14.4kb dial-up SLIP and PPP RAINet offers the following application services: o news and mail forwarding o DNS registration and nameservice o UNIX shell accounts o POP mail accounts and POP serial dialup o dialup and PPP/SLIP gopher clients When you are in RAINet's geographic area (Oregon and Southern Washington), RAINet offers free access to customers of other RGnet consortium networks, e.g. The Little Garden. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Thu Jan 27 18:25:46 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA02631; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:25:41 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401280225.SAA02631@tlg.org> Subject: Re: TLG form To: tomm@ingres.com Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:25:38 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401272009.AA29231@monsterngres.com.ingres.com> from "tomm@ingres.com" at Jan 27, 94 12:09:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 606 X-Status: Status: O > I've called Pacific Bell and had them install a telephone line. I did > everything according to your instructions and they should be installing > the line tomorrow (Fri, 28th). They have given me the phone > number: 788-7146. > > How should I get the modem to you? Can I drop it off versus send it? Umm, can you returnt he form now with the number etc in it? I don' tha ve ac opy. I can regenerat it if you dont have it either. (I don't know where you are, so I don't know what the best way to get the modem is...) -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Thu Jan 27 18:41:29 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA02675; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:41:25 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401280241.SAA02675@tlg.org> Subject: Re: send signup form To: craig@veritas.com (Craig Harmer) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:41:24 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: from "Craig Harmer" at Jan 27, 94 04:31:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2353 X-Status: Status: O > of couse, i'm now in a big hurry to get this done, so i thought i'd > start with a phone connection (simplest setup) and then investigate > other options when time permits. it seemed like it would be simpler > to stay with one location then to try and switch from downtown to > clayton street, if that became possible. Depends on the schedule -- at the moment, there's no free ports at Toad Hall. If you think you'll actually get the copper installed in less than a month we'll make an effort to free up a port. If not, having your modem into 444 Market won't be a penalty -- on your end you will need to change only one IP address, that of the "next hop" router. And performance is better at 444 since it's on a T1 not a 56K line. > will changing to another option cost me another $250 setup fee? Hmm... no. We'll simply waive it. There is a port on a small host computer at Toad Hall, that you could test with, so you could get it at least mostly woring without breaking your connection or invoking lots of effort from TLG people. It's not suitable for "production" use but it'd be fine for testing, and does SLIP just fine. > how about just changing to another modem? the most obvious change > i can envision making is swapping out the worldblazer for a Zyxel > modem--the WB is a rather expensive V.32bis modem. if that's a big > hassle, perhaps i should go out and buy another modem now. If you plan on joining the Modem of the MOnth Club, we'll charge you a special Fee... :-) No, if you upgrade once, or very occasionally there won't be a problem... > what's your favorite V.32bis modem to talk to a worldblazer? Favorite v.32, or to talk to a World BLazer? The WB will be the weak link, performance-wise... they're fine, solid modems, but high-etch in 1985. Reliability is the issue, and the WB fine there. Get a cheap v.32bis modem, such as US Robotics Sportster, about $170 from Fry's. For pure speed, get a US Robotics Courier, or a ZyXEL U-1496, and there's a 19,200 baud model o that (need a pair then). > are therefore slow in getting back to me. is 3-5 days the typical > response time to requests? I tend to read mail in batches... though this last batch I was slow to get to. Depends on trhe load at th emoment. We're working on this... -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Thu Jan 27 18:46:39 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA02726; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:46:29 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401280246.SAA02726@tlg.org> Subject: Re: DNS To: dave@hh.sbay.org (David L. Black) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:46:29 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: from "David L. Black" at Jan 27, 94 06:07:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 312 X-Status: Status: O > > I'll gladly setup FNORD.TLG.ORG as secondary. Just give me the word (and > > return these details corrected if necessary: Done! Zone transferred OK. > Thanks... we worked many hours on it this week. It shows! Great work! -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Thu Jan 27 18:49:39 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA02747; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:49:36 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401280249.SAA02747@tlg.org> Subject: Re: status update To: strick@osc.versant.com (strick -- strick AT versant DOT com -- henry strickland) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:49:35 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401280223.AA27802@osc.versant.com> from "strick -- strick AT versant DOT com -- henry strickland" at Jan 27, 94 06:23:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 700 X-Status: Status: O > And I'm ping *to* it, but my machine is not realizing the response > is to it. I've having a hard time teaching it another node number. > (I've been PPPing sucessfully into work at versant.com for a month.) > I'll work on it some more tonight. ifconfig sl0 (my inet addr) 140.174.4.3 netmask 255.255.255.255 route add default 140.174.4.3 Should do it... the funny netmask is so the damned ifconfig/router don't conspire to add a route for your subnet to sl0... which it will do (leave netmask 255.255.255.0 and watch it add one!) > This is not yet a plea for help ... I'll get there! If you need it, yell! -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From speacock@netcom.com Thu Jan 27 18:49:53 1994 Received: from netcom8.netcom.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA02755; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:49:44 -0800 Received: from localhost by netcom8.netcom.com (8.6.4/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id SAA14124; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:51:10 -0800 From: speacock@netcom.com (Sean P Peacock) Message-Id: <199401280251.SAA14124@netcom8.netcom.com> Subject: LA area internet access To: info@admin.tlg.rg.net Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:51:08 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1432 X-Status: Status: O I was wondering if there are any tlg type sites in the LA area and/or are you planning to expand any time soon. Below is a PacBell tariff that appears to be a distance insensitive method of getting bandwidth down to my site. I got this from a friend. These cover services that are essentially switched, high-speed data links to the nearest CO. Costs given are per end. For each access link at each location: speed monthly install ADN $50.05 $620 T1 $162.59 $1324 Note: PRICING IS FOR THE LOCAL LOOP ONLY SINCE FRAME RELAY PRICING IS MILEAGE INDEPENDENT. [RLM: Emphasis mine. What this means is that these data services are not, as full-up leased T1 is, dependent on how far you are away from the CO.] Switched data services: speed monthly install 56 Kbps $75 $375 128 Kbps $150 $375 384 Kbps $400 $375 1.536 Mbps $500 $375 For each end of the Permanent Virtual Connection: # of Data Link Monthly Rate per Connection Identifiers DLCI 1st $0 2nd through 6th $15 7th through 11th $10 12th through 250th $5 Each PVC has one Data Link Connection Identifier (DLCI) on each end. For more than one access link from a single location, groupd DLCIs by link, then calculate the charges. There is no recurring charge. For each customer: If traffic detail is wanted, charge $15 per month and $50 for non-recurring. ------------- Thanks in advance SEan From tomj Thu Jan 27 18:50:25 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA02773; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:50:04 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401280250.SAA02773@tlg.org> Subject: Re: My modem is alive? To: rnielsen@pdh.com, rnielsen@everest.com Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:50:03 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401280243.AA16756@snowbird.pdh.com> from "Robert Nielsen" at Jan 27, 94 06:42:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 161 X-Status: Status: O > Do not mail it!! Just leave it a Cygnus next time you go there. Will do! -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Thu Jan 27 18:53:32 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA02801; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:53:31 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401280253.SAA02801@tlg.org> Subject: Thanks! To: flesh (Flesh) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:53:30 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 337 X-Status: Status: O The transcriptions from voicemail are *perfect* -- thanks!!! Fucken perfect... Now as to whwn I follow up on 'em... :-) I might break my own rule and call some tomorrow AM just to get caught up and avoid "I called you last week but I never heard back..." -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj@fido.wps.com Thu Jan 27 18:55:53 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA02813; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:55:49 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA06575; Thu, 27 Jan 94 18:56:35 -0800 Received: from mail.msm.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA03694; Wed, 26 Jan 94 23:00:06 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 22:59:58 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Merrell To: tomj@fido.wps.com Cc: GREG@mail.msm.com, grossman@cygnus.com Message-Id: <940126225958.4b5@mail.msm.com> Subject: Re: Request for two new nets in TLG, etc routing tables Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com X-Status: Status: O Tom, Your point about minimizing work by using Cygnus subnets is appropriate, but it overlooks one issue - portability. The two nets in question are for a tail off of me, and the user has plans to move in 6-12 months. By using his own networks, he can avoid the intricacies of reconfiguring each of his varied systems to new network addresses when that happens. Have you tried to reconfigure a PC when it is using IP based file and print servers? If so, then you wouldn't wish it on someone else. Mac's aren't too bad, and VMS systems are tolerable. He just felt that the extra effort to do it twice wasn't worth it. Now it turns out that because of the router that he has (it doesn't support non-addressable SLIP links), an additional net is needed for the SLIP link from my router to his. Is there any chance of getting a TLG/Cygnus subnet for that one, but still use his two nets downstream from there? I know this sounds a little squirrely, but it seems like the best compromise to me. I'm really open to suggestions as to how it could be done better. Greg PS - I'm sorry if this is a hassle - I didn't mean it to be. From tomj@fido.wps.com Thu Jan 27 18:56:12 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA02818; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:56:08 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA06585; Thu, 27 Jan 94 18:56:54 -0800 Received: from cdp.igc.org by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA03720; Wed, 26 Jan 94 23:10:43 -0800 Received: from localhost by cdp.igc.org (8.6.4/Revision: 1.125 ) id XAA07572; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 23:10:41 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 23:10:41 -0800 From: Steve Follmer Message-Id: <199401270710.XAA07572@cdp.igc.org> To: tomj@wps.com Subject: PPP access Cc: Douglas_M._Trainor@bmug.org, trainor@polyp.barn.com Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com X-Status: Status: O Dear tomj@wps.com I've been using the internet from my mac and I'm hooked. But I need a better interface. So, this is what I'm looking for: I want dial-up PPP access at 14.4 V.32bis. I understand that PPP is better than SLIP. I want access to all the newsgroups. I want it to be a local call from 510-601 prefix. I want to use it 20 hours a month. Can you do this and what are all the costs? I think there may be alot of people like me who don't want to spend $300 and install phone lines just to use it 20 hours a month. Can you accomodate us? Douglas: can barn help me? From tomj@fido.wps.com Thu Jan 27 19:12:52 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA02836; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 19:12:49 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA06715; Thu, 27 Jan 94 19:13:35 -0800 Received: from next.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA04665; Thu, 13 Jan 94 18:50:39 -0800 Received: from tart by femail.NeXT.COM (NX5.67e/NeXT0.1-Aleph (CST $Revision: 1.11 $ $State: Exp $ amm)) id AA26247; Thu, 13 Jan 94 18:50:32 -0800 From: Aaron Morse Message-Id: <9401140250.AA26247@femail.NeXT.COM> Received: by tart.next.com (NX5.67d/NX3.0X ($Revision: 1.10 $ $State: Exp $)) id AA01393; Thu, 13 Jan 94 18:50:27 -0800 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 18:50:27 -0800 Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.99.1) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.99.1) To: tomj@wps.com Subject: Packet Radio Internet Link Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com X-Status: Status: O Tom, I was talking with Robert Nielsen who is a user of The Little Garden. He said you might be interested and able to help me out. Here's the situation. I live on a sailboat, and sometime in the next two to three years I'm going to go sailing around the world. Thing is, I don't want to do it without internet access if it can be avoided. I want my email/usenet/ftp, know what I mean? :-) >From the limited amount I've learned it sounds like packet radio is the way to fly although it will be a slow connection by today's standards - as low as 300 baud, half duplex. Since sailing is a leisurely lifestyle, I can cope with that. So, I need to find out if the information I've gleaned so far is accurate (packet radio being the way to go), proceed to find equipment and an inexpensive way to link it into the internet. It sounds like that is where you might be able to help. Would it be possible for me to locate equipment (radio and PC - probably) at a "Little Garden" location and link into the internet through it? It is possible that others might be interested in a packet radio internet connection as well, so there may be a business case for the service. I'd appreciate any help or suggestions you could provide. Thanks, Aaron Morse, Support Engineer NeXT Computer From tomj@fido.wps.com Thu Jan 27 19:59:16 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA02880; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 19:59:13 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA06895; Thu, 27 Jan 94 20:00:00 -0800 Received: from nic.scruz.net by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA12607; Mon, 17 Jan 94 21:22:08 -0800 Received: by scruz.net (4.1/1.34) id AA06369; Mon, 17 Jan 94 21:21:49 PST Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 21:21:49 PST From: garlick@scruz.net (Tim Garlick) Message-Id: <9401180521.AA06369@scruz.net> To: tomj@wps.com Subject: scruz-net contacts Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com X-Status: Status: O please add me to the contact list for scruz-net, since there are actually three of us doing this:) thanks, -Tim Garlick. garlick@scruz.net From paul@taniwha.com Thu Jan 27 19:59:52 1994 Received: from taniwha.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA02885; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 19:59:47 -0800 Received: from [198.182.167.87] (biko.taniwha.com) by taniwha.com (5.54/25-eef) id AA16239; Thu, 27 Jan 94 20:11:51 PST Message-Id: <9401280411.AA16239@taniwha.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 19:58:26 -0800 To: tomj@fnord.tlg.org (Tom Jennings) From: paul@taniwha.com (Paul Campbell) Subject: Re: More on xenon's net connection .... Cc: admin@fnord.tlg.org, gnu@cygnus.com, grossman@cygnus.com X-Status: Status: O At 5:35 PM 1/27/94 -0800, Tom Jennings wrote: >We're using Livingston IRX routers for synchronous... > >Our one-time charge for the synchronous port at the POP is $750. This >covers the cost of hardware plus installation etc. So the total is: ooops .... I got really confused about this .... and called Livingston trying to find out about whether we need to do sync. or sync. and they called back telling me that the POP at Cygnus had async. 56K connections (ie Portmasters rather than IRXs) - I got the impression that the guy had called them .... so I bought a Portmaster, which only does async. ..... do you have any free portmaster ports (which will do 56k async) down there? (or maybe the async port on the IRX?) Paul From tomj@fido.wps.com Thu Jan 27 20:01:46 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA02902; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 20:01:42 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA06952; Thu, 27 Jan 94 20:02:29 -0800 Received: from rip.psg.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA15613; Tue, 18 Jan 94 13:58:17 -0800 Received: by rip.psg.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0pMOQl-00030KC; Tue, 18 Jan 94 13:57 PST Message-Id: From: randy@psg.com (Randy Bush) Subject: arcane trix with PM 2e (file for refernece) To: tomj@wps.com (Tom Jennings), pinkham@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Chris Pinkham) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 13:57:46 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 837 Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com X-Status: Status: O How to get the Livingston PortMaster 2e/10 to forget the flash memory of its configuration and discover it at boot time: o Connector edge of card is 'up' o jumper - U19 upper right pin - U24 second pin from bottom on right side o net boot (RARP, tftp, and all that stuff) switch-1-[12] up o it should be willing to talk to you on S0 at 9600 o you can remove the jumper now o login as root without password as it has forgotten everything o clear the config flas PortMaster Console login: !root Password: Command> version Livingston Enterprises PortMaster Version 2.4nc Command> set register 0xffff 0x0f02 Successfully formatted FLASH 2 Command> set register 0xffff 0x0f03 Successfully formatted FLASH 3 Command> o reboot with jumper out and with switch-1-2 off randy From tomj@fido.wps.com Thu Jan 27 20:11:17 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA02908; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 20:11:08 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA07067; Thu, 27 Jan 94 20:11:54 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA03255; Thu, 20 Jan 94 17:56:10 -0800 Received: from localhost.cygnus.com (cygnus.com) by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26723; Thu, 20 Jan 94 17:56:07 PST Message-Id: <9401210156.AA26723@cygnus.com> To: tomj@wps.com, gnu@cygnus.com, pozar@kumr.lns.com Subject: Nearnet online ad Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 17:56:07 -0800 From: John Gilmore Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com X-Status: Status: O I wonder if they'd mind if we stole any text (or ideas) from this... Under the Berne Convention, it's copyrighted by them, even if it doesn't say so. John To: "Richard L. Smith" Cc: nearnet-info@nic.near.net Subject: Re: info In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 19 Jan 1994 10:46:50 EST." <9401191546.AA01857@cfr32.cfr.nist.gov> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 12:29:13 -0500 From: Diane Yerardi Attached please find some introductory information on NEARNET including our fee schedule. If you would supply us with your postal address, I could also put a package containing our literature into the mail for you today. Thank you for your interest in NEARNET. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ******************** * NEARNET OVERVIEW * ******************** Using field-proven data communications technology, NEARNET allows network users to: * Exchange electronic mail with any of the millions of Internet users around the world. * Log onto remote computers and access databases, information, and computer resources that are locally available. * Transfer volumes of information quickly and reliably around the world. * Keep abreast of developments in their fields participation in on-line discussion groups. NEARNET provides its members with comprehensive information on how to take advantage of the network's services and resources, through participation in on-line documentation. NEARNET Membership NEARNET offers its member organizations three reliable connection options - Dial-up, Dial-up Plus, and Leased-line. Regardless of the connection option chosen, NEARNET members: * Have access to the Internet. * Participate in building New England's network infrastructure. * Are invited to attend NEARNET Technical and User Seminars. * Participate in NEARNET governance through representative committees. * Have access to a staff of experts through the NEARNET hotline. Network Management and Operations NEARNET is managed by BBN Technology Services Inc., a division of Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc. of Cambridge, Massachusetts. BBN has been an international leader in networking technology since 1969. Professional staff oversee the design, installation, operation, and performance of every NEARNET node. NEARNET is monitored around the clock, 365 days a year, by experienced operators and technicians. Network Constituents More than five thousand organizations and ten million people access the Internet, using the powerful TCP/IP suite of networking protocols for open systems communications. Membership in NEARNET is open to any New England organization that wishes to communicate with others for the purpose of research, education, and innovation. ************************* * THE NEARNET DIFFERENCE * ************************** ROBUST DESIGN NEARNET uses standard, widely available software and hardware with proven performance and reliability. "NEARNET's reliability is not the result of a random choice of components. It is the result of a well-designed architecture. NEARNET's mesh design, coupled with very high speed links in its core, means that failures in individual devices are invisible to network users" Scott Bradner Consultant Harvard University CONSULTING NEARNET's technical staff offer consulting in a variety of areas, including network design, equipment options, available software configuration, the Domain Name System, IP addressing, and network security. "The technical expertise of the NEARNET staff made it possible for us to configure our hardware and connect our sites in a matter of days." Michael Stak Communications Manager Meiko Scientific Corporation TRAINING NEARNET hosts frequent Technical and User Seminars, which include workshops and lectures given by networking experts. Previous seminars have explored network security, Internet resources, and state-of-the-art user interfaces. "The NEARNET seminar was the best seminar I've ever been to. The manual they gave me was invaluable - I don't think that I could have mastered my job as technical liaison without it" Mike Bennett Systems Programmer Suffolk University FLEXIBILITY NEARNET operates at speeds from 9.6Kb/s to 10Mb/s, with connection options that include dial-up, leased lines, and microwave circuits. NEARNET reaches organizations across New England through established points-of-presence in every state. "Vertex joined NEARNET with a 9.6Kb/s dial-up connection, then six months later upgraded to a 56Kb/s dedicated line. The upgrade was flawless and required almost no effort from our staff." Brian Perry Systems Manager Vertex Pharmaceuticals Incorporated NEARNET QUALIFICATIONS The qualifications of your Internet service provider are an important indicator of the quality of the Internet services you will receive as a client. We invite you to examine and assess our qualifications in the context of your Internet service needs. CORPORATE STATUS *NEARNET is owned and operated by Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc. (BBN) *Commercial enterprise *BBN is a $200M public corporation listed on the NYSE *BBN was founded in 1948 CORPORATE NETWORKING EXPERIENCE *More than 25 years designing, building and operating networks, starting with the ARPANET *Have managed many large international networks (including the Defense Data Network, MasterCard, Barclays Bank, etc.) ROLE IN INTERNET DEVELOPMENT *Pioneered development of Internet Protocols *Built first IP router *IETF participant since its inception INTERNETWORKING EXPERIENCE OF ENGINEERING STAFF *BBN staff experience ranges to more than 20 years *NEARNET staff experience averages 7 years AVAILABILITY OF ENGINEERING STAFF *Engineering staff always available at BBN during business hours *Always on-call after business hours *7 dedicated engineering staff members SALES AND MANAGEMENT STAFF QUALIFICATIONS *Networking experience averages 10 years *Experienced in managing complex service businesses *Long history of managing vendor relationships on behalf of customers QUALITY OF NETWORK OPERATIONS STAFF *All staff trained and experienced in latest networking technologies *Staff focussed on customer service (for example, trouble tickets are never closed without customer approval) *Network Operations Center (NOC) staff experience ranges to 9 years *NOC staff experience averages 4 years *Staff trained in trouble-shooting procedures *Network always monitored by trained staff 13 full-time NOC staff members NETWORK OPERATIONS COVERAGE AND CAPABILITIES *Network operations staffed 24 hours/day, 365 days/year *Operations center protected by uninterruptable power supply *Established escalation procedures in place with equipment and telco vendors *State-of-the art secure NOC facility SERVICE RESPONSIVENESS *Response time for monitored problems is five minutes *Response time to calls generally within 10 minutes *In-house field service *Field service generally onsite within four hours NETWORK RELIABILITY *High (check references) *Robust network design *Redundant connection service available NETWORK PERFORMANCE *High (check references) *High performance *Internet connectivity - T3 access to Internet backbone - 10 Mb NEARNET backbone PROBLEM OWNERSHIP *Provide end-to-end problem solving USER SERVICES EXPERIENCE *First to offer user services (NSF Network Service Center) *Have provided information services, seminars and training support since inception COMMERCIAL ACCESSIBILITY *Full access to Commercial Internet *Represented on CIX Board MANAGEMENT RESPONSIVENESS TO MEMBER NEEDS *Members represented on influential committees: - Management Steering Committee - Planning Committee - Technical Committee - User Services Committee REFERENCES *Choose ANY member as reference ******************************* * NEARNET * * BBN TECHNOLOGY SERVICES INC.* * 10 Moulton Street * * Cambridge, MA 02138 * * Telephone (617) 873-8730 * * FAX (617) 873-5620 * ******************************* ^L NEARNET Service and Support To help you evaluate NEARNET offerings, we include the following summary of our extensive array of services. If you wish to learn more about our services, we invite you to call us at 617-873-8730. Before choosing a business partner it is helpful to check references, and choosing your Internet service partner should be no exception. We encourage you to check us out. We will put you in touch with your choice of NEARNET members (see the enclosed membership list). STARTUP SERVICES *Presales Consulting *Installation Coordination *Transport Purchase *Equipment Purchase *Internet Integration into Clients Network *Domain & Network Number Registration *Introductory Technical Training *Introductory User Training NETWORK OPERATIONS SUPPORT *Around-the-clock Network Operations *End-to-end Problem Resolution *Problem Tracking/Trouble Ticket System *Backbone Management *Equipment Maintenance *Transport Maintenance *On-site Field Service *Ongoing Configuration Management TECHNICAL SUPPORT *Ongoing Systems Integration *Network Consulting & Configuration Support *Network Traffic Statistics *Network Time Protocol *Security Services *ESNET/DECNET Connectivity *Internet Consulting *Network News Feed *Domain Name Service *Internet Tools Training *Security Training *Ongoing Seminar Series *Annual Member Seminar (Users Group) *Commerce Business Daily *On-line Help & Information Mailboxes *Videotape Lending Library *Quarterly Newsletter *Access to Network Tools *FTP Area for Dialup Members *Internet Talk Radio *MBone *Clarinet and SCHOOLnet News *Reliable Gopher, Archie, and Veronica Servers ADDITIONAL BENEFITS *Member Discount on Remote Telnet Access *Free Advertising in the Global Network Navigator *Full Commercial Routing ******************************* * NEARNET * * BBN TECHNOLOGY SERVICES INC.* * 10 Moulton Street * * Cambridge, MA 02138 * * Telephone (617) 873-8730 * * FAX (617) 873-5620 * ******************************* ^L *********************** * LEASED LINE SERVICE * *********************** LEASED-LINE SERVICE IS EFFORTLESS It provides organizations with full-time, turnkey connections to NEARNET. With a variety of connections speeds, ranging from 9.6Kb/s to 10 Mb/s. Leased-line service is ideal for organizations that need interactive network connectivity. LEASED-LINE SERVICE IS RELIABLE The NEARNET Network Operations Center monitors Leased-line connections 24 hours a day, 365 days a year to assure the highest possible availability. And, Leased-line service includes packet filters for network security. SERVICE SPECIFICATIONS What NEARNET Provides: A TCP/IP router, a CSU/DSU, and a leased line that is appropriate for the selected speed of service. 10 Mb/s service is provided by microwave equipment or fiber facilities. What You Provide: Space and power for the equipment and a connection to your organization's network. INSTALLATION OPTIONS Full-service installation includes on-site hardware installation by NEARNET engineers, as well as training on networking topics such as establishing domain name servers, configuring gateways, implementing subnetting schemes, and setting up mail servers. With self-service installation, NEARNET provides telephone consultation to your liaison during hardware installation. Organizations that should consider self-service installation are those with staff experienced in TCP/IP, Internet technology, and network equipment installation. ******************** * DIAL-UP SERVICES * ******************** DIAL-UP SERVICE IS INEXPENSIVE With Dial-up service, you can use your existing equipment and expertise to connect your organization's network to a NEARNET point of presence. Because Dial-up customers keep their networking costs down by maintaining their own connections, this service is ideal for those who use network connections for simple tasks, such as accessing electronic mail. CONNECTION OPTIONS Dial-up service provides two options for connecting to NEARNET: Shared Port access and Dedicated Port access. Shared Port access gives organizations limited network access during the business day and unlimited access during off hours. Dedicated Port access provides unlimited network access all the time. SERVICE SPECIFICATIONS What NEARNET Provides: Access to NEARNET point-of-presence, which contains a SLIP-compatible router and a pool of dial-in modems. What you Provide: A computer with TCP/IP and SLIP support chosen from NEARNET's list of approved configurations, a modem, and a phone line. If you have a LAN, your computer must also function as a gateway to it. INSTALLATION OPTIONS Full-service installation includes software configuration assistance by NEARNET engineers, as well as training on networking topics such as establishing domain name servers, configuring gateways, implementing subnetting schemes, and setting up mail servers. With self-service installation, NEARNET provides telephone consultation to your liaison during hardware installation. Organizations that should consider self-service installation are those with staff experienced in TCP/IP, Internet technology, and network equipment installation. **************** * DIAL-UP PLUS * **************** DIAL-UP PLUS SERVICE IS TURNKEY It gives organizations inexpensive, easy-to-install NEARNET connections. Dial-up Plus service is perfect for small organizations that don't have staff available to babysit software and hardware because it includes all of the equipment necessary for connecting to a NEARNET point-of-presence. Dial-up Plus service even includes packet filters for network security. CONNECTION OPTIONS Dial-up Plus service provides two options for connecting to NEARNET: Shared Port access gives organizations limited network access during the business day and unlimited access during off hours. Dedicated Port access provides unlimited network access all the time. SERVICE SPECIFICATIONS What NEARNET Provides: A demand-dial TCP/IP router, a 14.4-bps modem, and access to a NEARNET point-of-presence, which contains a SLIP-compatible router and a pool of dial-in modems. What You Provide: Space and power for the equipment, a telephone line, and a connection to your organization's network. INSTALLATION OPTIONS Full-service installation includes on-site hardware installation by NEARNET engineers, as well as training on networking topics such as establishing schemes, and setting up mail servers. With self-service installation, NEARNET provides telephone consultation to your liaison during hardware installation. Organizations that should consider self-service installation are those with staff experienced in TCP/IP, Internet technology, and network equipment installation. Dial-up Internet Service Approved Hardware and Software Combinations (Nov. 1, 1992) NEARNET approves combinations of hardware and software that will be supported for members connecting to our Dial-up Internet service. NEARNET is not responsible for assisting with modem incompatibility problems or for help with non-approved configurations. Listed below are the combinations that are currently approved: 1. SUN + SLIPware or MorningStar SLIP + modem 2. DEC + ULTRIX + MODEM 3. DEC + VMS + TGV MULTINET TCP/IP + modem 4. PC + DOS + KA9Q + serial interface + modem 5. IBM RS/6000 + AIX + modem 6. Macintosh + Mach10 + modem Note on Modems: NEARNET's Cambridge Dialup Server currently uses T2500 modems which operate using V.32, V.42, V.42bis at up tp 19,200 bps. NEARNET's Nashua Dialup Server currently uses Telebit T3000 modems which operate using V.32, V.32bis, V.42, V.42bis at up to 57,600 bps. Members are responsible for selecting modems which interoperate with these models. ************************* * NEARNET FEE SCHEDULE * * JANUARY 1, 1994 * ************************* Annual Annual Commercial Installation Dial-up Service Fee Routing (Optional) Fee Services 14.4 Kb/s Shared Port $2,980 $ 300 $1,000 14.4 Kb/s Dedicated $4,300 $ 500 $1,000 Dial-up Plus Services 14.4 Kb/s Shared Port $4,740 $ 300 $5,950 14.4 Kb/s Dedicated $6,060 $ 500 $5,950 Leased Line Services 19.2 Kb/s $ 7,600 $1,000 $ 8,450 56 Kb/s $10,900 $2,750 $ 8,450 128 Kb/s $12,550 $3,000 $14,950 192 Kb/s $13,375 $3,125 $14,950 256 Kb/s $14,200 $3,250 $14,950 384 Kb/s $15,850 $3,500 $14,950 768 Kb/s $20,800 $4,500 $14,950 T1 (1.54 Mb/s) $27,400 $6,500 $14,950 10 Mb/s Microwave $44,600 $9,500 $49,500 T3 Please call for quote CONSULTING Internetwork Engineering and Consulting $175/hour $1,200/day (4 hour minimum) ANNUAL SERVICE FEE NEARNET's Annual Service Fee covers delivery of turnkey, managed Internet service to your organization. This fee includes 24 hour/day network operations, end-to-end problem resolution, on-site field service, network news feeds, domain name service, technical support, user services (on-line help, seminars, etc.), equipment (e.g. routers and DSU/CSUs), and over forty other distinct services and member benefits outlined in the NEARNET Service and Support Guide. COMMERCIAL ROUTING OPTION Commercial routing ensures that your business is interconnected with all Internet destinations. The commercial routing option is required if your business delivers a chargable service over the Internet. INSTALLATION FEE NEARNET's Standard Installation fee includes on-site equipment installation, two days of training for information and technical liaisons at our Cambridge, Massachusetts Training Center. Standard Installation also includes one day (8 hours) of consulting on such topics as IP routing, firewall design, domain name service, mail configuration, Internet tools, or another Internet-related topic of member's choice. Members with Internet expertise may choose Self-service Installation. Members choosing Self-service Installation are responsible for installing and integrating NEARNET equipment and services into their network environment. Self-service Installation is available at a $3,500 discount off Standard Installation. Basic Dial-up services are listed on the fee schedule with Self-service Installation. Additional assistance and training are available on a consulting basis. ANNUAL TRANSPORT COSTS NEARNET purchases leased telephone lines for member organizations. Connection options and costs vary per member location. Dial-up Members pay usage charges directly to their local telephone company. **PLEASE CALL NEARNET AT (617) 873-8730 FOR AN EXACT QUOTATION FOR YOUR SITE** From gnu@toad.com Fri Jan 28 01:24:53 1994 Received: from toad.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id BAA03167; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 01:24:51 -0800 From: gnu@toad.com Received: from localhost by toad.com id AA08050; Fri, 28 Jan 94 01:25:43 PST Message-Id: <9401280925.AA08050@toad.com> To: strata@fenchurch.MIT.EDU Cc: gnu@toad.com, admin@tlg.org Subject: Re: Moving Toad's 56K line to Sunnyvale! In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 01:25:41 -0800 X-Status: Status: O > What monies would need to be paid out immediately? Surely not the full > $3200, since various of it comes from equipment that would need to be bought > and so on. If it's just the $600 to move the line and then the cost of the > line per month, without having to activate it until after Feb1st sometime, > then sure, I'm on. Where do I send my $600? All that's needed immediately is for you to agree that you want the line. When I switch over to the 444 Market 56K, then we can move the end of the line, and change the billing to you. Actually the thing to do is to call the telco and tell them we want to do it; they have to schedule a few weeks in advance. They'll also tell us what the new monthly price is. When the bill arrives at your place, it'll probably include the $600 for the move (it might wait a month). We can split this down to $200, $200, and $200 across three months by asking telco, I think. I'll presume that you want this option. I'll need to know your phone number at your house (at least the area code and exchange) to get the new billing, and will need the address to put in the move order and the billing change. (BTW, your entry in the TLG members list is out of date -- it shows your old phone#). When you have the money, you can buy the rest of it and get up on the net. John From lmclean@tibalt.supernet.ab.ca Fri Jan 28 07:26:41 1994 Received: from tibalt.supernet.ab.ca by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id HAA03442; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 07:26:33 -0800 Message-Id: <199401281526.HAA03442@tlg.org> Received: by tibalt.supernet.ab.ca (1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA06433; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 08:25:10 -0700 From: Lonny Mclean Subject: information on receiving internet via cable To: info@tlg.org Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 8:25:10 MST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] X-Status: Status: O Could you please send me some info on receiving Internet through cable. In particular, could you tell me how one gets around the unidirectional limits of cable. I live in Canada, and would like to introduce this in some way to our cable operators or subscribe. Lonny Mclean lmclean@tibalt.supernet.ab.ca From rnielsen@everest.com Fri Jan 28 08:26:18 1994 Received: from openlink.openlink.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id IAA03497; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 08:26:16 -0800 Received: from everest.com ([140.174.104.1]) by openlink.openlink.com with SMTP id AA09349 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Fri, 28 Jan 1994 08:28:18 -0800 Received: by everest.com (NX5.67c/NeXT-1.0+/Anterior) id AA00282; Fri, 28 Jan 94 08:25:28 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 08:25:28 -0800 From: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen) Message-Id: <9401281625.AA00282@everest.com> Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.87.1) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.87.1) To: tomj@fnord.tlg.org (Tom Jennings) Subject: Re: DNS Cc: admin@fnord.tlg.org X-Status: Status: O Greetings Tom and Admin, I have installed DNS on my machine this morning. I have not tested any part of it yet, so all bets are off. I will experiment with it this weekend. Please feel free to "poke" at it, and let me know what you think. Robert D. Nielsen 140.174.104.1 Also: --- Everest is a NeXT. Everest is the only host on the local net. Everest has two interfaces slip0 140.174.104.1 en0 140.174.104.2 NeXT does not use the standard Unix flat files. This is both a blessing and a curse. To 'dump' the flat file format out of the database (trademarked NetInfo), use nidump. For example: everest:27# nidump hosts / 140.174.104.2 everest.com everest mailhost everest:28# nidump hosts . 127.0.0.1 localhost 255.255.255.255 broadcasthost everest:29# --- Begin forwarded message: From: tomj@fnord.tlg.org (Tom Jennings) Subject: Re: DNS To: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 15:50:14 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin@fnord.tlg.org In-Reply-To: <9401121924.AA00957@everest.com> from "Robert D. Nielsen" at Jan 12, 94 11:24:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 921 Your name server is refusing connections... my scheduleis such that I can't read mail here within any predictable tim frame... You can safely put up your DNS server at any time. Even if the data is incorrect, since it's not yet coupled into the DNS syste, (via application to the NIC, etc) no one will know to retreive dxata from it. So put it up, and I'll test it out, and mail you the results... then I can see what you've got and such... PS: thanks for the check! > > Do you think today would be a good time to try to have you look at my DNS setup? If not, please tell me when. > > My current setup is as follows. > I receive mail via uucp from OpenLink (they are my MX) > I send mail via ip. > I am a DNS client of wps.com. > > I have not installed my proposed DNS setup, although I believe I have it properly configured. > -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From krowney@informix.com Fri Jan 28 09:38:48 1994 Received: from gateway.informix.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id JAA03589; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 09:38:41 -0800 Received: from informix.com (infmx.informix.com) by gateway.informix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13329; Fri, 28 Jan 94 09:39:47 PST Received: from sanfran.informix.com by informix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06284; Fri, 28 Jan 94 09:39:46 PST Received: by sanfran.informix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26102; Fri, 28 Jan 94 09:40:24 PST Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 09:40:24 PST From: krowney@informix.com (Kevin Rowney) Message-Id: <9401281740.AA26102@sanfran.informix.com> To: info@admin.tlg.rg.net Subject: SLIP connection in SF X-Status: Status: O How cheap is "cheap"? From brian@cygnus.com Fri Jan 28 11:01:26 1994 Received: from relay1 by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id LAA03669; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 11:01:20 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1 with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwavk22443; Fri, 28 Jan 94 14:01:38 -0500 Received: from majipoor.cygnus.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06312; Fri, 28 Jan 94 11:01:19 PST From: brian@cygnus.com (Brian R. Smith) Received: from localhost (brian@localhost) by majipoor.cygnus.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) id LAA24320; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 11:01:17 -0800 Message-Id: <199401281901.LAA24320@majipoor.cygnus.com> Subject: Re: no answer (fwd) To: tomj@fnord.tlg.org (Tom Jennings) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 11:01:14 -0800 (PST) Cc: brian@cygnus.com, strick@netcom.com, admin@fnord.tlg.org In-Reply-To: <199401280204.SAA02433@tlg.org> from "Tom Jennings" at Jan 27, 94 06:04:52 pm Reply-To: brian@cygnus.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 443 X-Status: Status: O > > DTR wasn't getting to the modem... because was plugged into the > > parallel port of the portmaster. I moved it to port S9, and it's > > showing DTR now. > THANKS!!! (Sheesh how'd I do dat!) I blame IBM, for making parallel ports look exactly like serial ports. This bites me on PC's all the time. I have to stick a breakout box on them to figure out which is which. Piss-poor design, now standard with every PC. -- brian@cygnus.com From chen@apple.com Fri Jan 28 11:17:04 1994 Received: from guardian.apple.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id LAA03682; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 11:16:56 -0800 Received: from federal-excess.apple.com by guardian.apple.com with SMTP (5.65/8-Oct-1993-eef) id AA14061; Fri, 28 Jan 94 11:16:37 -0800 for chen@apple.com Received: from taurus.apple.com by federal-excess.apple.com with SMTP (5.64/26-Sep-1993-eef) id AA04043; Fri, 28 Jan 94 11:17:56 PST for info@tlg.org Received: from [17.130.21.27] (kip-27.apple.com [17.130.21.27]) by taurus.apple.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA26047; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 11:16:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199401281916.LAA26047@taurus.apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 11:18:55 -0800 To: info@tlg.org From: chen@apple.com (Michael Chen) Subject: Internet access Cc: chen@taurus.apple.com X-Status: Status: O Hello, I was told that I can get information about internet access via modem through your company. This is for email for my own personal use that I don't want to route through my company's account. Thanks, Michael ____________________________________________________________________ Michael Chen Internet: chen@apple.com Imaging Design Group/ATG AppleLink: CHEN.M From tomj Fri Jan 28 13:02:30 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03797; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 13:02:21 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401282102.NAA03797@tlg.org> Subject: Re: new modem To: dave@hh.sbay.org (David L. Black) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 13:02:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: from "David L. Black" at Jan 27, 94 06:57:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 846 X-Status: Status: O I live in SF, and go down there by appointment, basically. The POP is in Cygnus Support, a business, that we share par t of a closet with. Cygnus people will ocasionally reset a modem or something, but they don't do instlals, etc. Unfortunately I wont get down there untikl mid-next-week. I dont' have a fixed schedule and so I can't tell you what tim eto be there on what day; we can arrange it next week. > Just talked to Cliff, he was unable to reach either you or > Stu today, so he didn't stop by Cygnus to drop off our 28.8 modem. > We'd like to pick up the 14.4 at the same time. > > Should be plug-n-play, just plop it on the port and set the port for > 57600. Would it matter if we got the new modem to Cygnus tomorrow > morning? > > Thanks, Dave > -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Fri Jan 28 13:18:36 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03818; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 13:18:23 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401282118.NAA03818@tlg.org> Subject: Re: PPP setup problem To: dave@dogwood.com (Dave Cornejo) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 13:18:22 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <199401280612.WAA01214@white.dogwood.com> from "Dave Cornejo" at Jan 27, 94 10:11:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3089 X-Status: Status: O The setting changes you make stay on the right-hand-side of the "show port" listging, until you do a reset. set ... set ... set ... Nothing changed untik you do: reset s0 ALSO -- there is a long-standing problem with routing... I had forgotten about it... it has to do with the use of subnet .85.xx addresses. Basically -- don't! Make your SLIP interface an address within your own subnet, 96, say 96.1. This should be the first address on "your side" of the connection. SLIP won't care, and this part doesn't affect PPP. THIS PART DOES -- make the "far end" of the link be not that .85.xx address, but 140.174.23.13, which is the portmaster address. I don't know hardly anything about PPP. I'm pretty sure this SLIP subnet crap is part or all of the problem. A bunch of things need to get done at once. I'll gladly do it,b ut coordination is difficult today, as I have to run oiut the door (should have left two hours ago!) You can do all these things yourself... the actual commands ar ein quotes (save you the incredible hassle of deciphering the specific syntax... for instance, that the onyl wayt o set the netmask is to put it after the address!) Assuming 140.174.96.1 is the address of the link (ifconfig sl0, or at least in DNS for PPP) on your end: -- On your end, for SLIP, "ifconfig sl0 inet 140.174.96.1 140.174.23.13" -- For PPP, if you must, specify the far end as 140.174.23.13 (the PM itslef) In the PM: -- Associate your port (s0) with your address: "set s0 address 140.174.96.1 255.255.255.0" -- delete existing route: "del route 140.174.96.0" -- Add route to your address: "add route 140.174.96.0 140.174.96.1 1" -- "save all" -- "reset s0" These are the addresses the PM has for you: 140.174.85.10 140.174.85.10 HL 1 ptp0 140.174.96.0 140.174.85.10 NS 1 ptp0 The first is of course the route to the specified "port" address (which is really the remote address, ie. your end). It now tihnks it's 85.10. When you change it to 140.174.96.1, that will show up in the "sh rou" command. The second is their poor excuse for ROUTED. The "del route" and "add route" will change it too. Hope this helps! I'll be out all day long... > > Howdy, > > I seem to be missing something on the PPP setup - I did what you said: > > set s0 protocol ppp > set s0 compression on > save s0 > sho s0 > reset s0 > > Now the show s0 command at this point says that the port should be > ready & talking PPP (default & active configs show PPP). However when > I log in the PPP stuff never gets a reply to its request config message. > I tried going back to SLIP and voila - it works. I telnet into nos1 and > do "sho s0" it shows the default config to be PPP, but the active > config is SLIP. Any clues? > > Sorry to bother you, > dave > > -- > Dave Cornejo There is nothing so subtle > Dogwood Media as the obvious > Fremont, California > -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Fri Jan 28 13:37:53 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03914; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 13:37:45 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199401282137.NAA03914@tlg.org> Subject: installation To: jeff@access-info.com Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 13:37:44 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 547 X-Status: Status: O I received phone message (relayed to me) saying you have installed a 56K leased line to us? There's no serious problem, and we're glad to have you, but it's the first I've heard of it, if so. Last we talked, you were still investigating possibilities, etc. Before we can complete your connection we'll need to get some information, a rundown on equipment and install fees. I'll be out until Tuesday, if you ocould email me here I'd apprciate it! Tom Jennings -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From jantypas@netcom.com Fri Jan 28 13:39:59 1994 Received: from netcom8.netcom.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03923; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 13:39:52 -0800 Received: from localhost by netcom8.netcom.com (8.6.4/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id NAA17461; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 13:41:43 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 13:41:43 -0800 From: jantypas@netcom.com (John Antypas) Message-Id: <199401282141.NAA17461@netcom8.netcom.com> To: info@admin.tlg.rg.net Subject: OK -- call me crazy but... X-Status: Status: O I am working with a small University in Davis CA. They are looking for an Internet connection. Currently, TLG has no access in the Davis area. If a 56Kb pathway were provided for DQ- University (a Native American University), AND TLG were allowed to use DQ as a POP for Davis/Sac, would TLG be interested in such a thing? From @cmsa.Berkeley.EDU:IAN@UCSFVM.UCSF.EDU Fri Jan 28 14:56:41 1994 Received: from cmsa.Berkeley.EDU by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA03995; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 14:56:23 -0800 Message-Id: <199401282256.OAA03995@tlg.org> Received: from UCSFVM.UCSF.EDU by cmsa.Berkeley.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7126; Fri, 28 Jan 94 14:57:27 PST Received: from UCSFVM.UCSF.EDU (IAN) by UCSFVM.UCSF.EDU (Mailer R2.08 PTF008) with BSMTP id 7269; Fri, 28 Jan 94 14:57:19 PST Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 14:57:09 PST From: Ian Tuller Subject: INFO To: info@tlg.org X-Status: Status: O Please send me information on the Internet dialin and SLIP/PPP services you provide. Thank you, Ian Tuller Director, Computing and Communications Services Information Technology Services University of California, San Francisco Box 0704 San Francisco, CA 94143 Internet: IAN@UCSFVM.UCSF.EDU Voice: 415-476-5097 Fax: 415-476-5523 From psb@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jan 28 15:04:29 1994 Received: from soda.berkeley.edu by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA04005; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 15:04:23 -0800 Received: from localhost (psb@localhost) by soda.berkeley.edu (8.6.5/PHILMAIL-1.10) id PAA11341 for info@tlg.org; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 15:05:35 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 15:05:35 -0800 From: "Partha S. Banerjee" Message-Id: <199401282305.PAA11341@soda.berkeley.edu> To: info@tlg.org Subject: want info X-Status: Status: O From rfdb@access.digex.net Fri Jan 28 15:37:12 1994 Received: from access3.digex.net by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA04070; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 15:37:05 -0800 Received: by access3.digex.net id AA23803 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for info@tlg.org); Fri, 28 Jan 1994 18:38:16 -0500 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 18:38:16 -0500 From: Rick Berge Message-Id: <199401282338.AA23803@access3.digex.net> To: info@tlg.org X-Status: Status: O send info From sfollmer@igc.apc.org Fri Jan 28 17:43:46 1994 Received: from cdp.igc.org by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id RAA04195; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 17:43:45 -0800 Received: from localhost by cdp.igc.org (8.6.4/Revision: 1.126 ) id RAA03479; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 17:44:40 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 17:44:40 -0800 From: Steve Follmer Message-Id: <199401290144.RAA03479@cdp.igc.org> To: admin@tlg.org Subject: PPP-on-demand X-Status: Status: O My needs, in which I believe I'm not alone, are: 10-20 hours of PPP 14.4 dialup a month usenet news access low cost a local phone call from Berkeley Will tlg be able to accomodate these needs in the near future? I believe you have the last 2 covered already; I'm interested in the first two. From tomj@fido.wps.com Fri Jan 28 19:24:23 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA04329; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 19:24:15 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA10932; Fri, 28 Jan 94 19:25:31 -0800 Received: from ccantares.wcupa.edu by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA10906; Fri, 28 Jan 94 19:23:28 -0800 Received: by ccantares.wcupa.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA10058; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 22:24:57 -0500 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 22:22:02 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Schull Subject: Re: information... (fwd In-Reply-To: <9401280404.AA06973@wps.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com X-Status: Status: O > Internet connectivity for cheap, no restrictions including reselling... Boy is that needed in this town. 20,000 high tech workers laid off and they don't have easy access to their future. If you can help bring access to Rochester, I'll give your equipment a roof (or whatever the hell it needs!) From tomj@fido.wps.com Fri Jan 28 19:24:32 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA04333; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 19:24:28 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA10941; Fri, 28 Jan 94 19:25:45 -0800 Received: from kumr.lns.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA10455; Fri, 28 Jan 94 16:06:53 -0800 Received: by kumr.lns.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.3) id ; Fri, 28 Jan 94 16:06 PST Message-Id: Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 16:06 PST From: pozar@kumr.lns.com (Tim Pozar) To: tomj@wps.com Subject: (fwd) InterNex Announces Low Cost ISDN to Internet Bundle Newsgroups: ba.internet Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com X-Status: Status: O Organization: Late Night Software (San Francisco) Xref: kumr ba.internet:2022 alt.internet.services:14168 comp.dcom.isdn:3505 alt.bbs.internet:13374 alt.dcom.telecom:5389 Path: kumr!toad.com!amdahl!szebra!claris.com!apple.com!netcomsv!decwrl!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!udel!news.sprintlink.net!internex.net!internex.net!not-for-mail From: rberger@internex.net (Robert J. Berger) Newsgroups: ba.internet,alt.internet.services,comp.dcom.isdn,alt.bbs.internet,alt.dcom.telecom Subject: InterNex Announces Low Cost ISDN to Internet Bundle Followup-To: ba.internet Date: 28 Jan 1994 01:02:51 -0800 Organization: InterNex Information Services,Inc. Lines: 76 Distribution: ba Message-ID: <2iakbr$90m@gaia.internex.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: gaia.internex.net Keywords: ISDN, Internet For Immediate Release INTERNEX BREAKS $1K PRICE BARRIER FOR HIGH SPEED ISDN ACCESS TO THE INTERNET Menlo Park, CA - January 28, 1994 - InterNex Information Services this week introduced their new Low Cost ISDN Bundle which breaks the $1000 cost barrier for hardware required to access the Internet at ISDN speeds. The bundle contains all the hardware required to connect Ethernet(TM) equipped personal computers, Macintosh, workstations and IP Routers to the Internet at bandwidths 10 times greater than todayUs analog modems. The Bundle, which includes an Ethernet / ISDN bridge and ISDN Network Terminator (NT-1) costs $995. Qualified students and faculty can purchase the Bundle for $695. The Bundle is available only in conjunction with an InterNex Internet Subscription which costs $150/month (64kbps) and $250 (128kbps) / month with unlimited usage. The Bundle and ISDN Internet Service are available immediately in the San Francisco Bay Area. "With our Low Cost Hardware Bundle and Early Adopter Internet Subscription pricing, Internauts can trade in their oxcart for a high performance vehicle to explore the ever-expanding Information Superhighway," said Robert J. Berger, President and founder of InterNex Information Services, Inc. "Modem speeds and text-based access make the Internet seem difficult to use. The order of magnitude greater bandwidth of ISDN allows people to access the Internet via easy to use graphical and multimedia clients that run directly on their PC or Macintosh." The technology provided by InterNex allows your computer to be seamlessly connected to the Internet. No longer do you have to remotely log into a foreign computer, battle user-hostile unix prompts or wade through text only interfaces. With an ISDN connection, your computer seems as if it is always connected to the Internet because the Ethernet/ISDN bridge automatically connects to the InterNex server whenever you need it for an Internet service such as Mosaic, gopher, news or mail. Since you are directly connected to the Internet, all these services have Graphical User Interfaces and all file transfers go directly to your computer instead of requiring you to first copy the file to the unix host and then copy it again to your local host over the serial link. ISDN offers raw speeds (before compression) from 56kbps to 128bps. This means that a 1 Megabyte file transfer takes around 1 minute compared to 10 minutes using a 14.4kbps modem. This creates a qualitative difference in the way one uses the Internet as it becomes feasible to use graphic intensive tools such as Mosaic, use a newsreader client or even bring up remote X Windows. InterNex is the first vendor in the Bay Area to integrate all the technology required to offer dialup access to the Internet using ISDN. We offer One-Stop-Shopping for everything you need to connect your PC, Macintosh or Unix Workstation to the Internet. InterNex offers other services to help individuals and businesses do commerce on the Internet. The InterNex Server Bureau(SM) allows you to expose the business, academic, and technical users of the Internet to your products or services. The Server Bureau(SM) allows you to outsource the purchase, support and technical wizardry to set up and maintain an Internet WWW, FTP or gopher server. InterNex also offers technical consultants and graphic artists who can transform your existing brochures or catalogs into on-line hyperlinked documents using the latest Internet protocols for a multimedia mix of video, graphics, sound and text. # # # # Contact: Robert J. Berger InterNex Information Services 1050 Chestnut Street Menlo Park, CA 94025 Voice: 415-473-3060 Fax: 415-473-3062 Email: isdn-info@internex.net -- Robert J. Berger - President InterNex Information Services, Inc. 1050 Chestnut Street Suite 202, Menlo Park, CA 94025 Voice: 415-473-3060 Fax: 415-473-3062 emai: rberger@internex.net -- Internet: pozar@kumr.lns.com Snail: Tim Pozar / KKSF / 77 Maiden Lane / San Francisco CA 94108 / USA POTS: +1 415 788 2022 Radio: KC6GNJ / KAE6247 From tomj@fido.wps.com Fri Jan 28 19:24:46 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA04338; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 19:24:43 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA10948; Fri, 28 Jan 94 19:26:00 -0800 Received: from kumr.lns.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA09408; Fri, 28 Jan 94 10:03:17 -0800 Received: by kumr.lns.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.3) id ; Fri, 28 Jan 94 10:03 PST Received: by fogcity.org id A1108wk Fri, 28 Jan 94 09:48:41 From: bill.essex@fogcity.org Message-Id: <9401280948.A1108wk@fogcity.org> Organization: Fog City Computer Services X-Mailer: TBBS/PIMP v2.42 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 09:48:41 Subject: RE: CABLE/PAIR @ 444 MKT To: tomj@wps.com Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com X-Status: Status: O HiYa: Yeah, those numbers will get Emily every time. Any chance of a connect soon / feedback appreciated. Hope everything else is fine. -- Bill From tomj@fido.wps.com Fri Jan 28 19:24:55 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA04342; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 19:24:52 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA10955; Fri, 28 Jan 94 19:26:10 -0800 Received: from ingres.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA09846; Fri, 28 Jan 94 12:53:33 -0800 Received: from pony.ingres.com by ingres.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/INGRES/zool/06.06.93) id AA17868; Fri, 28 Jan 94 12:53:51 PST Received: from monster by pony.ingres.com (5.65c8+/INGRES/Router/pony/08.16.93) id AA27801; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 12:53:57 -0800 Received: by monsterngres.com.ingres.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/INGRES/AIX/monster/08.16.93) id AA14538; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 12:40:26 -0800 From: tomm@ingres.com Message-Id: <9401282040.AA14538@monsterngres.com.ingres.com> Subject: Line is installed! To: tomj@wps.com Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 12:40:25 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 296 Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com X-Status: Status: O Hi Tom, I just talked to PacBell and the line has been installed. They told me that they have connected it to the telco box downstairs and attached a blue sticker with: My Name (Tom Markson) The Number ( 788-7146) Cable/pair: 214, 3462 Hope I caught you before you went over there! --tom From tomj@fido.wps.com Fri Jan 28 19:25:01 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA04346; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 19:24:58 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA10962; Fri, 28 Jan 94 19:26:16 -0800 Received: from uucp1-b.netcom.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA10382; Fri, 28 Jan 94 15:39:45 -0800 Received: from livingston.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with SMTP (8.6.4/SMI-4.1) id PAA12002; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 15:40:17 -0800 Received: from server.livingston.com by livingston.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-940127) id AA20367; Fri, 28 Jan 94 15:34:29 PST From: doug@livingston.com (Doug Meltzer) Message-Id: <9401282334.AA20367@livingston.com> Subject: Contact Needs Help To: tomj@fido.wps.com Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 15:39:05 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: doug@livingston.com (Douglas H. Meltzer) Return-Receipt-To: doug@livingston.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 299 Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com X-Status: Status: O Tom, I gave your email address and phone out to a lady in destress. There back on the east coast, called Capital Area Internet Service. Debbie Alston. They are trying to go thru Sprint with a IRX router. Maybe you can help them with the politics. Thanks in advance, Doug Meltzer From tomj Fri Jan 28 19:36:08 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA04377; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 19:36:07 -0800 Received: from brnet.bio.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA01129; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 12:50:55 -0800 From: Lee Jensen To: admin@tlg.org Subject: bandwidth X-Mailer: ScoMail 1.0 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 12:48:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <9401251248.aa11786@brnet.bio.com> Sender: tomj X-Status: Status: O Hi TLG: I'm still looking for a little more speed. I've seen some notes concerning the prospects of locating servers at 444 Market. Is that a possibility and what are the details? In my case we'd probably want to begin with a SPARC 2, but would need to be able to upgrade later. Another possibilty is to use multiple V.FC (28.8 Kbps) modems. Do you know what people are getting for ping times and transfer rates with these? If this was covered at the meeting, I'm sorry that I just couldn't make it due to a conflict with another meeting I needed to go to. I'll try for future meetings. Thanks -- ========================================================== = Lee Jensen, PhD = = VITADATA | Voice: (510) 237-6113 = = 614 Commodore Drive | Fax: (510) 237-6083 = = Richmond, CA 94804 | Internet: lee@bio.com = ========================================================== From roliver@nyx10.cs.du.edu Sat Jan 29 13:59:39 1994 Received: from mordor.cs.du.edu by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA05224; Sat, 29 Jan 1994 13:59:30 -0800 Received: from nyx10.cs.du.edu by mordor.cs.du.edu with SMTP id AA05347 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Sat, 29 Jan 1994 14:59:13 -0700 Received: by nyx10.cs.du.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07708; Sat, 29 Jan 94 15:00:01 MST From: roliver@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Robert Oliver) Message-Id: <9401292200.AA07708@nyx10.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users. Subject: ppp To: info@tlg.org Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 15:00:01 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 156 X-Status: Status: O Do you have a pop (point of present) in the houston area? Also sence I supply the modem is there a porblem with 16.8K HST or v.34 for the same price? From daemon Sat Jan 29 14:31:18 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA00079; Sat, 29 Jan 1994 14:31:17 -0800 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 14:31:17 -0800 From: root (Root of all evil) Message-Id: <199401292231.OAA00079@tlg.org> To: admin Subject: tlg.org rebooted on Sat Jan 29 14:55:45 PST 1994 X-Status: Status: O From admin@tlg.org Sat Jan 29 14:42:05 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA00091; Sat, 29 Jan 1994 14:40:53 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwazq02374; Sat, 29 Jan 94 17:40:59 -0500 Received: from galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20875; Sat, 29 Jan 94 14:40:56 PST Received: by galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16230; Sat, 29 Jan 94 14:40:54 PST Date: Sat, 29 Jan 94 14:40:54 PST From: mdurkin@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu (Mike Durkin) Message-Id: <9401292240.AA16230@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu> To: private-garden@cygnus.com Subject: BARRNet T-1 price goes UP! X-Status: Status: O BARRNet raised their T-1 prices this year. It used to be something like $500/mo. for a 2-year pre-paid contract for the least endowed groups and another 25% off that for non-profits. Their updated info file now says $950/mo. for a 2-year prepaid. They also nuked their "Service Provider" category and merged it with "Commercial" although I dunno what that means. Just thought that's kinda interesting :-> From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 29 14:56:09 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA00092; Sat, 29 Jan 1994 14:40:54 -0800 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 14:40:54 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199401292240.OAA00092@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org X-Status: Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-cygnus-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 tlg-admin@Sunnyside.COM (Sunnyside)... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA00091; Sat, 29 Jan 1994 14:40:53 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwazq02374; Sat, 29 Jan 94 17:40:59 -0500 Received: from galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20875; Sat, 29 Jan 94 14:40:56 PST Received: by galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16230; Sat, 29 Jan 94 14:40:54 PST Date: Sat, 29 Jan 94 14:40:54 PST From: mdurkin@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu (Mike Durkin) Message-Id: <9401292240.AA16230@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu> To: private-garden@cygnus.com Subject: BARRNet T-1 price goes UP! BARRNet raised their T-1 prices this year. It used to be something like $500/mo. for a 2-year pre-paid contract for the least endowed groups and another 25% off that for non-profits. Their updated info file now says $950/mo. for a 2-year prepaid. They also nuked their "Service Provider" category and merged it with "Commercial" although I dunno what that means. Just thought that's kinda interesting :-> From swanson@seldon.arc.nasa.gov Sat Jan 29 18:23:54 1994 Received: from seldon.arc.nasa.gov by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id SAA00245; Sat, 29 Jan 1994 18:23:46 -0800 Received: by seldon.arc.nasa.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19470; Sat, 29 Jan 94 18:23:05 PST Date: Sat, 29 Jan 94 18:23:05 PST From: swanson@seldon.arc.nasa.gov (Keith J. Swanson) Message-Id: <9401300223.AA19470@seldon.arc.nasa.gov> To: info@admin.tlg.rg.net Cc: rkj@slc.slac.stanford.edu Subject: info request X-Status: Status: O Please send info regarding: SF Bay Area: Want a cheap PPP/SLIP internet connection? info@admin.tlg.rg.net thanks, keith s. From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 29 19:29:22 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA00297; Sat, 29 Jan 1994 19:29:21 -0800 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 19:29:21 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401300329.TAA00297@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org X-Status: Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA00377; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:06:17 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwapg13403; Wed, 26 Jan 94 22:03:57 -0500 Received: from wsrcc.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17389; Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:03:44 PST Received: by wsrcc.com id AA17370 (5.67a/IDA-1.5-WSR-12/03/93 for private-garden@cygnus.com); Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:03:39 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:03:39 -0800 From: wolfgang@wsrcc.com (Wolfgang Rupprecht) Message-Id: <199401270303.AA17370@wsrcc.com> X-Authentication: unauthenticatable at wsrcc.com To: private-garden@cygnus.com Subject: disturbance Organization: W S Rupprecht Computer Consulting, Fremont CA Are we having global network problems? We are dropping an awful lot of packets going from tlg to decwrl.dec.com (33% of ping packets). I can't get a uucp over tcp to actually do anything but alarm and time out. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang Rupprecht SF Bay Area: Want a cheap PPP/SLIP internet connection? info@admin.tlg.rg.net From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 29 19:59:26 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA00320; Sat, 29 Jan 1994 19:59:25 -0800 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 19:59:25 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401300359.TAA00320@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org X-Status: Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA00424; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:33:42 -0800 From: rogerk@queernet.org Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwapi03524; Wed, 26 Jan 94 22:33:53 -0500 Received: from inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17755; Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:33:51 PST Received: from unpc.queernet.org by inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com (5.65/13Jan94) id AA20997; Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:22:13 -0800 Received: by unpc.queernet.org (Smail3.1.28.1 #10) id m0pPNKb-000MWFC; Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:23 PST Message-Id: To: private-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Re: disturbance In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:03:39 -0800. <199401270303.AA17370@wsrcc.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:23:43 PST > Are we having global network problems? We are dropping an awful lot > of packets going from tlg to decwrl.dec.com (33% of ping packets). I > can't get a uucp over tcp to actually do anything but alarm and time > out. > > -wolfgang The lossage seems to be *only* between us and AlterNet... --- ROGER B.A. KLORESE rogerk@QueerNet.ORG 2215-R Market Street #576 San Francisco, CA 94114 +1 415 ALL-ARFF "There is only one real blasphemy: the refusal of joy." -- Paul Rudnick From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 29 20:29:20 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA00338; Sat, 29 Jan 1994 20:29:19 -0800 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 20:29:19 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401300429.UAA00338@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org X-Status: Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA00481; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 20:18:28 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwapl00837; Wed, 26 Jan 94 23:18:23 -0500 Received: from hp.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18243; Wed, 26 Jan 94 20:18:18 PST Received: from hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com by hp.com with SMTP (1.36.108.7/15.5+IOS 3.13) id AA11422; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 20:18:17 -0800 Received: by hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com (1.37.187.4/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA27336; Wed, 26 Jan 94 20:14:03 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 20:14:03 -0800 From: "William S. Kaster" Message-Id: <9401270414.AA27336@hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com> To: private-garden@cygnus.com Subject: This sucks. 68% packet loss. This is getting annoying. I'm seeing hangs of up to 2 minutes again. I guess the 814 folks are using their ethernet. Sigh. Maybe I should look into moving to 814. :-( Here is some sample output from a ping command. Ugly. -Bill -- meridian:/usr/adm$ ping opus PING opus.chem.psu.edu (128.118.30.98): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=2 ttl=248 time=339 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=5 ttl=251 time=321 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=6 ttl=252 time=306 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=10 ttl=0 time=329 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=14 ttl=4 time=295 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=15 ttl=5 time=298 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=22 ttl=12 time=596 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=23 ttl=13 time=304 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=30 ttl=20 time=315 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=35 ttl=25 time=315 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=37 ttl=27 time=324 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=38 ttl=28 time=297 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=39 ttl=29 time=324 ms 64 bytes from 128.118.30.98: icmp_seq=42 ttl=32 time=411 ms --- opus.chem.psu.edu ping statistics --- 46 packets transmitted, 14 packets received, 69% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max = 295/341/596 ms From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jan 29 22:29:22 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id WAA00435; Sat, 29 Jan 1994 22:29:21 -0800 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 22:29:21 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199401300629.WAA00435@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org X-Status: Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id WAA00634; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 22:05:14 -0800 From: gnu@toad.com Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwaps00254; Thu, 27 Jan 94 01:05:32 -0500 Received: from toad.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19685; Wed, 26 Jan 94 22:05:29 PST Received: from localhost by toad.com id AA29296; Wed, 26 Jan 94 22:05:20 PST Message-Id: <9401270605.AA29296@toad.com> To: "William S. Kaster" Cc: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Re: This sucks. 68% packet loss. [How to diagnose it!] In-Reply-To: <9401270414.AA27336@hpwss701.mayfield.hp.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 22:05:18 -0800 When this happens, try running a traceroute and seeing which is the first router at which you see packet drops. When I did this for the "decwrl" ping, it showed: traceroute to decwrl.dec.com (16.1.0.1), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 gw-mv-eth1.cygnus.com (140.174.1.4) 3 ms 2 ms 2 ms 2 gw-mv2-eth2.cygnus.com (140.174.4.2) 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms 3 gw-marin-sf.tlg.rg.net (140.174.123.2) 8 ms 8 ms 7 ms 4 gw-sf-sprint.tlg.rg.net (140.174.122.1) 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms 5 sl-stk-3-S2-T1.sprintlink.net (144.228.200.33) 18 ms 16 ms 16 ms 6 sl-stk-1-F0.sprintlink.net (144.228.8.225) 74 ms 8 sl-dc-2-F0.sprintlink.net (144.228.1.35) 74 ms 80 ms 76 ms 9 Washington.DC.ALTER.NET (192.41.177.248) 82 ms 75 ms 77 ms 10 San-Jose3.CA.ALTER.NET (137.39.128.10) 144 ms 154 ms 146 ms 11 Palo-Alto1.CA.ALTER.NET (137.39.101.130) 145 ms * * 12 * decwrl.dec.com (16.1.0.1) 90 ms * The problem seems to be between San-Jose3 and Palo-Alto1. (Any site beyond the first one that drops packets will also look lossy...) You didn't give the name or IP address of where you were pinging *from*, so I couldn't try tracing from Cygnus to each end to see where I noticed loss. I didn't see any problem on the opus end, though. John From tatertot!flesh@netcom.com Sun Jan 30 00:04:55 1994 Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id AAA00509; Sun, 30 Jan 1994 00:04:49 -0800 Received: from tatertot.UUCP by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.4/SMI-4.1) id AAA03702; Sun, 30 Jan 1994 00:05:58 -0800 Received: by tatertot.com (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Sat, 29 Jan 94 23:20:16 PST for info@tlg.org Subject: info From: flesh@tatertot.com (flesh) Reply-To: flesh@tatertot.com Message-Id: <01291994.232013@tatertot.com> Date: 29 Jan 94 23:20:13 PST Organization: TaterTot Online Services To: info@tlg.org X-Status: Status: O w00f! TaterTot News & Mail * San Francisco,CA * VirtualNET @1415008 * ManicNet @2 415.255.8340 * @tatertot.com * WWIVNet @4552 * Link @14552 * GAYnet @4500 * From kee@kagi.com Sun Jan 30 21:24:59 1994 Received: from zocalo.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id VAA01361; Sun, 30 Jan 1994 21:24:55 -0800 Received: from kagi.kagi.com by zocalo.com (5.65/Zocalo-2.1) id AA01909; Sun, 30 Jan 94 21:33:06 PST Message-Id: <9401310533.AA01909@zocalo.com> X-Sender: kee@pop.kagi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 21:21:47 -0800 To: admin@fnord.tlg.org From: kee@kagi.com (Kee Nethery +1 510 843 6140) Subject: primary DNS for kagi.com? X-Status: Status: O could I have you guys act as my primary DNS? I am downstream of Bill Woodcock and well, I'd like to find a different primary other than zocalo.zocalo.com. If you can act as primary, what information do you need from me and I'll get it all together and send it your way. Thanks, Kee Nethery _______________________________________________________ Kee Nethery +1 510 843 6140 Kagi Engineering kee@kagi.com 1442-A Walnut Street #362 AOL: kee Berkeley, CA 94709-1405 USA AppleLink: kee From jh@moon.nbn.com Sun Jan 30 23:05:30 1994 Received: from moon.nbn.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id XAA01437; Sun, 30 Jan 1994 23:05:28 -0800 Received: from localhost (jh@localhost) by moon.nbn.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) id XAA02629; Sun, 30 Jan 1994 23:05:56 -0800 From: jh@moon.nbn.com (John Harkin) Message-Id: <9401302305.ZM2627@moon.nbn.com> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 23:05:54 -0800 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (2.1.0 10/27/92) To: nacr@cygnus.com, admin@tlg.org Subject: 198.180.205.nacr X-Status: Status: O Did this NACR ever get sent in? I sent it in 1/20/94 but the backbone doesn't know about it yet. John ---- Network Announcement Change Request ---- NSFNET NACR Template Version 7.0 TLG Service The administrators of the following networks for which access is requested to the NSFNET backbone service agree that traffic from these networks that will transit the NSFNET backbone service complies with the "NSFNET BACKBONE SERVICES ACCEPTABLE USE POLICY" dated June 1992. See ftp.cygnus.com:/pub/tlg/help.template.net.tlg for further information on this template. %begin nsfnet nacr v7.0 netnum: 198.180.205.0 netname: ORBIT netcc: US orgname: ORBiT Software (USA) Inc. orgaddr: 505A San Marin Drive, Suite 200 orgcity: Novato orgstate: CA orgzip: 94945 orgcc: US orgtype: n bbone: T3 homeas: 2914 aslist: 1:1240 2:1800 aup: R action: A comment: %end nsfnet nacr -- John Harkin +1 415 472-1600 moon!jh jh@nbn.com postmaster@nbn.com North Bay Network - Direct Connect Internet for the North Bay From daemon Mon Jan 31 09:30:03 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id JAA01865; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:30:02 -0800 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:30:02 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: host not found) Message-Id: <199401311730.JAA01865@tlg.org> To: flesh Status: OR ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- niten@cybase.com (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 501 niten@cybase.com... 550 Host unknown (Name server: host not found) ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id JAA01863; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:30:02 -0800 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:30:02 -0800 From: flesh (Flesh) Message-Id: <199401311730.JAA01863@tlg.org> To: niten@cybase.com Subject: your phone call Hello If you are still interested in recieving info in regards to tlg, email info@tlg.org. This will generate a brochure with all the information inregards to the services, prices, other assorted infromation about what is offered through tlg. From vmatt@netcom.com Mon Jan 31 09:41:33 1994 Received: from mail.netcom.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id JAA01882; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:41:23 -0800 Received: from localhost by mail.netcom.com (8.6.4/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id JAA10148; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:43:15 -0800 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:31:56 -0800 (PST) From: "Matthew S. Reeves" Subject: Seeking Domain To: info@tlg.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: OR Please send me info about getting my own domain, or making it *LOOK* to the outside world like I have my own domain. I have a small business with people in the Bay Area, LA and Boston. I would like uniformity among email addresses, for example, tom@company.com, dick@company.com, harry@company.com. This would give the cusotmers an impression that the messages from the workers all came from the same domain of comapany.com. I would like each person to have easy, local, inexpensive, and full access to the internet from their own city. I understand there is an mx record that can be created to give the appearance of, but not actually be, a domain. Or maybe there is some other way of doing it without going thru all the expense of getting a domain from netcom. Thanx.... m From tomj@fido.wps.com Mon Jan 31 10:02:36 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA01941; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 10:02:33 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA04435; Mon, 31 Jan 94 10:03:33 -0800 Received: from cyborganic.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA02936; Sun, 30 Jan 94 22:46:07 -0800 Received: from dairyland.cyborganic.com by cyborganic (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA14922; Mon, 31 Jan 94 06:45:29 GMT Message-Id: <9401310645.AA14922@cyborganic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 22:46:15 -0800 To: tomj@wps.com (Tom Jennings) From: Jonathan Steuer Subject: Re: DNS trivia... Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O >Can you at some point, low pririty, change your secondary DNS from >fido.wps.com to fnord.tlg.org? I'm offloading stuff from my machine, and >putting it on tlg.org. Better performance from ther, too... I was running with rip.psg.com as a secondary - that is how you set me up in October. I've switched it over to fnord.tlg.org as of right now... >It's turned on now. You'll have to re-submit your NIC form... just >change the secondary name server site to FNORD.TLG.ORG. 140.174.122.23, >might put a small note at the top that says, "I'm changing my secondary >name server is all". Done. CC'ed you, just to prove it. %;-) >Ther eis absolutely no priority on this. Just cleaning up... I'll run >secondary here at wps until you tell me otherwise. There's no penalty >for me really except cluter which is already in place... just planning >ahead... Great idea... Now how are we going to handle all those requests when the Wired ad goes out in two weeks?... BTW, did you see my message from the other day about not being able to telnet directly to Wired?? I have always had this problem - I need to log in to the gateway machine first to get to Wired. This doesn't happen to any other destination. I think the problem is with my ifconfigs or with my routed settings. What should my netmask be? Below is a copy of /etc/netstart, if that helps at all. No hurry on this -- I've been living with it for months already -- but any insight you may have would be appreciated. Ciao- -jonathan- ****begin ramona.cyborganic.com:/etc/netstart************************ cyborganic> !m more /etc/netstart #!/bin/sh - # # @(#)netstart 5.9 (Berkeley) 3/30/91 # # These flags specify whether or not to run the daemons, # and the flags to run them with routedflags=-g timedflags=NO rwhod=NO rstatd=YES # NFSD_OPTS over-rides the default args for nfsd # NFSD_OPTS='-u 255.255.255.0,192.124.139.0,4 -t 255.255.255.0,192.124.139.0' # Set our local hostname (host.domain.com) hostname=ramona.cyborganic.com hostname $hostname # ----- Configure interfaces ----- # We have a SLIP link (sl0) to the outside world, an ethernet interface (we0) # to other machines in our domain, and the universal localhost (lo0). # Note that a lot of what you'd think of as "routing" is done by the # ifconfig's; by defining an interface and address (say 140.174.77.253) # and a netmask (255.255.255.0) routing to (in this case 140.174.77.XX) # is implicit. # intfc prot dev addr (gateway) netmask ifconfig we0 inet $hostname netmask 255.255.255.0 link0 ifconfig sl0 ramona.cyborganic.com portmaster netmask 255.255.255.0 link2 ifconfig lo0 inet localhost # (The BSDI SLIP driver accepts an optional field at the end; link0 enables # Van Jacobson compression; link1 suppress ICMP; link2 auto-enable V.J.) # ----- Add routing between interfaces ----- # The entire world, except our own domain, is reached via the SLIP link, # otherwise known as the "default" route. Add that first: route add default portmaster From tomj@fido.wps.com Mon Jan 31 10:02:43 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA01946; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 10:02:37 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA04449; Mon, 31 Jan 94 10:03:44 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA02984; Sun, 30 Jan 94 23:06:33 -0800 Received: from moon.nbn.com (nbn.com) by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11228; Sun, 30 Jan 94 23:06:22 PST Received: from localhost (jh@localhost) by moon.nbn.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) id XAA02629; Sun, 30 Jan 1994 23:05:56 -0800 From: jh@moon.nbn.com (John Harkin) Message-Id: <9401302305.ZM2627@moon.nbn.com> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 23:05:54 -0800 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (2.1.0 10/27/92) To: nacr@cygnus.com, admin@tlg.org Subject: 198.180.205.nacr Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O Did this NACR ever get sent in? I sent it in 1/20/94 but the backbone doesn't know about it yet. John ---- Network Announcement Change Request ---- NSFNET NACR Template Version 7.0 TLG Service The administrators of the following networks for which access is requested to the NSFNET backbone service agree that traffic from these networks that will transit the NSFNET backbone service complies with the "NSFNET BACKBONE SERVICES ACCEPTABLE USE POLICY" dated June 1992. See ftp.cygnus.com:/pub/tlg/help.template.net.tlg for further information on this template. %begin nsfnet nacr v7.0 netnum: 198.180.205.0 netname: ORBIT netcc: US orgname: ORBiT Software (USA) Inc. orgaddr: 505A San Marin Drive, Suite 200 orgcity: Novato orgstate: CA orgzip: 94945 orgcc: US orgtype: n bbone: T3 homeas: 2914 aslist: 1:1240 2:1800 aup: R action: A comment: %end nsfnet nacr -- John Harkin +1 415 472-1600 moon!jh jh@nbn.com postmaster@nbn.com North Bay Network - Direct Connect Internet for the North Bay From tomj@fido.wps.com Mon Jan 31 10:02:43 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA01942; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 10:02:34 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA04439; Mon, 31 Jan 94 10:03:40 -0800 Received: from cyborganic.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA02964; Sun, 30 Jan 94 22:58:10 -0800 Received: from dairyland.cyborganic.com by cyborganic (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA15026; Mon, 31 Jan 94 06:57:22 GMT Message-Id: <9401310657.AA15026@cyborganic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 22:58:13 -0800 To: hostmaster@internic.net From: Jonathan Steuer Subject: domain name registration Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O TO: HOSTMASTER@INTERNIC.NET I have just changed my secondary name server. Everything else is the same. Thanks- -jonathan- 1. Top-level domain: .com 2. Complete Domain Name: cyborganic.com 3a. Organization name: Cyborganic Media 3b. Organization address: 67 Ramona Avenue, San Francisco, CA 94103-2214 4. Date operational: 1 November 1993 Administrative Contact 5a. Handle (if known) : 5b. Name (Last, First) : Steuer, Jonathan 5c. Organization: Cyborganic Media 5d. Mail Address: 67 Ramona Avenue, San Francisco, CA 94103-2214 5e. Phone Number: +1.415.255.1120 5f. Net Mailbox : jonathan@cyborganic.com Technical and Zone Contact 6a. Handle (if known): 6b. Name (Last, First) : Steuer, Jonathan 6c. Organization: Cyborganic Media 6d. Mail Address: 67 Ramona Avenue, San Francisco, CA 94103-2214 6e. Phone Number: +1.415.255.1120 6f. Net Mailbox : jonathan@cyborganic.com (7) Domains must provide at least two independent servers on Government-sponsored networks that provide the domain service for translating names to addresses for hosts in this domain. Primary Server: HOSTNAME, NETADDRESS, HARDWARE, SOFTWARE 7a. Primary Server Hostname: ramona.cyborganic.com 7b. Primary Server Netaddress: 140.174.95.1 7c. Primary Server Hardware: Intel 486DX50 7d. Primary Server Software: BSD UNIX (8) The Secondary server information. 8a. Secondary Server Hostname: fnord.tlg.org 8b. Secondary Server Netaddress: 140.174.122.23 8c. Secondary Server Hardware: INTEL 8d. Secondary Server Software: BSD UNIX =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- / jonathan steuer / / wired magazine / cyborganic media / stanford communication dept. / / jonathan@cyborganic.com /h 415.255.1120/o 415.904.6457/f 415.255.8756/ From tomj@fido.wps.com Mon Jan 31 10:03:52 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA01952; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 10:03:48 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA04462; Mon, 31 Jan 94 10:04:55 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA04179; Mon, 31 Jan 94 08:25:15 -0800 Received: from mail.msm.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21769; Mon, 31 Jan 94 08:25:05 PST Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 8:25:02 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Merrell To: nacr@cygnus.com Cc: tom@wps.com Message-Id: <940131082502.629@mail.msm.com> Subject: NACR for Verisoft.Com's nets Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 17:23:32 PST From: Paul Sutter Message-Id: <9401150123.AA28508@guest.apple.com> To: GREG@mail.msm.com Subject: Re: Acceptable Use agreement To Whom It May Concern: Verisoft Corporation agrees to comply with the "ANS Acceptable Use Policy" for all traffic sent over the NSFnet. Paul Sutter Verisoft ---- Network Announcement Change Request ---- ANS NACR Template Version 2.0 TLG Service The networks listed below have subscribed to the ANS network attachment service and have agreed that their traffic will comply with the "ANS Acceptable Use Policy" as it may be amended from time to time. See ftp.cygnus.com:/pub/tlg/help.template.net.tlg for further information on this template. %begin ansnet nacr v2.0% netnum: 199.33.213 netname: NETBLK-VERISOFT netcc: US orgname: Verisoft Corporation orgaddr: 20421 Stevens Creek Blvd Suite 250 orgcity: Cupertino orgstate: CA orgzip: 95014 orgcc: US orgtype: C bbone: T3 homeas: 2914 aslist: 1:1240 2:1800 aup: R action: A comment: %end ansnet nacr% %begin ansnet nacr v2.0% netnum: 199.33.214 netname: NETBLK-VERISOFT netcc: US orgname: Verisoft Corporation orgaddr: 20421 Stevens Creek Blvd Suite 250 orgcity: Cupertino orgstate: CA orgzip: 95014 orgcc: US orgtype: C bbone: T3 homeas: 2914 aslist: 1:1240 2:1800 aup: R action: A comment: %end ansnet nacr% From tomj@fido.wps.com Mon Jan 31 10:03:56 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA01956; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 10:03:52 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA04469; Mon, 31 Jan 94 10:04:59 -0800 Received: from mail.msm.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA04180; Mon, 31 Jan 94 08:25:15 -0800 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 8:25:02 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Merrell To: nacr@cygnus.com Cc: tom@wps.com Message-Id: <940131082502.629@mail.msm.com> Subject: NACR for Verisoft.Com's nets Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 17:23:32 PST From: Paul Sutter Message-Id: <9401150123.AA28508@guest.apple.com> To: GREG@mail.msm.com Subject: Re: Acceptable Use agreement To Whom It May Concern: Verisoft Corporation agrees to comply with the "ANS Acceptable Use Policy" for all traffic sent over the NSFnet. Paul Sutter Verisoft ---- Network Announcement Change Request ---- ANS NACR Template Version 2.0 TLG Service The networks listed below have subscribed to the ANS network attachment service and have agreed that their traffic will comply with the "ANS Acceptable Use Policy" as it may be amended from time to time. See ftp.cygnus.com:/pub/tlg/help.template.net.tlg for further information on this template. %begin ansnet nacr v2.0% netnum: 199.33.213 netname: NETBLK-VERISOFT netcc: US orgname: Verisoft Corporation orgaddr: 20421 Stevens Creek Blvd Suite 250 orgcity: Cupertino orgstate: CA orgzip: 95014 orgcc: US orgtype: C bbone: T3 homeas: 2914 aslist: 1:1240 2:1800 aup: R action: A comment: %end ansnet nacr% %begin ansnet nacr v2.0% netnum: 199.33.214 netname: NETBLK-VERISOFT netcc: US orgname: Verisoft Corporation orgaddr: 20421 Stevens Creek Blvd Suite 250 orgcity: Cupertino orgstate: CA orgzip: 95014 orgcc: US orgtype: C bbone: T3 homeas: 2914 aslist: 1:1240 2:1800 aup: R action: A comment: %end ansnet nacr% From tomj@fido.wps.com Mon Jan 31 10:04:01 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA01960; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 10:03:57 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA04476; Mon, 31 Jan 94 10:05:03 -0800 Received: from mail.msm.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA04195; Mon, 31 Jan 94 08:29:40 -0800 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 8:29:33 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Merrell To: tom@wps.com Cc: GREG@mail.msm.com, grossman@cygnus.com Message-Id: <940131082933.629@mail.msm.com> Subject: Looking for an update on those two new nets Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O Tom, I know that you aren't eager to have yet more routes added to the tables, but I've got Verisoft all setup and waiting for full connectivity. If you could give me some idea when I might expect to see 199.33.214 and 199.33.214 added to the tables, then I can let them know what to expect. Thanks, Greg From tomj@fido.wps.com Mon Jan 31 10:05:10 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA01964; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 10:05:03 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA04489; Mon, 31 Jan 94 10:06:10 -0800 Received: from naples.gain.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA04356; Mon, 31 Jan 94 09:21:36 -0800 Received: from cayenne (cayenne.gain.com) by naples.gain.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Gain-Naples-Brent-920510) id AA21376 to tomj@wps.com; Mon, 31 Jan 94 09:21:29 PST Received: from monterey.gain.com by cayenne (4.1/SMI-4.1/Gain-Cayenne-drm-011893) id AA00715; Mon, 31 Jan 94 09:21:27 PST Received: from monterey (localhost) by monterey.gain.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA05175; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:21:15 +0800 Message-Id: <9401311721.AA05175@monterey.gain.com> To: tomj@wps.com Subject: new connection Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:21:14 -0800 From: Tom Fredericks Content-Length: 176 Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: OR Where do I get the FORM for new connections? Thanks, Tom... ------------ Tom Fredericks Systems Administrator -- Gain Technology, Inc. tomf@gain.com (415) 813-8395 From daemon Mon Jan 31 10:19:20 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA02003; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 10:19:19 -0800 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 10:19:19 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: host not found) Message-Id: <199401311819.KAA02003@tlg.org> To: flesh Status: OR ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- nitin@cybase.com (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 501 nitin@cybase.com... 550 Host unknown (Name server: host not found) ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA02001; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 10:19:19 -0800 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 10:19:19 -0800 From: flesh (Flesh) Message-Id: <199401311819.KAA02001@tlg.org> To: nitin@cybase.com Subject: your phone call and request Hello This is a follow up to the call that you made, in regards to an internet connection with tlg.org. The infromation can be recieved by emailing info@tlg.org. This will generate up all the proper info, and what is all needed for a connection. Thank you for calling! From admin@tlg.org Mon Jan 31 12:41:58 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA02194; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 12:41:41 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwbgs08709; Mon, 31 Jan 94 15:42:49 -0500 Received: from fenchurch.MIT.EDU by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17472; Mon, 31 Jan 94 12:42:42 PST Received: from localhost by fenchurch.MIT.EDU id PAA13164; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 15:40:49 -0500 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 15:40:47 EST From: "M. Strata Rose" Reply-To: strata@fenchurch.MIT.EDU To: private-garden@cygnus.com Cc: strata@fenchurch.MIT.EDU X-Tlg-Info: The Little Garden Network-- affordable Internet today! X-Tlg-Info: Finger info@tlg.org for info, speeds from 14400 to 56K & T1 X-Tlg-Info: San Francisco - Santa Cruz - Berkeley - San Jose areas Subject: meeting notes Message-Id: Status: O I feel officially silly-- after typing in the meeting minutes a few days ago, I realized I hadn't actually *posted* them. Luckily I remembered this before calling Tom and asking what was wrong with the mailing list....anyway, here they are, I apologize for the delay. Tim, John, Tom, and others, feel free to correct or clarify my summations and/or paraphrasings of what you actually said, I was taking brief notes and trying to keep up with the flow of conversation and topic-jumping. This also makes them somewhat disjoint topically, but I felt that keeping the meeting flow in the transcript was more important than trying to group topics after the fact. Pull up the message with the posted agenda in another buffer and you can see what we were trying to stick to... Notes from TLG Meeting at 444 Market St. POP, 1/19/94 Tim Pozar, TomJ, & John G. suggest $800/mo as T1 colocation. Hubbub, folks start talking about IP redirect services. TomJ runs mini-service ("scamatron") for IP-redirect stuff via telnet. John Hargin [Harkins?] is TLG customer who is doing colocation, has own rate structure. Discussion as to saving space in crowded POP. Strata offers possible second POP location in Sunnyvale. Mark from WIRED mentions their expansion plans, have budgeted space for colocation facilities. Tim & co point out that physical site of 444 Market is very security conscious and that colocation would have access problems regardless of space, only very few people on access list now and they don't have time to babysit colocated machines. Various arguments on topic of "I want to colocate for reliability and won't use the full bandwidth, shouldn't I be able to pay less". Metering/analysis software need brought up by various. John mentions HNMS, Hierarchical Network Mgmt System, could do metering we need. Company is negotiating with Cygnus for support of HNMS, it will be released to public if they work out a contract. John will file FOIA to get it otherwise (assuming it looks interesting enough). WRT wider pipes and response from Toad POP folks, John offers to widen pipe to T1 to Toad for better latency if he can get Toad POP community to help with the $500/mo difference. Response from Toad folks present is enthusiastic, looks like it will happen. Given that, there is some amount of space w/TLG member physical access for colocation on T1 ether, talk to John for details as to how that's progressing and what the availability is. T1 colocation rate still applies, BTW. Offical thanks to KKSF (Tim Pozar's employers) for donating ~$3K of vital wiring & etc Stuff to the setup at 444 Market; they will have SLIP connection with fees waived for some considerable time approximating their donation to the cause. TLG info business cards passed out, Rich Morin donated his extra cardstock from his business printing and had his printer do up all his extra sheets with the card design. Contact him to get a handfull to give out to interested parties, still has sheets that haven't been cut to card-size yet. NNTP servers: newsfeeds are our primary traffic on TLG in the opinion of those who've been watching our traffic, lots of it going down skinny pipes. John Harkins has NNTP service for nominal fee to TLG members, much less than UUNET. Possible Cygnus donation of Sparc 1+ for NNTP server mentioned, John G. is upgrading hoptoad. Edward Elhauge is interested in setting up Garden-wide NNTP on a fee basis. General agreement that having an NNTP server on each POP would be desirable to keep traffic of leaf sites local to POP. Bill Custer agrees to organize 814 University NNTP server, Edward E. & Fen will organize Toad NNTP server. People in either of those POP communities should get in touch with those folks to see what they can do to help or donate in the way of time/materials-- they're organizing a volunteer effort, not committing to doing it singlehandedly. The 814 University POP is now moving to the TLG "pay your own POP" model; it has been subsidized for a while now. Basic arrangement similar to Toad's-- leased line is paid by TLG, 56K rate of $325/mo is paid by POP Responsible Party/Group, TLG gives them $10 kickback for each 14400 connection at POP. Dollar amounts paid by individuals at 814 will not differ by more than a few bucks per person after conversion says TomJ. John G. asks assembled members for support for conversion, general assent. Bandwidth issues for usage-based rates comes up yet again, from discussion of whether 814 University folks are using more than their "fair share" since they have multiple machines on POP-local ethernet. Various folks draw formal attention to "are we growth-based or do we parcel out bits grudgingly?"-- ie do we assume we will keep adding T1 connectivity from the outside if we need the bandwidth? [yes] We need to set some baseline rates for "measured rate", ie you should be able to get a wide pipe and not use the full width, but be charged for a combination of bit usage and latency. More discussion of whether or not measuring will put noticeable drag on the net, nothing conclusive. Coming up with the abovementioned charging model would also facilitate POP startup, since folks could pay to have a wider pipe than they would use put in for future expansion, grow more slowly and need a smaller group to spawn a POP. Various pricing models proposed, ranging from John G. 64K steps to latency baserate + stepped usage. Issue needs more exploration, dropped for this meeting. POP Security-- right now anyone could compromise a single host and sniff passwords for anyone elseon TLG net, this is Not Good. Stu, TomJ, Tim, John G are setting up router ring topology and bridging POP-local traffic so that the routers don't touch cross-POP hosts, each router touches only other routers who in turn talk to local POP hosts. Good idea, general kudos to them. Now a WWW (World Wide Web) server on TLG.ORG, PC-based BSD unix box; TLG members running Web servers can put a pointer URL on TLG.ORG "Member Web Servers" page, contact TomJ or Tim P about this. March issue of WIRED will carry TLG ad, will run every other month. TLG.ORG is mostly DNS, admin info, the mailing lists. Stu, TomJ, Tim, and Tom's new intern Flesh have accounts, tlg-ops. Dave Sharnoff mentions he gateways his email to newsgroup format on his machine, talk about need for downstream/POP based mailing lists, hard to contact neighbors on local POP when TLG.ORG is out if that's where all the mailing lists are! Kee points out that TomJ has made sublists but we still need per-POP access lists so people can offload local POP maint and make POPS more independent. John G mentioned Randy Bush is doing profiles/lists of toasternets, contact him (Randy) if you want info or have listings. Will be published in paper and HTML/Web served. Tim Pozar needs 300M drive & Adaptec controller for 444 Market, spontaneous hat passing nets $350. Nice work & a good feeling... Tim P. is working with McGraw-Hill on a pending 56K connection in San Mateo to TLG. He has asked them about colocation of TLG equipment to make a San Mateo POP but they are wary. Peter & Tim will investigate if Frame Relay makes sense for this pipe, McGraw is apparently in or near a building loaded with net-goodies. Various folk point out that random closet rental can bridge TLG service gap between Palo Alto and SF. There is concern about McGraw & another potential TLG customer sucking down "too much" bandwidth. John G talks a little about how you buy latency with a T1, not stricly bandwith, but still there are no guarantees on speed. We [TLG] have never guaranteed constant bandwidth, ie 56K pushed to 56K 7x24, but instead worked out varying rates so that we approximate bandwidth by steps (14400, 56K, T1) with rates that let the bigger connections take a bigger share of the cost. Dave Sharnoff mentions WRT latency, he chunks his NNTP data down to the smallest packet size he can to keep decent latency on simultaneous typing/telnet access on his link, suggests it as a technique to improve 14400 connection performance. John G & Tim suggest that he is dragging down overall network performance by doing this, don't recommend it but no clear consensus on what the effect would be if more folks were doing it. TomJ talks about statistical multiplexing briefly. TomJ: wants help by skillset. Fen suggests mailing list for potential helpers. Tim P offers gopher list for helpers skills. Peter suggest finger account for help@tlg.org w/contact list, also setup a help mailback of info using the vacation program. Tim P mentions SJ POP, send potentials to TomJ, we would like to start one. NOS boxes-- only one left, TomJ praises the Livingston boxes for running smoothly once set up, notes that the documentation was hell though. More general discussion of problem solving-- several people brought up a suggestion that we should do PacBell-like cost recovery on troubleshooting. If the problem turns out to be on your end, charge time and materials for looking into it. Need more discussion on how to implement this. Trouble tickets: we need some kind of system; Cygnus has one that we could adapt, and NEARNET has a free FTP-able one as well. Roger Klorese commits to looking into various systems on our behalf. Thanks Roger! TomJ does virtual intro of Randy Mills aka Flesh, his new "intern" (Flesh couldn't make it due to a last-minute schedule conflict). Tom has budgeted $100/mo at first, and mentions that both his and Flesh's stipends should go up as TLG starts breaking even/getting ahead. Flesh has been educating himself in PC tech and BBS stuff, is sharp and interested. TomJ has set him up with a connection on the maintainance port of the 444 Market router w/2400 baud TCP/IP, will upgrade to 9600 when he can scrounge modems. Fen donates pair of 9600 baud modems on the spot, cool. TomJ comments as an aside that he's enthused about getting more folks like Flesh involved with TLG, people from the non-techy side of the world, punks, artists and the like. The Spreadsheet: Tom has new estimates, so spreadsheet at meeting is gloomier than real picture. He observes that we seem to be growing by approx $500/mo. We have to spend $2400 to start up new T1's, $600 for new 14400 (TLG buying ports for new customers to connect to). TomJ has done approximations of a step-up curve where cost/resources/new members are tied into steps where we have to expand. Tom T mentions that we should encourage folks to upgrade their SLIP/PPP connections when the new modem chipsets are widely available in May, as it leverages our current ports into higher revenue without additional cost to us. More grumbling/concerns over large customers (corporations, network services) potentially "sucking dry" the pipe. TomJ points out that all of TLG averaged less than 56K over 5 min spikes in September. John G points out that the entire Internet was on T1 in 1993, w/many 56K interconnects, and that the arpanet/Internet was on 56K for years. Slight digression into T1 costs of our competition, Tim P says Barrnet is cheapest, $600+/month for T1 but (gotcha) no resale. Mini-history review of Barrnet decision, went to no resale because of "predatory" ANS routing pricing for downstream resellers (figure of $55K/year/service provider-reseller was mentioned). Tom's salary: nothing really decided except that TomJ deserves more money and less hours, and that Flesh's presence and a help-list will alleviate the latter complaint but that we need more members and to start running more in the black to work on the $$ issue. John G reminds folks that there's also the matter of eventually repaying his $10K TLG starter loan at more than $40/month, too. WRT TomJ's hours and offloading, we will try to formalize some of the written docs that he has done and put them where they are easier to get to. TomJ has already set up some docs on tlg.org for FTP, we will put up HTML (Web) and probably gopher stuff too. Strata volunteers to edit and otherwise help assemble docs. TimP has partial book/manual, as does TomJ. Rich suggests monthly open house/class for TLG newbies. General enthusiasm for this idea. Peter says have them bring in their machine and just *set it up* as part of the class/workshop, and/or put together a kit like the one the WELL sells for new members, sales of the kit can help with TLG cash problem as well. Robert points out that SW developers and the phone company slam folks for asking questions and taking tech time if the answers are in the manuals/provided docs, maybe we need to do this too (cost recovery again). Will Kreth mentions BAIL (Bay Area Internet Literacy?) and their toasternet classes, they have a committed space reservation that they don't fully use and may be open to letting TLG host/cohost classes in the space. Will will post BAIL info to TLG list, also bail-list-request@well.sf.ca.us for info on their classes. Send mail to strata@fenchurch.mit.edu re: skills you have that might be helpful to TLG members getting connected and/or maintaining their connection. List ones you are comfortable with volunteering to newbies as well as more experienced folks, and don't list things you know that you consider a potential waste of your limited time, ie for a routing expert to be spending an hour on the phone telling someone how to configure their modem. Strata will collate and post a list, as well as periodic updates as we get new members. That's basically it, folks... ************************************************************************* M. Strata Rose Unix & Network Consultant, SysAdmin & Internet Information Virtual City Network (tm) strata@virtual.net | strata@hybrid.com | strata@fenchurch.mit.edu From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Jan 31 13:03:23 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA02195; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 12:41:43 -0800 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 12:41:43 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199401312041.NAA02195@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: OR ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-cygnus-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 451 will@wired.com (Will Kreth),andrew@wired.com (Andrew Waegel)... reply: read error from wired.com. >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 tlg-admin@Sunnyside.COM (Sunnyside)... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA02194; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 12:41:41 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwbgs08709; Mon, 31 Jan 94 15:42:49 -0500 Received: from fenchurch.MIT.EDU by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17472; Mon, 31 Jan 94 12:42:42 PST Received: from localhost by fenchurch.MIT.EDU id PAA13164; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 15:40:49 -0500 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 15:40:47 EST From: "M. Strata Rose" Reply-To: strata@fenchurch.MIT.EDU To: private-garden@cygnus.com Cc: strata@fenchurch.MIT.EDU X-Tlg-Info: The Little Garden Network-- affordable Internet today! X-Tlg-Info: Finger info@tlg.org for info, speeds from 14400 to 56K & T1 X-Tlg-Info: San Francisco - Santa Cruz - Berkeley - San Jose areas Subject: meeting notes Message-Id: I feel officially silly-- after typing in the meeting minutes a few days ago, I realized I hadn't actually *posted* them. Luckily I remembered this before calling Tom and asking what was wrong with the mailing list....anyway, here they are, I apologize for the delay. Tim, John, Tom, and others, feel free to correct or clarify my summations and/or paraphrasings of what you actually said, I was taking brief notes and trying to keep up with the flow of conversation and topic-jumping. This also makes them somewhat disjoint topically, but I felt that keeping the meeting flow in the transcript was more important than trying to group topics after the fact. Pull up the message with the posted agenda in another buffer and you can see what we were trying to stick to... Notes from TLG Meeting at 444 Market St. POP, 1/19/94 Tim Pozar, TomJ, & John G. suggest $800/mo as T1 colocation. Hubbub, folks start talking about IP redirect services. TomJ runs mini-service ("scamatron") for IP-redirect stuff via telnet. John Hargin [Harkins?] is TLG customer who is doing colocation, has own rate structure. Discussion as to saving space in crowded POP. Strata offers possible second POP location in Sunnyvale. Mark from WIRED mentions their expansion plans, have budgeted space for colocation facilities. Tim & co point out that physical site of 444 Market is very security conscious and that colocation would have access problems regardless of space, only very few people on access list now and they don't have time to babysit colocated machines. Various arguments on topic of "I want to colocate for reliability and won't use the full bandwidth, shouldn't I be able to pay less". Metering/analysis software need brought up by various. John mentions HNMS, Hierarchical Network Mgmt System, could do metering we need. Company is negotiating with Cygnus for support of HNMS, it will be released to public if they work out a contract. John will file FOIA to get it otherwise (assuming it looks interesting enough). WRT wider pipes and response from Toad POP folks, John offers to widen pipe to T1 to Toad for better latency if he can get Toad POP community to help with the $500/mo difference. Response from Toad folks present is enthusiastic, looks like it will happen. Given that, there is some amount of space w/TLG member physical access for colocation on T1 ether, talk to John for details as to how that's progressing and what the availability is. T1 colocation rate still applies, BTW. Offical thanks to KKSF (Tim Pozar's employers) for donating ~$3K of vital wiring & etc Stuff to the setup at 444 Market; they will have SLIP connection with fees waived for some considerable time approximating their donation to the cause. TLG info business cards passed out, Rich Morin donated his extra cardstock from his business printing and had his printer do up all his extra sheets with the card design. Contact him to get a handfull to give out to interested parties, still has sheets that haven't been cut to card-size yet. NNTP servers: newsfeeds are our primary traffic on TLG in the opinion of those who've been watching our traffic, lots of it going down skinny pipes. John Harkins has NNTP service for nominal fee to TLG members, much less than UUNET. Possible Cygnus donation of Sparc 1+ for NNTP server mentioned, John G. is upgrading hoptoad. Edward Elhauge is interested in setting up Garden-wide NNTP on a fee basis. General agreement that having an NNTP server on each POP would be desirable to keep traffic of leaf sites local to POP. Bill Custer agrees to organize 814 University NNTP server, Edward E. & Fen will organize Toad NNTP server. People in either of those POP communities should get in touch with those folks to see what they can do to help or donate in the way of time/materials-- they're organizing a volunteer effort, not committing to doing it singlehandedly. The 814 University POP is now moving to the TLG "pay your own POP" model; it has been subsidized for a while now. Basic arrangement similar to Toad's-- leased line is paid by TLG, 56K rate of $325/mo is paid by POP Responsible Party/Group, TLG gives them $10 kickback for each 14400 connection at POP. Dollar amounts paid by individuals at 814 will not differ by more than a few bucks per person after conversion says TomJ. John G. asks assembled members for support for conversion, general assent. Bandwidth issues for usage-based rates comes up yet again, from discussion of whether 814 University folks are using more than their "fair share" since they have multiple machines on POP-local ethernet. Various folks draw formal attention to "are we growth-based or do we parcel out bits grudgingly?"-- ie do we assume we will keep adding T1 connectivity from the outside if we need the bandwidth? [yes] We need to set some baseline rates for "measured rate", ie you should be able to get a wide pipe and not use the full width, but be charged for a combination of bit usage and latency. More discussion of whether or not measuring will put noticeable drag on the net, nothing conclusive. Coming up with the abovementioned charging model would also facilitate POP startup, since folks could pay to have a wider pipe than they would use put in for future expansion, grow more slowly and need a smaller group to spawn a POP. Various pricing models proposed, ranging from John G. 64K steps to latency baserate + stepped usage. Issue needs more exploration, dropped for this meeting. POP Security-- right now anyone could compromise a single host and sniff passwords for anyone elseon TLG net, this is Not Good. Stu, TomJ, Tim, John G are setting up router ring topology and bridging POP-local traffic so that the routers don't touch cross-POP hosts, each router touches only other routers who in turn talk to local POP hosts. Good idea, general kudos to them. Now a WWW (World Wide Web) server on TLG.ORG, PC-based BSD unix box; TLG members running Web servers can put a pointer URL on TLG.ORG "Member Web Servers" page, contact TomJ or Tim P about this. March issue of WIRED will carry TLG ad, will run every other month. TLG.ORG is mostly DNS, admin info, the mailing lists. Stu, TomJ, Tim, and Tom's new intern Flesh have accounts, tlg-ops. Dave Sharnoff mentions he gateways his email to newsgroup format on his machine, talk about need for downstream/POP based mailing lists, hard to contact neighbors on local POP when TLG.ORG is out if that's where all the mailing lists are! Kee points out that TomJ has made sublists but we still need per-POP access lists so people can offload local POP maint and make POPS more independent. John G mentioned Randy Bush is doing profiles/lists of toasternets, contact him (Randy) if you want info or have listings. Will be published in paper and HTML/Web served. Tim Pozar needs 300M drive & Adaptec controller for 444 Market, spontaneous hat passing nets $350. Nice work & a good feeling... Tim P. is working with McGraw-Hill on a pending 56K connection in San Mateo to TLG. He has asked them about colocation of TLG equipment to make a San Mateo POP but they are wary. Peter & Tim will investigate if Frame Relay makes sense for this pipe, McGraw is apparently in or near a building loaded with net-goodies. Various folk point out that random closet rental can bridge TLG service gap between Palo Alto and SF. There is concern about McGraw & another potential TLG customer sucking down "too much" bandwidth. John G talks a little about how you buy latency with a T1, not stricly bandwith, but still there are no guarantees on speed. We [TLG] have never guaranteed constant bandwidth, ie 56K pushed to 56K 7x24, but instead worked out varying rates so that we approximate bandwidth by steps (14400, 56K, T1) with rates that let the bigger connections take a bigger share of the cost. Dave Sharnoff mentions WRT latency, he chunks his NNTP data down to the smallest packet size he can to keep decent latency on simultaneous typing/telnet access on his link, suggests it as a technique to improve 14400 connection performance. John G & Tim suggest that he is dragging down overall network performance by doing this, don't recommend it but no clear consensus on what the effect would be if more folks were doing it. TomJ talks about statistical multiplexing briefly. TomJ: wants help by skillset. Fen suggests mailing list for potential helpers. Tim P offers gopher list for helpers skills. Peter suggest finger account for help@tlg.org w/contact list, also setup a help mailback of info using the vacation program. Tim P mentions SJ POP, send potentials to TomJ, we would like to start one. NOS boxes-- only one left, TomJ praises the Livingston boxes for running smoothly once set up, notes that the documentation was hell though. More general discussion of problem solving-- several people brought up a suggestion that we should do PacBell-like cost recovery on troubleshooting. If the problem turns out to be on your end, charge time and materials for looking into it. Need more discussion on how to implement this. Trouble tickets: we need some kind of system; Cygnus has one that we could adapt, and NEARNET has a free FTP-able one as well. Roger Klorese commits to looking into various systems on our behalf. Thanks Roger! TomJ does virtual intro of Randy Mills aka Flesh, his new "intern" (Flesh couldn't make it due to a last-minute schedule conflict). Tom has budgeted $100/mo at first, and mentions that both his and Flesh's stipends should go up as TLG starts breaking even/getting ahead. Flesh has been educating himself in PC tech and BBS stuff, is sharp and interested. TomJ has set him up with a connection on the maintainance port of the 444 Market router w/2400 baud TCP/IP, will upgrade to 9600 when he can scrounge modems. Fen donates pair of 9600 baud modems on the spot, cool. TomJ comments as an aside that he's enthused about getting more folks like Flesh involved with TLG, people from the non-techy side of the world, punks, artists and the like. The Spreadsheet: Tom has new estimates, so spreadsheet at meeting is gloomier than real picture. He observes that we seem to be growing by approx $500/mo. We have to spend $2400 to start up new T1's, $600 for new 14400 (TLG buying ports for new customers to connect to). TomJ has done approximations of a step-up curve where cost/resources/new members are tied into steps where we have to expand. Tom T mentions that we should encourage folks to upgrade their SLIP/PPP connections when the new modem chipsets are widely available in May, as it leverages our current ports into higher revenue without additional cost to us. More grumbling/concerns over large customers (corporations, network services) potentially "sucking dry" the pipe. TomJ points out that all of TLG averaged less than 56K over 5 min spikes in September. John G points out that the entire Internet was on T1 in 1993, w/many 56K interconnects, and that the arpanet/Internet was on 56K for years. Slight digression into T1 costs of our competition, Tim P says Barrnet is cheapest, $600+/month for T1 but (gotcha) no resale. Mini-history review of Barrnet decision, went to no resale because of "predatory" ANS routing pricing for downstream resellers (figure of $55K/year/service provider-reseller was mentioned). Tom's salary: nothing really decided except that TomJ deserves more money and less hours, and that Flesh's presence and a help-list will alleviate the latter complaint but that we need more members and to start running more in the black to work on the $$ issue. John G reminds folks that there's also the matter of eventually repaying his $10K TLG starter loan at more than $40/month, too. WRT TomJ's hours and offloading, we will try to formalize some of the written docs that he has done and put them where they are easier to get to. TomJ has already set up some docs on tlg.org for FTP, we will put up HTML (Web) and probably gopher stuff too. Strata volunteers to edit and otherwise help assemble docs. TimP has partial book/manual, as does TomJ. Rich suggests monthly open house/class for TLG newbies. General enthusiasm for this idea. Peter says have them bring in their machine and just *set it up* as part of the class/workshop, and/or put together a kit like the one the WELL sells for new members, sales of the kit can help with TLG cash problem as well. Robert points out that SW developers and the phone company slam folks for asking questions and taking tech time if the answers are in the manuals/provided docs, maybe we need to do this too (cost recovery again). Will Kreth mentions BAIL (Bay Area Internet Literacy?) and their toasternet classes, they have a committed space reservation that they don't fully use and may be open to letting TLG host/cohost classes in the space. Will will post BAIL info to TLG list, also bail-list-request@well.sf.ca.us for info on their classes. Send mail to strata@fenchurch.mit.edu re: skills you have that might be helpful to TLG members getting connected and/or maintaining their connection. List ones you are comfortable with volunteering to newbies as well as more experienced folks, and don't list things you know that you consider a potential waste of your limited time, ie for a routing expert to be spending an hour on the phone telling someone how to configure their modem. Strata will collate and post a list, as well as periodic updates as we get new members. That's basically it, folks... ************************************************************************* M. Strata Rose Unix & Network Consultant, SysAdmin & Internet Information Virtual City Network (tm) strata@virtual.net | strata@hybrid.com | strata@fenchurch.mit.edu From info@wired.com Mon Jan 31 14:30:01 1994 Received: from gw.wired.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA02281; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 14:29:57 -0800 Received: from [140.174.72.133] by gw.wired.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA01382; Mon, 31 Jan 94 14:31:03 -0800 Message-Id: <9401312231.AA01382@wired.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 14:34:37 -0800 To: admin@tlg.org From: info@wired.com (Wired General Information) Subject: Person wants your email address Status: OR >X-POP3-Rcpt: info@gw.wired.com >From: fernando@ubik.satlink.net (Fernando Bonsembiante) >Reply-To: fernando@ubik.satlink.net >Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 12:57:34 -0200 >Subject: Wired subscription >To: info@wired.com >Organization: Virus Report - Ramos Mejia - Argentina > > I've sent my subscription via snail-mail, and I would like to know if it >was processed. It was to my name, Fernando Bonsembiante. > > Also I would need to know Tom Jennings' e-mail address, I know he is >working with you, and I need to send him an important message > >Saludos, Fernando (fernando@ubik.satlink.net) > >If you think communication is all talk, you havent't been listening. > (Ashleigh Brilliant) > >{ Fernando Bonsembiante } >{ Guemes 160 dto 2 Tel: (54-1) 654-0459 } >{ Ramos Mejia (1704) Fidonet: 4:901/303 } >{ Republica Argentina Internet: fernando@ubik.satlink.net } > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Will.Kreth++++Online.Ambassador++++info@wired.com WIRED.Magazine++544++2nd.St.+++SF.CA++94107++USA +1-415-904-0660+[vox]++++++++1-415-904-0669+[fax] =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From stu@shell.portal.com Tue Feb 1 06:14:51 1994 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id GAA02981; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 06:14:45 -0800 Received: from jobe.shell.portal.com (jobe.shell.portal.com [156.151.1.104]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.4/8.6.4-1.13) with ESMTP id GAA29676 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 06:17:00 -0800 Received: from DialupEudora (localhost.portal.com [127.0.0.1]) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) with SMTP id GAA19407 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 06:16:53 -0800 Message-Id: <199402011416.GAA19407@jobe.shell.portal.com> X-Sender: stu@127.0.0.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 06:20:33 -0800 To: info@admin.tlg.rg.net From: stu@shell.portal.com (Stu Jeffery) Subject: Cheap PPP/SLIP internet connection Status: OR Please send detail on SF Bay Area, cheap PPP/SLIP internet connection. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | Stu Jeffery Internet: stu@shell.portal.com | | 1072 Seena Ave. voice: 415-966-8199 | | Los Altos, CA. 94024 fax: 415-966-8199 | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From barbose@netcom.com Tue Feb 1 10:37:59 1994 Received: from mail.netcom.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA03277; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 10:37:52 -0800 Received: from localhost by mail.netcom.com (8.6.4/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id KAA27187; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 10:40:11 -0800 From: barbose@netcom.com (Jeff Barbose) Message-Id: <199402011840.KAA27187@mail.netcom.com> Subject: Info wanted To: info@admin.tlg.rg.net Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 10:40:08 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 458 Status: O I wanted some info on cheap internet (PPP or compressed PPP) connections in the SF Bay Area. -- Jeff Barbose ... barbose@netcom.com ... livin' and lovin in Baghdad-by-the-Bay ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Past and Future? Yin and Yang? Donny and Marie?" -- Mona Ramsey, from _More Tales of the City_ by Armistead Maupin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tomj@fido.wps.com Tue Feb 1 12:01:12 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA03335; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 12:01:09 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA08343; Tue, 1 Feb 94 12:02:49 -0800 Received: from tigger.jvnc.net by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA07492; Tue, 1 Feb 94 05:26:21 -0800 Received: from [192.67.238.218] (exit14-tty18.jvnc.net) by tigger.jvnc.net with SMTP id AA26169 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for tomj@wps.com); Tue, 1 Feb 1994 08:26:01 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 08:26:01 -0500 Message-Id: <199402011326.AA26169@tigger.jvnc.net> X-Sender: softlock@tigger.jvnc.net (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tomj@wps.com (Tom Jennings) From: schull@SoftLock.com (Jon Schull) Subject: Re: information... (fwd >Internet connectivity for cheap, no restrictions including reselling... > I'd like some of that, and Rochester sure needs it. What's the deal? ============================================================================= Jonathan Schull, Ph.D., President, SoftLock Services Inc. Schull@SoftLock.com 963 East Ave. #1, Rochester, NY 14607-2251 716-242-0348 (voice/fax) ============================================================================= For info about SoftLock Services (400 lines)....Email IntroLong@SoftLock.com For info about SoftLock DOS Document Toolkit....Email SLDocKit@SoftLock.com For info about FlopKey for DOS..................Email FlopKey@SoftLock.com For info about Zipit for the Macintosh..........Email Zipit@SoftLock.com ============================================================================ = From admin@tlg.org Tue Feb 1 12:29:03 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA03372; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 12:28:57 -0800 From: gnu@toad.com Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwbkk21868; Tue, 1 Feb 94 15:30:32 -0500 Received: from toad.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15489; Tue, 1 Feb 94 12:30:29 PST Received: from localhost by toad.com id AA23808; Tue, 1 Feb 94 12:30:27 PST Message-Id: <9402012030.AA23808@toad.com> To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Alternet stutters a bit Date: Tue, 01 Feb 94 12:30:26 -0800 Status: O It's probably nice having a 55-Mbit ATM backbone -- when it works. John From: Dan Brown ... Have been trying to archie it, but... have been having difficulties with getting out to the net via UUNET, supposedly they have been having troubles with their ATM backbone, and occasionally we can't get to ANS, etc... GRRRR. later. Dan --- The views expressed in this message are mine, not EFF's. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dan Brown brown@eff.org Sysadmin for The Electronic Frontier Foundation. Join EFF! For information about membership, send mail to eff@eff.org. From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Feb 1 12:46:14 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA03373; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 12:28:58 -0800 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 12:28:58 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199402012028.MAA03373@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-cygnus-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 tlg-admin@Sunnyside.COM (Sunnyside)... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA03372; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 12:28:57 -0800 From: gnu@toad.com Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwbkk21868; Tue, 1 Feb 94 15:30:32 -0500 Received: from toad.com by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15489; Tue, 1 Feb 94 12:30:29 PST Received: from localhost by toad.com id AA23808; Tue, 1 Feb 94 12:30:27 PST Message-Id: <9402012030.AA23808@toad.com> To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Alternet stutters a bit Date: Tue, 01 Feb 94 12:30:26 -0800 It's probably nice having a 55-Mbit ATM backbone -- when it works. John From: Dan Brown ... Have been trying to archie it, but... have been having difficulties with getting out to the net via UUNET, supposedly they have been having troubles with their ATM backbone, and occasionally we can't get to ANS, etc... GRRRR. later. Dan --- The views expressed in this message are mine, not EFF's. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dan Brown brown@eff.org Sysadmin for The Electronic Frontier Foundation. Join EFF! For information about membership, send mail to eff@eff.org. From maryp43597@aol.com Tue Feb 1 12:49:11 1994 Received: from mailgate.prod.aol.net by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA03420; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 12:49:05 -0800 From: maryp43597@aol.com Received: by mailgate.prod.aol.net (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA22304; Tue, 1 Feb 94 15:55:41 -0500 X-Mailer: America Online Mailer Sender: "maryp43597" Message-Id: <9402011555.tn179430@aol.com> To: info@tlg.org Date: Tue, 01 Feb 94 15:55:24 EST Subject: information Status: O I am an individual Mac user in Palo Alto. I'd like info on dial-up SLIP or PPP accounts--what is available, what it costs, etc. I have a US Robotics 14,400 bis modem. Many thanks! Mary Pauly 323-8275 From tomj Tue Feb 1 12:55:26 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA03450; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 12:55:23 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012055.MAA03450@tlg.org> Subject: Re: PPP access To: sfollmer@cdp.igc.org (Steve Follmer) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 12:55:22 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <199401270710.XAA07572@cdp.igc.org> from "Steve Follmer" at Jan 26, 94 11:10:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1267 Status: O We don't sell "shell accounts", nor anything with any sort of user interface, whatsoever. We sell raw IP, only. While we certainly do provide PPP for $70/mo, what you'd get is a connection to the net -- no news, no nutin'. Most TLG members have hosts attached 24 hrs a day, with softwar that provides basic services (telnet, ftp, news, etc) such as unix. I may be wrong (tell me if so!) I think what you need is a very stripped down shell that lets you PPP, and stores your email until you retrieve it (with Eudora, etc), and has a repository for news, etc... > > Dear tomj@wps.com > > I've been using the internet from my mac and I'm hooked. > But I need a better interface. So, this is what I'm looking for: > > I want dial-up PPP access at 14.4 V.32bis. I understand that PPP is better > than SLIP. I want access to all the newsgroups. I want it to be a local > call from 510-601 prefix. I want to use it 20 hours a month. > > Can you do this and what are all the costs? > > I think there may be alot of people like me who don't want to spend $300 > and install phone lines just to use it 20 hours a month. Can you > accomodate us? > > Douglas: can barn help me? > > -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 12:58:58 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id MAA03464; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 12:58:56 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012058.MAA03464@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Packet Radio Internet Link To: Aaron_Morse@NeXT.COM (Aaron Morse) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 12:58:55 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401140250.AA26247@femail.NeXT.COM> from "Aaron Morse" at Jan 13, 94 06:50:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1810 Status: O > Here's the situation. I live on a sailboat, and sometime in the next two > to three years I'm going to go sailing around the world. Thing is, I don't > want to do it without internet access if it can be avoided. I want my > email/usenet/ftp, know what I mean? :-) Radio connections are in fact very limited. And expensive. And you flatly won't be able to get a system under $10,000-$20,000 that will let you have "IP" from anywhere on the planet. (Satellite systems can do that in theory, but it's far from simple in practice.) And amateur radio won't let you do anything that looks like "commerce" which most Internet stuff looks like. TLG provides IP connectivity to the Internet, and nothing else. You'll have to go to radio people to find about radio... > > >From the limited amount I've learned it sounds like packet radio is the > way to fly although it will be a slow connection by today's standards - as > low as 300 baud, half duplex. Since sailing is a leisurely lifestyle, I > can cope with that. > > So, I need to find out if the information I've gleaned so far is accurate > (packet radio being the way to go), proceed to find equipment and an > inexpensive way to link it into the internet. It sounds like that is where > you might be able to help. Would it be possible for me to locate equipment > (radio and PC - probably) at a "Little Garden" location and link into the > internet through it? > > It is possible that others might be interested in a packet radio internet > connection as well, so there may be a business case for the service. > > I'd appreciate any help or suggestions you could provide. > > Thanks, > > Aaron Morse, Support Engineer > NeXT Computer > > -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:00:38 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03478; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:00:33 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012100.NAA03478@tlg.org> Subject: Re: scruz-net contacts To: garlick@scruz.net (Tim Garlick) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:00:32 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401180521.AA06369@scruz.net> from "Tim Garlick" at Jan 17, 94 09:21:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 426 Status: O > please add me to the contact list for scruz-net, since there > are actually three of us doing this:) Here's what I'm using now: admin@scruz.net (Santa Cruz Community Internet), garlick@scruz.net (Tim Garlick), Maybe you should be part of the 'admin' alias there? If you do that let me know, andI'll remove you here... otherwise it's done! -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From gnu@cygnus.com Tue Feb 1 13:01:20 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03491; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:01:16 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwbkm10692; Tue, 1 Feb 94 16:02:51 -0500 Received: from localhost.cygnus.com (cygnus.com) by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16506; Tue, 1 Feb 94 13:02:49 PST Message-Id: <9402012102.AA16506@cygnus.com> To: admin@tlg.org, gnu@cygnus.com Subject: Let me know when the Toad 56K DSU is installed and cabled and config'd Date: Tue, 01 Feb 1994 13:02:49 -0800 From: John Gilmore Status: O Basically, if you can set up the Market St. end of it, including the router config, (assign it a new subnet # separate from the subnet # that is now in use for the Cygnus/Toad line, and tell me what it is), then I can later juggle things on my end. If it all works, great! If not, we have to schedule time when there is somebody at both ends. Thanks... John From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:08:02 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03506; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:07:49 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012107.NAA03506@tlg.org> Subject: Re: More on xenon's net connection .... To: paul@taniwha.com (Paul Campbell) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:07:47 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin, grossman@cygnus.com In-Reply-To: <9401280411.AA16239@taniwha.com> from "Paul Campbell" at Jan 27, 94 07:58:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1972 Status: O I know you're doing the tech stuff with Stu Grossman, but here's the start of our paper work... If you can ftp, go to ftp.tlg.org and get all the how-to docs there, especially START-HERE. Else I can mail 'em to you... I need some basic information from you, and provide you with your subnet. Please fill this out and return it to me... Since you've got a copper connection, we'll bill you at modem rates for the DTE speed: 19,200 $70/mo 38,400 $130/mo 57,600 $325/mo T H E L I T T L E G A R D E N return this ENTIRE form to: admin@tlg.org (You might want to keep a copy for yourself) Please fill any ***'ed items below (ie. information I don't have) and change any incorrect items, and mail it back to me. Some of it will be posted to a contact list available to little garden members; the rest of it I'll keep private. ---------- Please don't remove anything below this line ---------- Your Little Garden POP will be: Cygnus Support, 1937 Landings Dr, Mtn. View CA 94043 Type of circuit you are installing: *** dedicated copper You've been assigned 8-bit subnet: 140.174.118 For routing purposes, the address of the Little Garden router/gateway ("next hop") is: 140.174.4.3 *You* tell *us* what the first address is on your end (eg. your SLIP or PPP port that's the gateway to your network): *** PUBLIC INFORMATION: Company/site name (optional): *** Person/contact name: *** Voice phone to contact for problems: *** Domain name you'll register: *** person@domain to send mail to: *** TECHNICAL INFORMATION: Do you want SLIP or PPP? *** (SLIP only) Want van Jacobson compression? (y,n) [recommended] *** UNLISTED INFORMATION: Phone/circuit number at TLG site: *** N/A Mailing address (for billing): Company/person if different: *** Street, etc: *** City, etc: *** (Other info required? Add here.) *** -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:16:47 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03529; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:16:36 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012116.NAA03529@tlg.org> Subject: Re: send signup form To: craig@veritas.com (Craig Harmer) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:16:35 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: from "Craig Harmer" at Jan 27, 94 08:39:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3094 Status: O > there's no way to really phrase this politely, and i apologize for > having to ask, but i need to do so: are you folks honorable? i need > you to say that you won't look at my net traffic, or do anything nasty > at my employers, so that i can tell them that my SF subnet will be > (relatively) secure. Politeness aside, it's also paradoxical. If we were not honorable, likely we'd say we were anyways. TL was formed not for profit-first, but to set community standards (in the IP supplier world) of practice and policy, one of which is utterly "hands off" re: content and usage. Short of a court order, we won't pull your plug, etc. As far as traffic goes, it's flatly illegal to snoop in ways like you're worried about. If it's that much of an operating issue, you should use encryption systems, not provided by TLG. We cannot guarentee that there are no ether-sniffers, theives, nut-cases etc on the Net. And consider that each of your packets hase far, far more physical exposure on the rest of the net outside TLG; simply numerically, your packets might go through 3/4/5 TLG routers; and 15-20 outside TLG. Never mind breakins to hosts, employee theft, and normal maintenance (stuck mail, bugs, undeliverable addresses, etc....) If you want to go ahead, I'll send you the form to fill out, which gives you a subnet yuo can start setting up, and gets us contact info et con you. If you haven't yet, please ftp to ftp.tlg.org and read the how-to docs thre, especially START-HERE, which has the basics on payment, process, etc.... > > in order for this arrangement work well for me, i need to have veritas > (my employer) change their internet firewall to allow packets from my > SF subnet to flow freely to the rest of the company (currently traffic > from the outside world is confined to a single gateway machine). in order > to get the sysadmin to change the firewall, i'll have to assure him that > my subnet is "secure". in order to promise him that, i'd like your > assurance that it is secure in the sense that no one at TLG will snoop > my packets, impersonate a machine on my subnet, etc. > > i'm sorry to have to ask. > > so, having taken care of that, with a go-ahead from you, i'll call Pac Bell > tomorrow and have them add a phone line at 444 Market St. i'll have a modem > for you as soon as the phone goes in, perhaps before. what other information > do you need, and where do you want a check sent? > > > I tend to read mail in batches... though this last batch I was slow to > > get to. Depends on trhe load at th emoment. We're working on this... > > cool. i was getting kind of frustrated. thanks for the quick response. > > > -- > > The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org > > craig. > > -- > {apple,amdahl}!veritas!craig craig@veritas.com > (415) 668-3564 (h) (408) 727-1222 x220 (w) > [views expressed above aren't Veritas' views, nor should > they be mistaken for the views of any responsible person.] > -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tinle@starbase.sj.unisys.com Tue Feb 1 13:18:16 1994 Received: from mail.unigate1.unisys.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03543; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:18:08 -0800 Received: from ctnews2.sj.unisys.com ([129.226.18.12]) by mail.unigate1.unisys.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21816; Tue, 1 Feb 94 21:23:57 GMT Received: from starbase.sj.unisys.com by ctnews2.sj.unisys.com (4.1/SMI-4.1R13) id AA27899; Tue, 1 Feb 94 13:20:45 PST Received: by starbase.sj.unisys.com (4.1/6.8); Tue, 1 Feb 94 13:23:49 PST Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:23:46 -0800 (PST) From: Tin Le Subject: Getting connected To: info@tlg.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O I have all your information and have read the printed out files. Last week I sent the following to Tom Jennings (because his email address was in the files on ftp.tlg.org). I will followup with voice phone call later. ---------------------------------------- From tinle@sj.unisys.com Thu Jan 27 17:40:17 1994 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 17:40:16 -0800 (PST) From: Tin Le Subject: TLG sign up To: Tom Jennings cc: Postmaster@saigon.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O Tom, I would like to get connected to TLG. I have ftp'ed all the relevant text files and read them. My site, Saigon.COM, has 4 phone lines with room for more. I am also interested in becoming a TLG POP. I have a Livingston PM-11 on order. Saigon.COM is at my house, so qualifies for residential rates. I am very familiar with routers, TCP/IP, UNIX, etc. So it would not be a problem to provide help with the technical support workload. Regards, Tin Le ---------------------------------------- At the moment, Amdahl is my MX host. I have named working will be SOA for my own site. Regards, Tin Le ----- Tin Le | comp.binaries.ms-windows Moderator TL Consulting | Send submissions to cbmsw@Saigon.COM Current Office: 408-456-5587 | Requests to cbmsw-request@Saigon.COM tinle@sj.unisys.com | Archive on wuarchive.wustl.edu Or tin@saigon.com | MailServer at mailserv@Saigon.COM From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:19:24 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03553; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:18:57 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012118.NAA03553@tlg.org> Subject: Re: information on receiving internet via cable To: lmclean@tibalt.supernet.ab.ca (Lonny Mclean) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:18:56 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <199401281526.HAA03442@tlg.org> from "Lonny Mclean" at Jan 28, 94 08:24:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 881 Status: OR > Could you please send me some info on receiving Internet through cable. > In particular, could you tell me how one gets around the unidirectional > limits of cable. I live in Canada, and would like to introduce this in > some way to our cable operators or subscribe. I would if I had any. There is one place I know of selling IP via cable TV here in te SF area. It is extremely limited. They deliver data to you via cable, but you have a modem and log into their site for data from you to the net. The yalso have a maximum of 200 discrete addresses on their net. Typically when you connect a site to the internet you get a range uf network numbers; we give out 256 at a time. It's not much practical use right now, maybe when they replace all the cable repeaters with two-way devices.... -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:22:16 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03567; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:21:00 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012121.NAA03567@tlg.org> Subject: Re: DNS To: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:20:59 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401281625.AA00282@everest.com> from "Robert D. Nielsen" at Jan 28, 94 08:25:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 586 Status: O > I have installed DNS on my machine this morning. I have not tested any part of > it yet, so all bets are off. I will experiment with it this weekend. > > Please feel free to "poke" at it, and let me know what you think. > > Robert D. Nielsen > 140.174.104.1 It's still not responding... if you're not running a standard named/BIND, then I can't help with specifics... you migh ttry posting to garden-list@tlg.org and ask for help with NeXT... I believe there are one or two of 'em out there... -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From paul@taniwha.com Tue Feb 1 13:26:25 1994 Received: from taniwha.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03610; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:26:20 -0800 Received: from [198.182.167.87] (biko.taniwha.com) by taniwha.com (5.54/25-eef) id AA22138; Tue, 1 Feb 94 13:39:26 PST Message-Id: <9402012139.AA22138@taniwha.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:25:54 -0800 To: admin@tlg.org From: paul@taniwha.com (Paul Campbell) Subject: Re: More on xenon's net connection .... Cc: admin@fnord.tlg.org, grossman@cygnus.com Status: O Tom (or whoever), Here's the filled out form you asked for, our trench is going in on Thursday, wiring should be done by early next week, I'll know in a couple of days. The one gotcha in our request is that we own our own IP subnet number and want to use it because our business plan involves eventually selling software over the net (strange as that might seem for a chip company :-) and we want to be able to move buildings etc as we grow in the next few year and keep the IP address (ie to keep our options open). Paul Campbell Xenon Microsystems paul@taniwha.com ---------- Please don't remove anything below this line ---------- Your Little Garden POP will be: Cygnus Support, 1937 Landings Dr, Mtn. View CA 94043 Type of circuit you are installing: *** dedicated copper You've been assigned 8-bit subnet: 199.5.224 <======= For routing purposes, the address of the Little Garden router/gateway ("next hop") is: 140.174.4.3 *You* tell *us* what the first address is on your end (eg. your SLIP or PPP port that's the gateway to your network): 199.5.224.2 PUBLIC INFORMATION: Company/site name (optional): Xenon Person/contact name: Paul Campbell Voice phone to contact for problems: (510)540-5557/(415)254-5805 Domain name you'll register: xenon.com person@domain to send mail to: paul@xenon.com TECHNICAL INFORMATION: Do you want SLIP or PPP? PPP (SLIP only) Want van Jacobson compression? (y,n) [recommended] - UNLISTED INFORMATION: Phone/circuit number at TLG site: N/A Mailing address (for billing): Company/person if different: Xenon, Attn: Lindsay Aspegren Street, etc: 2083 Landings Drive City, etc: Mountain Viiew CA 94043 (Other info required? Add here.) - From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:27:24 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03595; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:23:35 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012123.NAA03595@tlg.org> Subject: OK -- call me crazy but... (fwd) To: wolfgang@wsrcc.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:23:34 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 804 Status: O Wolfgang -- you might wanna contact this guy!!! Let me know if you need help arrangeing things... Forwarded message: > From jantypas@netcom.com Fri Jan 28 13:39:59 1994 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 13:41:43 -0800 > From: jantypas@netcom.com (John Antypas) > Message-Id: <199401282141.NAA17461@netcom8.netcom.com> > To: info@admin.tlg.rg.net > Subject: OK -- call me crazy but... > > > I am working with a small University in Davis CA. They are looking for an Internet connection. > Currently, TLG has no access in the Davis area. If a 56Kb pathway were provided for DQ- > University (a Native American University), AND TLG were allowed to use DQ as a POP for Davis/Sac, > would TLG be interested in such a thing? > -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:34:56 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03639; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:34:25 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012134.NAA03639@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Receipt To: rnielsen@pdh.com, rnielsen@everest.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:34:24 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401282239.AA21965@snowbird.pdh.com> from "Robert Nielsen" at Jan 28, 94 02:39:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1702 Status: O (Oh hell I think I lost the reply I typed! If you get two you know what happend!) > Next month, instead of sending me a quarterly bill, would you send me a receipt for the 7 > quarters that I payed in advance? Yes! I printed them yesterday, you'll get it by the end of the week. Thanks again!! > Also, did you ever get my proposal for a TLG NNTP news server? Did I *say* something > wrong? I am _really_ trying to help TLG. Please let me know what you think, even if it is > not good. We're just swamped here... The real need for NNTP servers is at the end of ther 56K leased lines, 210 clayton and 814 university, where the multiple feeds eats into the line capacity; it's not a serious problem on the T1-connected sites, like Cygnus and 444. If you want to read news, or get a feed, you can contact John Harkin jh@nbn.com. An NNTP server at Cygnus, or anywhere with a T1 feed, is a luxury, relatively-speaking. It's just not much of a load. And we were hoping that TLG members could take on providing NNTP server hardware and admin withuot any involvement from Tim and I; unfortunately NNTP is very low priority, as it's an "added sevice" ad we're working more than full time on basic services... > Have you already made 814 University a POP? Sounds like the local traffic on the net > makes the use unbearable on occasion. If I were on that POP (thank you for not putting > me on that POP), you can bet I would be concerned about the local net getting more for > there money (sometimes at the cost of others). It seems like there's a technical rpoblem ther as well, like a weather-worn thinnet cable... -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:38:55 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03673; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:38:06 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012138.NAA03673@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Installation To: jeff.aldrich@access-info.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:38:05 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin, pozar (Tim Pozar) In-Reply-To: <9401281536.A2776wk@access-info.com> from "jeff.aldrich@access-info.com" at Jan 28, 94 03:36:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1253 Status: O > > I received phone message (relayed to me) saying you have installed > > a 56K leased line to us? There's no serious problem, and we're glad > > to have you, but it's the first I've heard of it, if so. Last we > > talked, you were still investigating possibilities, etc. > > It's not installed yet, we don't have your sf street address so pac > bell dosen't know where to terminate...Please send me your street address. I'll send you our form to fill out... it has the street address etc. If you haven't already, please ftp to ftp.tlg.org, and read the how-to docs there... some are likely not applicable,but at least read START-HERE... > I spoke with Tim about 10 days ago and mentioned our resources were in > place and that we were about ready to go. > > Our 56k install date is Feb. 15 -- when can you folks travel to > Fairfield and set us up?? Umm, we can't. It's not what TLG does; we provide raw IP, and while we'll glagly help you out, it doesn't include housecalls. You'll need to arrange for standard consulting services if you dfon't have it in-house. And we're utterly swamped, though likely we can find you referals. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:40:12 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03684; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:40:02 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012140.NAA03684@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Installation To: jeff.aldrich@access-info.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:40:00 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401281536.A2776wk@access-info.com> from "jeff.aldrich@access-info.com" at Jan 28, 94 03:36:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1532 Status: OR T H E L I T T L E G A R D E N return this ENTIRE form to: admin@tlg.org (You might want to keep a copy for yourself) Please fill any ***'ed items below (ie. information I don't have) and change any incorrect items, and mail it back to me. Some of it will be posted to a contact list available to little garden members; the rest of it I'll keep private. ---------- Please don't remove anything below this line ---------- Your Little Garden POP will be: RGNet, Inc, suite 3075, 444 Market Street, S.F. 94111 Type of circuit you are installing: *** DS0 Telephone number/circuit number: *** You've been assigned 8-bit subnet: 140.174.119 For routing purposes, the address of the Little Garden router/gateway ("next hop") is: 140.174. -- TBD *You* tell *us* what the first address is on your end (eg. your SLIP or PPP port that's the gateway to your network): *** PUBLIC INFORMATION: Company/site name (optional): *** Person/contact name: *** Voice phone to contact for problems: *** Domain name you'll register: *** person@domain to send mail to: *** TECHNICAL INFORMATION: Do you want SLIP or PPP? *** (SLIP only) Want van Jacobson compression? (y,n) [recommended] *** UNLISTED INFORMATION: Phone/circuit number at TLG site: *** Mailing address (for billing): Company/person if different: *** Street, etc: *** City, etc: *** (Other info required? Add here.) *** -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:42:32 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03701; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:42:17 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012142.NAA03701@tlg.org> Subject: Re: PPP-on-demand To: sfollmer@igc.apc.org (Steve Follmer) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:42:16 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <199401290144.RAA03479@cdp.igc.org> from "Steve Follmer" at Jan 28, 94 05:44:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 824 Status: O Sorry, but we're not planning on selling "shell acounts", ever, basically. It's just a different market. We can't afford the amount of overhead and support, not at the prices we're charging. You might consider getting a few friends together to buya nd operate a small unix host to which you could attach as many people as you see fit and charge whatever you please. You could split our $70/mo by 10 ways if you like... > My needs, in which I believe I'm not alone, are: > > 10-20 hours of PPP 14.4 dialup a month > usenet news access > low cost > a local phone call from Berkeley > > Will tlg be able to accomodate these needs in the near future? I believe > you have the last 2 covered already; I'm interested in the first two. > > -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:44:42 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03733; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:44:27 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012144.NAA03733@tlg.org> Subject: Contact Needs Help (fwd) To: randy@psg.com, admin Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:44:26 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1005 Status: OR Does anyone know anyone who could help here? I certainly can't... no opbligation, toss in the bit-bucket if N/A... Forwarded message: > From tomj@fido.wps.com Fri Jan 28 19:25:01 1994 > From: doug@livingston.com (Doug Meltzer) > Message-Id: <9401282334.AA20367@livingston.com> > Subject: Contact Needs Help > To: tomj@fido.wps.com > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 15:39:05 -0800 (PST) > Reply-To: doug@livingston.com (Douglas H. Meltzer) > Return-Receipt-To: doug@livingston.com > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] > Content-Type: text > Content-Length: 299 > Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com > > > Tom, > > I gave your email address and phone out to a lady in destress. There > back on the east coast, called Capital Area Internet Service. Debbie > Alston. > > They are trying to go thru Sprint with a IRX router. Maybe you can help > them with the politics. > > Thanks in advance, > > Doug Meltzer > > -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:45:46 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03751; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:45:39 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012145.NAA03751@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Pac Bell fee To: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:45:38 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401291657.AA11771@everest.com> from "Robert D. Nielsen" at Jan 29, 94 08:57:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 402 Status: O > Not really a big deal, but I am curious; Pac Bell charged me $45 for "first 15 minutes of > wiring" for my number at Cygnus. Is this standard? Again, not a high priority, just curious. > I didn't analyze my biz-line install bill. Mine was $75 total. I did my own wiring too. Biz rates are much steeper on instll.. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:46:42 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03764; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:46:38 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012146.NAA03764@tlg.org> Subject: Re: ppp To: roliver@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Robert Oliver) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:46:37 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401292200.AA07708@nyx10.cs.du.edu> from "Robert Oliver" at Jan 29, 94 02:59:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 350 Status: O > Do you have a pop (point of present) in the houston area? Also > sence I supply the modem is there a porblem with 16.8K HST or v.34 for > the same price? We only have presence in the S.F. Bay Area, sorry... (We charge $70 for up to 19,200, $130 for v.fast...) -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:48:25 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03777; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:48:21 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012148.NAA03777@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Service availability To: enge@almaden.ibm.com (Roy Engehausen) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:48:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <199401292201.OAA05245@tlg.org> from "Roy Engehausen" at Jan 29, 94 01:56:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1054 Status: O Yes, your proposal is more than reasonable. It's what most of our members are doing, to one degee or another. Most are using 14,400 modems, which are just fine also. We charge $130.mo for 28.8K connections however. $70 for 19,200 and under... Modem links are very reliable. > We have been checking a bunch of things out and have found space for > the equipment in an alarmed commercial establishment. We have also > located a low-end UNIX box for use as the computer. What I am trying > to nail down now is the service. > > The question has come up about a SLIP line at 28.8kbps using V42.FAST > and compression. One of the trade rags had some good words to say > about one of the modem vendors. A SLIP type connection might save me > some bucks in startup costs by eliminating the need for a router and > 56 kbps CSU/DSU. > > We really have a small capital budget so am trying to squeeze every > cent I can. Any comments of ideas would be welcome. > > Roy > -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:52:03 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03790; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:52:00 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012152.NAA03790@tlg.org> Subject: Re: questions... To: matthew@scruz.net (Matthew Kaufman) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:51:59 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin, gnu@cygnus.com In-Reply-To: <199401310428.UAA16072@scruz.net> from "Matthew Kaufman" at Jan 30, 94 08:27:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1063 Status: O > 1. "TLG in San Jose" was a topic on the agenda of the last meeting... > what, if anything, came of that? M. Strata Rose is/was going to publish minutes or notes... > 2. If Scruz-Net wanted to switch to having a T-1 connection originating > at the downtown SF POP, using a router we provide, would that be > possible? How much would TLG charge for such a thing? ($800/month?) > (Startup fee?) We'd be willing to work out some deal to minimize the impact 0on you, as long as it minimizes the impact on us as well! Why downtown SF? We'd waive the router-port fee ($750) and likely charge you the labor part ($500) though we could split it over N months or something.. > 3. Is the port we're connected to in Mountain View capable of > faster-than-56k operation, or would we need to be getting our > own router if we instead decided to increase our connect speed there? See above... Cygnus is fed with T1, so it's merely one more router hop, and a lot fewer miles! -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:53:58 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03817; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:53:52 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012153.NAA03817@tlg.org> Subject: Re: primary DNS for kagi.com? To: kee@kagi.com (Kee Nethery +1 510 843 6140) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:53:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401310533.AA01909@zocalo.com> from "Kee Nethery +1 510 843 6140" at Jan 30, 94 09:21:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 678 Status: O > > could I have you guys act as my primary DNS? I am downstream of Bill > Woodcock and well, I'd like to find a different primary other than > zocalo.zocalo.com. > > If you can act as primary, what information do you need from me and I'll > get it all together and send it your way. Yes we can do that -- but wouldn't a secondary accomplish the same thing? That way youd reatin control over it, it would be one less administrative thing to do here, and outside sites would have a T1-connected DNS server... But if there's other issues let me know. We can run the data here at fnord.tlg.org. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:55:22 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03844; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:55:21 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012155.NAA03844@tlg.org> Subject: phone calls --:> email To: flesh (Flesh) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:55:20 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 246 Status: O Could you send 'em to admin, not tomj? Some of those Pozar could answer/// I'll bounce them all to admin now, so you'll see them come back at you. Just kill them. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:55:44 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03857; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:55:43 -0800 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id JAA01830; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:12:36 -0800 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:12:36 -0800 From: flesh (Flesh) Message-Id: <199401311712.JAA01830@tlg.org> To: tomj Subject: Beka Thomas called Sender: tomj Status: O Beka Thomas called. The modem that you recomended is in. She would also like to talk to you about Unix World, and unix and enviromental set-ups (fire walls, placements, etc) This is in regards to Unix World's confrence. From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:56:12 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03867; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:56:12 -0800 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id JAA01830; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:12:36 -0800 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:12:36 -0800 From: flesh (Flesh) Message-Id: <199401311712.JAA01830@tlg.org> To: tomj Subject: Beka Thomas called Sender: tomj Status: OR Beka Thomas called. The modem that you recomended is in. She would also like to talk to you about Unix World, and unix and enviromental set-ups (fire walls, placements, etc) This is in regards to Unix World's confrence. From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:56:39 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03877; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:56:38 -0800 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id JAA01838; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:13:48 -0800 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:13:48 -0800 From: flesh (Flesh) Message-Id: <199401311713.JAA01838@tlg.org> To: tomj Subject: Fred Davis Sender: tomj Status: OR Fred Davis called. No message other than call at your liesure. 510-526-5555 Dated Thursday From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:58:02 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03899; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:58:01 -0800 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id JAA01904; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:45:10 -0800 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:45:10 -0800 From: flesh (Flesh) Message-Id: <199401311745.JAA01904@tlg.org> To: tomj Subject: request for info via phone contact Sender: tomj Status: O Mark Turner called. Would like information about internet access through tlg. His number is 510-943-3427 Dated friday From tomj Tue Feb 1 13:58:33 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id NAA03915; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:58:32 -0800 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA01932; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 10:01:06 -0800 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 10:01:06 -0800 From: flesh (Flesh) Message-Id: <199401311801.KAA01932@tlg.org> To: tomj Subject: request for information via phone Sender: tomj Status: O Jed Parker called from rlw analitics. He was recomended by Andrew at Wired magazine. He would like to get hooked up onto the internet. He is located in Sonoma, and would be interested in adial-up via the North Bay Net. The primary usage of this hook-up would bw to send and recieve email from their east coast branch, as well as sending and recieving files. His number is 707-939-8823 Dated Friday From tomj Tue Feb 1 14:04:36 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA03929; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:04:30 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012204.OAA03929@tlg.org> Subject: Re: DNS trivia... To: jonathan@cyborganic.com (Jonathan Steuer) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:04:29 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9401310645.AA14922@cyborganic.com> from "Jonathan Steuer" at Jan 30, 94 10:46:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1430 Status: O > I was running with rip.psg.com as a secondary - that is how you set me up > in October. I've switched it over to fnord.tlg.org as of right now... Oh... well there was no need to swap over from that; I had it here that I (wps.coM) was secondarying. thats the one I wanted to turn off. RIP.PSG.COM is actually a really good site... since he's secondarying for you now, why not simpyl add RIP.PSG.COM to your database, as a third NS host... anyone who grabs that info from you will use it. > BTW, did you see my message from the other day about not being able to > telnet directly to Wired?? I have always had this problem - I need to log > in to the gateway machine first to get to Wired. This doesn't happen to any > other destination. I think the problem is with my ifconfigs or with my > routed settings. What should my netmask be? Below is a copy of > /etc/netstart, if that helps at all. No hurry on this -- I've been living > with it for months already -- but any insight you may have would be > appreciated. It's a reverse-lookup problem, and mainly an adminstrative one in delegating the reverse's from Cygnus to whoever gets the subnet. Wired can't lookup up your IP address, and hence their security won't let you in... A quick fix would be to have wired.com secondary for cyborganic so it would then have tre data alll the time... -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From admin@tlg.org Tue Feb 1 14:10:33 1994 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA03947; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:10:03 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwbkq28353; Tue, 1 Feb 94 17:11:45 -0500 Received: from localhost.cygnus.com (cygnus.com) by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18901; Tue, 1 Feb 94 14:11:44 PST Message-Id: <9402012211.AA18901@cygnus.com> To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Alternet -- hold the presses Date: Tue, 01 Feb 1994 14:11:44 -0800 From: John Gilmore Status: O The rumor isn't checking out. Stay tuned if you care, but meanwhile, don't propagate the rumor that the Alternet ATM backbone was troubled. Someone I trust at Alternet says it's been fine, so I'm trying to trace the rumor back to its source. John From tomj Tue Feb 1 14:21:37 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA03965; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:21:03 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012221.OAA03965@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Looking for an update on those two new nets To: GREG@mail.msm.com (Greg Merrell) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:21:02 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin, grossman@cygnus.com In-Reply-To: <940131082933.629@mail.msm.com> from "Greg Merrell" at Jan 31, 94 08:29:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 524 Status: O > I know that you aren't eager to have yet more routes added to the > tables, but I've got Verisoft all setup and waiting for full connectivity. > If you could give me some idea when I might expect to see 199.33.214 and > 199.33.214 added to the tables, then I can let them know what to expect. Stu was out of town for a week, and he handles NACRs. If you want a 140.174.xxxx subnet for one of them, let me know I can give you that ASAP. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Feb 1 14:25:36 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA03948; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:10:04 -0800 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:10:04 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199402012210.OAA03948@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-cygnus-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 tlg-admin@Sunnyside.COM (Sunnyside)... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA03947; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:10:03 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwbkq28353; Tue, 1 Feb 94 17:11:45 -0500 Received: from localhost.cygnus.com (cygnus.com) by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18901; Tue, 1 Feb 94 14:11:44 PST Message-Id: <9402012211.AA18901@cygnus.com> To: the-little-garden@cygnus.com Subject: Alternet -- hold the presses Date: Tue, 01 Feb 1994 14:11:44 -0800 From: John Gilmore The rumor isn't checking out. Stay tuned if you care, but meanwhile, don't propagate the rumor that the Alternet ATM backbone was troubled. Someone I trust at Alternet says it's been fine, so I'm trying to trace the rumor back to its source. John From tomj Tue Feb 1 14:37:51 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA04010; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:37:25 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012237.OAA04010@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Receipt To: rnielsen@pdh.com, rnielsen@everest.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:37:24 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9402012210.AA09720@snowbird.pdh.com> from "Robert Nielsen" at Feb 1, 94 02:10:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2447 Status: OR > > About the news feed: > > I offered to pay for the machine. It could/would be the one machine on TLG that *pays* > for a feed from a service provider (like UUNET). It could/would feed others on TLG. I also > said that we the membership would maintain it, not you or Pozar. What is wrong with my > idea? I was expecting you to JUMP at the idea. Like I said, there's not a problem getting news from the T1-connected sites -- Cygnus and 444 Market. The NNTP machine is Harkin's, 50+ miles away, but it's only 10 milliseconds away... The problem is not where to GET the nntp feed, but where to STORE it. Harkin has a big feed from outside TLG. Others have long standing, reliable, free or low-cost feeds from sites outside TLG. The problem is there's no way to coordinate the feeds -- At 210 Clayton, there's 13 sites. Say 8 of them get news. Sites 1 - 4 get groups A B C. Sites 5 - 7 get groups B C D. Sites 1, 7, 8 get groups C B. Each of them get all that redundant data over the same line at the same time; groups B and C are retrieved by multiple sites. If ther was a machine at the end of the leased line, it would benefit *only* those people -- but greatly. The 56K line would get one feed for A B C D E F ... and each site could retreive or even read it on the local-to-them NNTP box, and un-load thr 56K leased line. Which was the only purpose of the news box... to unload 56K leased lines. I hope what was desired with NNTP boxes is clearer. The only place they're *needed* is at 210 Clayton and 814 University. (And at 814 University, there's the problem that all the equip is in someones bedroom!) John Harkin offered to provide all TL people with access to his news fed box. It's only 1 router further way than 444 is. He has a large and reliable feed, that doesn't use *any* TLG/NBN backbone. So it's bandwidth-free. Even a box at 444 Market that was the TLG news box wouldn't increase access for TL members -- John will do that. And it also means we'd have a well-used host with lots of logins on a very sensitive ethernet -- an ether sniffer in there would be a sizeabl security hole. And there's the space and maintenance issue at 444... So I hoep this is clearer... your generosity is more than noted! Ther ewere people interested in workin on NNTP stuff, but Strata Rose hasn't posted her notes yet... I don't know who they were. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 14:38:06 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA04030; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:38:05 -0800 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id KAA01994; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 10:17:09 -0800 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 10:17:09 -0800 From: flesh (Flesh) Message-Id: <199401311817.KAA01994@tlg.org> To: tomj Subject: request for info Sender: tomj Status: O A Niten called, requesting information about an internet connection. Mail was sent to his address (nitin@cybase.com), but it was bounced back. I will try to send it one more time. In case it bounces back, his voice number is 510-922-8057. Also, I have tried to send out the correct forms as far as info, but have been denied permission from doing so. What I have been doing, is writing to the person who requests the info, saying that the phone call was heard, and that they can recieve the requested info, by emailing info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 14:39:07 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA04041; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:39:07 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012239.OAA04041@tlg.org> Subject: Re: request for info To: flesh@fnord.tlg.org (Flesh) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:39:06 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <199401311817.KAA01994@tlg.org> from "Flesh" at Jan 31, 94 10:16:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 456 Status: OR Also, I have tried to send out the correct forms as far as info, but > have been denied permission from doing so. What I have been doing, is writing > to the person who requests the info, saying that the phone call was heard, and that they can > recieve the requested info, by emailing info@tlg.org > You can't read the file /tlg/work/brochure? I'll go look at it now... -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Feb 1 15:00:29 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA04169; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:00:28 -0800 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:00:28 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days Message-Id: <199402012300.PAA04169@tlg.org> To: admin@tlg.org Status: O ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- :include:/tlg/sendmail/garden-pa-list (hard error -- address deleted) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id OAA00091; Sat, 29 Jan 1994 14:40:53 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwazq02374; Sat, 29 Jan 94 17:40:59 -0500 Received: from galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20875; Sat, 29 Jan 94 14:40:56 PST Received: by galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16230; Sat, 29 Jan 94 14:40:54 PST Date: Sat, 29 Jan 94 14:40:54 PST From: mdurkin@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu (Mike Durkin) Message-Id: <9401292240.AA16230@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu> To: private-garden@cygnus.com Subject: BARRNet T-1 price goes UP! BARRNet raised their T-1 prices this year. It used to be something like $500/mo. for a 2-year pre-paid contract for the least endowed groups and another 25% off that for non-profits. Their updated info file now says $950/mo. for a 2-year prepaid. They also nuked their "Service Provider" category and merged it with "Commercial" although I dunno what that means. Just thought that's kinda interesting :-> From tomj Tue Feb 1 15:05:57 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA04211; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:05:53 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012305.PAA04211@tlg.org> Subject: Re: WWW Home Page To: dshr@abitare.org (David Rosenthal) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:05:52 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9402010428.AA07513@abitare.org> from "David Rosenthal" at Jan 31, 94 08:28:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 211 Status: O > I just browsed it. Good job.... It was Pozar's work... yes it does look good! If you have WWW server to add, just yell... -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 15:07:22 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA04225; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:07:16 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012307.PAA04225@tlg.org> Subject: Re: 28.8 in To: dave@hh.sbay.org (David L. Black) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:07:15 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: from "David L. Black" at Jan 31, 94 11:12:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 421 Status: O It's 1006... > Stu and I got my 28.8 modem in at Cygnus, no problem... > He said he set up the reverse DNS today but it's not yet working. > I *think* everything's correct at my end, anyway. Talking to my > own server, nslookup finds all the PTR records properly. > > BTW, what's the MTU you're using on that Portmaster? > > Dave > -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 15:25:58 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA04297; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:24:38 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012324.PAA04297@tlg.org> Subject: Re: TLG sign up To: tinle@sj.unisys.com (Tin Le) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:24:37 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: from "Tin Le" at Jan 27, 94 05:40:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2690 Status: OR > I would like to get connected to TLG. I have ftp'ed all the relevant > text files and read them. My site, Saigon.COM, has 4 phone lines with > room for more. I am also interested in becoming a TLG POP. I have a > Livingston PM-11 on order. Saigon.COM is at my house, so qualifies for > residential rates. Great! In San Fran we don't really have a need for another POP, since we have an expandale, commercial site downtown. Also, it would need to be 56K or greater to support the load. That's not to say in the future things might not change! In the mean time -- we can get you connected via modems, which I assume you want. I'll enclose the Form below (or next) and you'll get a subnet with it, that you can start configuring with. Fill out the form, and start the phoneline installation; at that time We can arrange to get your modem to me so that I can install it. > I am very familiar with routers, TCP/IP, UNIX, etc. So it would not be a > problem to provide help with the technical support workload. Good! We're using Livingston Portmaster 2E's so the setup shold drop in. We'll gladly do secondary DNS, and we have a site in Portland That does secondarying for us too. T H E L I T T L E G A R D E N return this ENTIRE form to: admin@tlg.org (You might want to keep a copy for yourself) Please fill any ***'ed items below (ie. information I don't have) and change any incorrect items, and mail it back to me. Some of it will be posted to a contact list available to little garden members; the rest of it I'll keep private. ---------- Please don't remove anything below this line ---------- Your Little Garden POP will be: RGNet, Inc, suite 3075, 444 Market Street, S.F. 94111 Type of circuit you are installing: *** voice-grade You've been assigned 8-bit subnet: 140.174.120 For routing purposes, the address of the Little Garden router/gateway ("next hop") is: 140.174.122.3 *You* tell *us* what the first address is on your end (eg. your SLIP or PPP port that's the gateway to your network): *** PUBLIC INFORMATION: Company/site name (optional): *** Person/contact name: *** Voice phone to contact for problems: *** Domain name you'll register: *** person@domain to send mail to: *** TECHNICAL INFORMATION: Do you want SLIP or PPP? *** (SLIP only) Want van Jacobson compression? (y,n) [recommended] *** UNLISTED INFORMATION: Phone/circuit number at TLG site: *** Mailing address (for billing): Company/person if different: *** Street, etc: *** City, etc: *** (Other info required? Add here.) *** -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 15:29:09 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA04312; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:28:59 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012328.PAA04312@tlg.org> Subject: Re: More on xenon's net connection .... To: paul@taniwha.com (Paul Campbell) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:28:58 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin@tlg.org, admin@fnord.tlg.org, grossman@cygnus.com In-Reply-To: <9402012139.AA22138@taniwha.com> from "Paul Campbell" at Feb 1, 94 01:25:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1163 Status: O > The one gotcha in our request is that we own > our own IP subnet number and want to use it because our business plan > involves eventually selling software over the net (strange as that might > seem for a chip company :-) and we want to be able to move buildings etc > as we grow in the next few year and keep the IP address (ie to keep our > options open). Got it fine. About subnets: there's really no ned at all to reserve IP addresses. They're just street addresses, and come with the territory. If you move somewhere else you'll be able to get a new subnet without a problem. There's lots of admin headaches for you and us in registering a separate Class C. The subnets we give outy have no restrictions except they stay within TLG. Outside Class C addresses have to get registered with a NACR form all the way up to Merit/ANS and it takes a while. Noone should be telnet'ing etc by using your numeric address, except for test purposes. They shoudl use the domain name system, which is what it's for. If you really require a separate Class C address we can do it. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 15:31:15 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA04331; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:30:49 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012330.PAA04331@tlg.org> Subject: Re: Receipt To: rnielsen@pdh.com, rnielsen@everest.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:30:48 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9402012245.AA12239@snowbird.pdh.com> from "Robert Nielsen" at Feb 1, 94 02:45:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 873 Status: O > > Thanks for the comments Tom. Yes, I am a bit thick-in-the-head sometimes. I > was under the impression that we were paying for multiple feeds that was being > delivered over TLG net (eating up peoples money and TLG bandwidth). It sounds > like that is not the case. If it were, then my approach would make sense. Yup it would... and you're not exactly think-headed, and this stuff is hardly common knowledge! I > would like to help TLG succeed, but I do not (yet) have the experience and > knowledge to help. I was hoping to pick an area that I am interested in (like > NNTP) and work with it for the benefit of TLG. Are there other technical areas > that my help could be used? Did you get a copy of Strata's meeting notes? There's still interestin in NNTP and other stuff! -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 15:32:54 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA04346; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:32:27 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012332.PAA04346@tlg.org> Subject: Re: John Harkin To: rnielsen@pdh.com, rnielsen@everest.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:32:26 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9402012249.AA12532@snowbird.pdh.com> from "Robert Nielsen" at Feb 1, 94 02:48:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 332 Status: O > How do I get ahold of him? I think there was a guy named Bill who had a Mac running > AUX that was willing to give me a feed. Do you know how to get a hold of him? > There's very few Bills in TLG, surprisingly... :-) I think it's Bill Kaster... -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 15:33:51 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA04366; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:33:47 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012333.PAA04366@tlg.org> Subject: Re: 28.8 in To: dave@hh.sbay.org (David L. Black) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:33:46 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: from "David L. Black" at Feb 1, 94 03:17:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 425 Status: OR > > It's 1006... > > Thank you sir. We're using 1084 here for all point to point > links. Would 1006 be a better choice? Seems using the same MTU might prevent > unnecessary fragmentation sometimes. I don't know exactly, but I belive block size is negotiated at connect time... they probably do the smallest in-common size... jsut a guess! -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tinle@starbase.sj.unisys.com Tue Feb 1 15:35:12 1994 Received: from mail.unigate1.unisys.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA04375; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:34:14 -0800 Received: from ctnews2.sj.unisys.com ([129.226.18.12]) by mail.unigate1.unisys.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26505; Tue, 1 Feb 94 23:39:59 GMT Received: from starbase.sj.unisys.com by ctnews2.sj.unisys.com (4.1/SMI-4.1R13) id AA00628; Tue, 1 Feb 94 15:36:47 PST Received: by starbase.sj.unisys.com (4.1/6.8); Tue, 1 Feb 94 15:39:53 PST Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:39:50 -0800 (PST) From: Tin Le Subject: Re: TLG sign up To: Tom Jennings Cc: admin@fnord.tlg.org, root@saigon.com In-Reply-To: <199402012324.PAA04297@tlg.org> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O Tom, I will send in the completed form later. I forgot to mention that I am in the South Bay, Sunnyvale. I believe you have two POPs down here, in Mountain View and Palo Alto. Adding one in Sunnyvale might not be as useful as one in SJ, but who knows :-). Agreed about the 56K bandwidth requirements. That is why I am thinking of an ISDN line to my house. With 128K, that should be enough for a few months... :-). Regards, Tin Le ----- Tin Le | comp.binaries.ms-windows Moderator TL Consulting | Send submissions to cbmsw@Saigon.COM Current Office: 408-456-5587 | Requests to cbmsw-request@Saigon.COM tinle@sj.unisys.com | Archive on wuarchive.wustl.edu Or tin@saigon.com | MailServer at mailserv@Saigon.COM On Tue, 1 Feb 1994, Tom Jennings wrote: > > I would like to get connected to TLG. I have ftp'ed all the relevant > > text files and read them. My site, Saigon.COM, has 4 phone lines with > > room for more. I am also interested in becoming a TLG POP. I have a > > Livingston PM-11 on order. Saigon.COM is at my house, so qualifies for > > residential rates. > > Great! In San Fran we don't really have a need for another POP, since we > have an expandale, commercial site downtown. Also, it would need to be > 56K or greater to support the load. That's not to say in the future > things might not change! From tomj Tue Feb 1 15:36:10 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA04383; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:36:09 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012336.PAA04383@tlg.org> Subject: GAK! To: grossman@cygnus.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:36:08 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3211 Status: OR I done run out of subnets to hand out!!! Gimme more!!! Here's my networks file... Unused networks < 100 are/were in use as NOS box subnets... let's let them lie fallow for a wee bit... though not too long! Hell, we might need a new Class B soon... # # Sun customer networks # This file is never consulted when the yellow pages are running # loopback 127 sun-ether 192.9.200 sunether ethernet localnet sun-oldether 125 sunoldether asylum-net 192.48.232 cygnus-net 192.80.44 # # Little Garden network subnets # littlegarden 140.174 cygnus-mv 140.174.1 Cygnus Mountain View campus ethernet toad-net 140.174.2 John Gilmore - Toad Hall ethernet rich-net 140.174.3 Rich Pixley pa-mv-slip 140.174.4 cygnus-toad-ppp 140.174.5 test-net 140.174.6 pozar1-net 140.174.7 Tim Pozar 140.174.8 cygnus-tis-ppp 140.174.9 pa-mp-slip 140.174.10 cyg-net-II 140.174.11 Retired for now garden-net 140.174.12 little-garden.net, TLG admin ptharp-net 140.174.13 Phil Tharp ptharp-tis-slip 140.174.14 Phil Tharp's slip line lever-net 140.174.20 Edward Elhauge - Lever Industries cygnus-pa 140.174.23 Palo Alto campus ethernet cygnus-pa-ppp 140.174.24 Cygnus Mountain View -> Palo Alto link cfcl-net 140.174.42 Rich Morin pozar3-net 140.174.66 Pozar's other net joes-garage-net 140.174.69 Kenton Hoover imat-net 140.174.70 Richard Couture barn-net 140.174.71 Tim Wicinski wired-net 140.174.72 WIRED magazine 140.174.73 140.174.74 140.174.75 140.174.76 wps-net 140.174.77 Tom Jennings queernet-net 140.174.78 Roger B. Klorese ah-net 140.174.79 Arthur Abraham oss-net 140.174.80 Eric Theise fogcity-net 140.174.81 Bill Essex idiom-net 140.174.82 David Muir Sharnoff wskcc-net 140.174.83 William S. Kaster comedia-net 140.174.84 Fen Labalme nos1-cygnus-net 140.174.85 (SLIP ports for NOS1.CYGNUS.COM) dragoman-net 140.174.86 Mike Park tsoft-net 140.174.87 Mike Durkin wsrcc-net 140.174.88 Wolfgang Rupprech traveler-net 140.174.89 Paul Goldstone seiden-net 140.174.90 Mark Seiden virtual-net 140.174.91 M. Strata Rose firstfloor-net 140.174.92 David Cardinal rosenthal-net 140.174.93 David Rosenthal skidpad-net 140.174.94 Eric Murray cyborganic-net 140.174.95 Jonathan Steuer dogwood-net 140.174.96 David Cornejo bi-net 140.174.97 Dan Farmer tiw-net 140.174.98 Lonhyn T. Jasinskyj tw-net 140.174.99 tom wadlow tj100 140.174.100 gumby-net 140.174.101 D. V. Henkel-Wallace dsnet-net 140.174.102 Micro Medic nexsys-net 140.174.103 Peter Killcommons everest-net 140.174.104 Robert Neilson nvidia-net 140.174.105 NVidia (David Rosenthal) pss-net 140.174.106 Tom Lipkis tj107 140.174.107 *** Kendell Willits tj108 140.174.108 *** Bo Orloff sp-net 140.174.109 Andrew Anker lavender-net 140.174.110 Robert Cohen iitel-net 140.174.111 Richard Couture talek-net 140.174.112 Andrew Moore asylum-net 140.174.113 Dave Black yak-net 140.174.114 Henry Strickland tj115 140.174.115 *** Tom Markson tj116 140.174.116 *** Randy Mills (Flesh) tj117 140.174.117 *** Tony Siress tj118 140.174.118 *** Paul Campbell tj119 140.174.119 *** Jeff Aldritch tj120 140.174.120 *** Tin Le # # Internet networks # arpanet 10 arpa ucb-ether 46 ucbether -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 15:40:18 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA04402; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:38:52 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402012338.PAA04402@tlg.org> Subject: Re: TLG sign up To: tinle@LOCAL.sj.unisys.com (Tin Le) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:38:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: from "Tin Le" at Feb 1, 94 03:39:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1111 Status: O > I will send in the completed form later. I forgot to mention that I am > in the South Bay, Sunnyvale. I believe you have two POPs down here, in > Mountain View and Palo Alto. Adding one in Sunnyvale might not be as > useful as one in SJ, but who knows :-). > > Agreed about the 56K bandwidth requirements. That is why I am thinking > of an ISDN line to my house. With 128K, that should be enough for a few > months... :-). BTW, we don't have ISDN capability yet. It's beyond our means for these next few months at least. We just don't haver the hardware. My ap0logies! (Why didI think you were in SF... who knows...) If 903-1400 is a local call to you, by all mean use the Cygnus POP. If not, Palo Alto... here are the addresses I excised from the blank form, you can add 'em in... Your Little Garden POP will be: RGNet, Inc, suite 3075, 444 Market Street, S.F. 94111 210 Clayton, SF 94107 814 University, Palo Alto 94301 Cygnus Support, 1937 Landings Dr, Mtn. View CA 94043 -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From craig@veritas.com Tue Feb 1 15:51:06 1994 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id PAA04427; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:51:04 -0800 Received: from athena.veritas.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwbkx27165; Tue, 1 Feb 94 18:52:46 -0500 Received: from mobius.veritas.com by athena.veritas.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.0 #2) id m0pRUtN-0008b5C; Tue, 1 Feb 94 15:52 PST Received: by mobius.veritas.com (Smail3.1.29.0 #2) id m0pRUtj-0001y4C; Tue, 1 Feb 94 15:52 PST Message-Id: From: craig@veritas.com (Craig Harmer) Subject: Re: send signup form To: tomj@fnord.tlg.org (Tom Jennings) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 15:52:46 PST Cc: craig@veritas.com, admin@fnord.tlg.org In-Reply-To: <199402012116.NAA03529@tlg.org>; from "Tom Jennings" at Feb 1, 94 1:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: OR > From: tomj@fnord.tlg.org (Tom Jennings) > Subject: Re: send signup form > To: craig@veritas.com (Craig Harmer) > Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:16:35 -0800 (PST) > Cc: admin@fnord.tlg.org > > there's no way to really phrase this politely, and i apologize for > > having to ask, but i need to do so: are you folks honorable? i need > > you to say that you won't look at my net traffic, or do anything nasty > > at my employers, so that i can tell them that my SF subnet will be > > (relatively) secure. > > Politeness aside, it's also paradoxical. If we were not honorable, > likely we'd say we were anyways. > > TL was formed not for profit-first, but to set community standards (in > the IP supplier world) of practice and policy, one of which is utterly > "hands off" re: content and usage. Short of a court order, we won't pull > your plug, etc. > As far as traffic goes, it's flatly illegal to snoop in ways like you're > worried about. If it's that much of an operating issue, you should use > encryption systems, not provided by TLG. that's what i was looking for. perhaps it would have been more diplomatic if i'd asked for a statement of your policies on privacy, content, and usage. in fact, veritas does do some work with ibm, on a physically seperate subnet connected to ibm via an encrypted T1 link. happily, i'm not involved in this work, and don't need remote access to that subnet. > We cannot guarentee that there are no ether-sniffers, theives, nut-cases > etc on the Net. And consider that each of your packets hase far, far > more physical exposure on the rest of the net outside TLG; simply > numerically, your packets might go through 3/4/5 TLG routers; and 15-20 > outside TLG. Never mind breakins to hosts, employee theft, and normal > maintenance (stuck mail, bugs, undeliverable addresses, etc....) basically, there is some risk in connecting to the internet (in the case of veritas, via alternet). the company has decided that the risk is acceptable and worth the benefits gained. what i need is to be able to assure our sysadmin that i'm not significantly increasing that risk by opening our firewall to a subnet in SF. with your statements, above, i can do that. again, i'm sorry if i've caused any offense. > If you want to go ahead, I'll send you the form to fill out, which gives > you a subnet yuo can start setting up, and gets us contact info et con > you. yes, please send me the form to fill out. > If you haven't yet, please ftp to ftp.tlg.org and read the how-to docs > thre, especially START-HERE, which has the basics on payment, process, > etc.... i've done that, and i think i've absorbed all the salient points. let me know where/when you want to hand off cash & a modem. > -- > The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org > craig. -- {apple,amdahl}!veritas!craig craig@veritas.com (415) 668-3564 (h) (408) 727-1222 x220 (w) [views expressed above aren't Veritas' views, nor should they be mistaken for the views of any responsible person.] From h@MicroUnity.com Tue Feb 1 16:36:27 1994 Received: from muse.microunity.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id QAA04462; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 16:36:19 -0800 Received: from gaea.microunity.com by muse.microunity.com (4.1/ericm1.1) id AA26545; Tue, 1 Feb 94 16:37:36 PST Received: from [192.216.192.66] (falmouth.microunity.com) by gaea.microunity.com (4.1/muse1.3) id AA03692; Tue, 1 Feb 94 16:37:26 PST Message-Id: <9402020037.AA03692@gaea.microunity.com> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 16:40:30 -0800 To: info@admin.tlg.rg.net From: h@MicroUnity.com (Jack Holloway) X-Sender: h@gaea.microunity.com Subject: Info Status: O Could you send me information on SLIP/PPP connections to the Internet. Thanks. Jack Holloway Vice President, MediaCom MicroUnity Systems Engineering, Inc. 255 Caspian Drive Sunnyvale, CA 94089 408-734-8100, (fax) 408-734-8136 From vividata.com!mark@vividata.com Tue Feb 1 16:36:27 1994 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id QAA04460; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 16:36:17 -0800 Received: from spool.uu.net (via LOCALHOST) by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwbla14803; Tue, 1 Feb 94 19:37:51 -0500 Received: from vividata.UUCP by uucp6.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL (queueing-rmail) id 191124.20357; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 19:11:24 EST Received: by vividata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00313; Tue, 1 Feb 94 15:54:02 PST Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 15:54:02 PST From: mark@vividata.com (Mark Liebman) Message-Id: <9402012354.AA00313@vividata.com> To: info@fnord.tlg.org Subject: SLIP PPP connection Status: O I am interested in doing this. Please send me info. Thanks, Mark Liebman Vividata, Inc. 1250 Addison St., Ste. 213A Berkeley, CA 94702 tel 510/841-6400 fax 510/841-9661 mark.liebman@vividata.com From zaven@drums.reasoning.com Tue Feb 1 17:03:27 1994 Received: from drums.reasoning.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id RAA04495; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 17:03:16 -0800 Received: from violin.reasoning.com.res_no_yp by drums.reasoning.com (4.1/25-eef) id AA20758; Tue, 1 Feb 94 17:04:46 PST for info@tlg.org Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 17:04:46 PST From: Lawrence Markosian Message-Id: <9402020104.AA20758@drums.reasoning.com> Received: by violin.reasoning.com.res_no_yp (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29626; Tue, 1 Feb 94 17:04:46 PST To: info@tlg.org Subject: Internet access Reply-To: zaven@reasoning.com Status: O A friend of mine would like Internet access, which I understand you provide. Please send hardcopy info, if any, to me-- Lawrence Markosian c/o Reasoning Systems 3260 Hillview Avenue Palo Alto, CA 94304 - Lawrence Z. Markosian From mark@vividata.com Tue Feb 1 19:14:58 1994 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id TAA04659; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 19:14:52 -0800 Received: from spool.uu.net (via LOCALHOST) by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwbll07797; Tue, 1 Feb 94 22:16:42 -0500 Received: from vividata.UUCP by uucp6.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL (queueing-rmail) id 221141.26615; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 22:11:41 EST Received: by vividata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00414; Tue, 1 Feb 94 18:45:10 PST Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 18:45:10 PST From: mark@vividata.com (Mark Liebman) Message-Id: <9402020245.AA00414@vividata.com> To: uunet!tlg.org!Info@uunet.UU.NET Subject: Re: The Little Garden -- Internet connectivity Status: O Do you need a POP in Berkeley? Maybe we should talk. What is the status of your organization?(corp, sole prop., partnership, npo...) From blm@netcom.com Tue Feb 1 20:20:46 1994 Received: from mail.netcom.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA04719; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 20:20:34 -0800 Received: from localhost by mail.netcom.com (8.6.4/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id UAA08103; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 20:23:11 -0800 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 20:23:11 -0800 From: blm@netcom.com (Barney Loves Me) Message-Id: <199402020423.UAA08103@mail.netcom.com> To: info@tlg.org Status: O send info From davel@silvaco.com Tue Feb 1 20:28:00 1994 Received: from silvaco.silvaco.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA04735; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 20:27:52 -0800 Received: from pluto.master by silvaco.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07972; Tue, 1 Feb 94 20:32:22 PST Received: by pluto.master (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15120; Tue, 1 Feb 94 20:29:49 PST Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 20:29:49 PST From: davel@silvaco.com (David W. Lauderback) Message-Id: <9402020429.AA15120@pluto.master> To: info@tlg.org Subject: Just info. Status: O From davel@silvaco.com Tue Feb 1 20:52:46 1994 Received: from silvaco.silvaco.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA04761; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 20:52:40 -0800 Received: from pluto.master by silvaco.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08824; Tue, 1 Feb 94 20:57:12 PST Received: by pluto.master (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15128; Tue, 1 Feb 94 20:54:38 PST Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 20:54:38 PST From: davel@silvaco.com (David W. Lauderback) Message-Id: <9402020454.AA15128@pluto.master> To: Info@tlg.org Subject: Re: The Little Garden -- Internet connectivity Status: O Thanks for the info. Unfortunately I need a Pleasanton POP. If you happen to get one in the future, I would be interested in your service. Thanks again, David W. Lauderback davel@silvaco.com From tomm@ingres.com Tue Feb 1 20:54:32 1994 Received: from ingres.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id UAA04768; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 20:54:30 -0800 From: tomm@ingres.com Received: from pony.ingres.com by ingres.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/INGRES/zool/06.06.93) id AA13046; Tue, 1 Feb 94 20:56:38 PST Received: from monster by pony.ingres.com (5.65c8+/INGRES/Router/pony/08.16.93) id AA09584; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 20:56:49 -0800 Received: by monsterngres.com.ingres.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/INGRES/AIX/monster/08.16.93) id AA32048; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 20:43:13 -0800 Message-Id: <9402020443.AA32048@monsterngres.com.ingres.com> Subject: My link? To: tomj@wps.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 20:43:12 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin@tlg.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 279 Status: O Hi Tom, I called the tlg number and also left you a message. When I dropped off the modem on thursday, you said the link would be together by tuesday. I was wondering if that has happened yet? When do you expect it to? I am anxious to get on the internet! thank you, tom From tomj@fido.wps.com Tue Feb 1 22:16:45 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id WAA04830; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 22:16:40 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA09848; Tue, 1 Feb 94 22:18:33 -0800 Received: from cygnus.com by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA09088; Tue, 1 Feb 94 16:18:50 -0800 Received: by cygnus.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23148; Tue, 1 Feb 94 16:18:48 PST Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 16:18:48 PST From: grossman@cygnus.com (Stu Grossman) Message-Id: <9402020018.AA23148@cygnus.com> To: tomj@wps.com Subject: networks file Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O Tom, I've integrated your changes. Here's the latest file. Please update your copy with my changes. Stu # # Sun customer networks # This file is never consulted when the yellow pages are running # loopback 127 sun-ether 192.9.200 sunether ethernet localnet sun-oldether 125 sunoldether asylum-net 192.48.232 cygnus-net 192.80.44 # # Little Garden network subnets # littlegarden 140.174 cygnus-net 140.174.1 Cygnus Mountain View campus ethernet toad-net 140.174.2 John Gilmore - Toad Hall ethernet xxx-net 140.174.3 *Free* mv-net2 140.174.4 2nd MV campus ethernet mv-toad-ppp 140.174.5 Cygnus MV to Toad Hall 56K link test-net 140.174.6 pozar1-net 140.174.7 Tim Pozar tj7 140.174.8 *Free* tj9 140.174.9 *Free* pa-mp-slip 140.174.10 cyg-net-II 140.174.11 Retired for now garden-net 140.174.12 little-garden.net, TLG admin ptharp-net 140.174.13 Phil Tharp ptharp-tis-slip 140.174.14 Phil Tharp's slip line toad-upstairs 140.174.16 John Gilmore -- Toad Hall upstairs ether lever-net 140.174.20 Edward Elhauge - Lever Industries pa-net 140.174.23 814 PA campus ethernet mv-pa-net 140.174.24 Cygnus MV to 814 PA 56k link cfcl-net 140.174.42 Rich Morin pozar3-net 140.174.66 Pozar's appletalk net joes-garage-net 140.174.69 Kenton Hoover imat-net 140.174.70 Richard Couture barn-net 140.174.71 Tim Wicinski wired-net 140.174.72 WIRED magazine tj73 140.174.73 tj74 140.174.74 tj75 140.174.75 tj76 140.174.76 wps-net 140.174.77 Tom Jennings queernet-net 140.174.78 Roger B. Klorese ah-net 140.174.79 Arthur Abraham oss-net 140.174.80 Eric Theise fogcity-net 140.174.81 Bill Essex idiom-net 140.174.82 David Muir Sharnoff wskcc-net 140.174.83 William S. Kaster comedia-net 140.174.84 Fen Labalme nos1-cygnus-net 140.174.85 (SLIP ports for NOS1.CYGNUS.COM) dragoman-net 140.174.86 Mike Park tsoft-net 140.174.87 Mike Durkin wsrcc-net 140.174.88 Wolfgang Rupprech traveler-net 140.174.89 Paul Goldstone seiden-net 140.174.90 Mark Seiden virtual-net 140.174.91 M. Strata Rose firstfloor-net 140.174.92 David Cardinal rosenthal-net 140.174.93 David Rosenthal skidpad-net 140.174.94 Eric Murray cyborganic-net 140.174.95 Jonathan Steuer dogwood-net 140.174.96 David Cornejo bi-net 140.174.97 Dan Farmer tiw-net 140.174.98 Lonhyn T. Jasinskyj tw-net 140.174.99 tom wadlow tj100 140.174.100 gumby-net 140.174.101 D. V. Henkel-Wallace dsnet-net 140.174.102 Micro Medic nexsys-net 140.174.103 Peter Killcommons everest-net 140.174.104 Robert Neilson nvidia-net 140.174.105 NVidia (David Rosenthal) pss-net 140.174.106 Tom Lipkis tj107 140.174.107 *** Kendell Willits tj108 140.174.108 *** Bo Orloff sp-net 140.174.109 Andrew Anker lavender-net 140.174.110 Robert Cohen iitel-net 140.174.111 Richard Couture talek-net 140.174.112 Andrew Moore asylum-net 140.174.113 Dave Black yak-net 140.174.114 Henry Strickland tj115 140.174.115 *** Tom Markson tj116 140.174.116 *** Randy Mills (Flesh) tj117 140.174.117 *** Tony Siress tj118 140.174.118 *** Paul Campbell tj119 140.174.119 *** Jeff Aldritch tj120 140.174.120 *** Tin Le tj121 140.174.121 *Free* sf-eth-net 140.174.122 444 Market SF ethernet sf-mv-net 140.174.123 Cygnus MV <=> 444 Market SF T1 link sf-toad-net 140.174.124 444 Market SF <=> Toad Hall 56k link sf-eth2-net 140.174.125 444 Market SF 2nd ethernet tj126 140.174.126 *Free* tj127 140.174.127 *Free* tj128 140.174.128 *Free* tj129 140.174.129 *Free* tj130 140.174.130 *Free* tj131 140.174.131 *Free* tj132 140.174.132 *Free* tj133 140.174.133 *Free* tj134 140.174.134 *Free* tj135 140.174.135 *Free* tj136 140.174.136 *Free* tj137 140.174.137 *Free* tj138 140.174.138 *Free* tj139 140.174.139 *Free* tj140 140.174.140 *Free* tj141 140.174.141 *Free* tj142 140.174.142 *Free* tj143 140.174.143 *Free* tj144 140.174.144 *Free* tj145 140.174.145 *Free* tj146 140.174.146 *Free* tj147 140.174.147 *Free* tj148 140.174.148 *Free* tj149 140.174.149 *Free* tj150 140.174.150 Scruz-net temporary PPP link tj151 140.174.151 Scruz-net temporary tj152 140.174.152 Scruz-net temporary tj153 140.174.153 *Free* tj154 140.174.154 *Free* tj155 140.174.155 *Free* tj156 140.174.156 *Free* tj157 140.174.157 *Free* tj158 140.174.158 *Free* tj159 140.174.159 *Free* tj160 140.174.160 *Free* tj161 140.174.161 *Free* tj162 140.174.162 *Free* tj163 140.174.163 *Free* tj164 140.174.164 *Free* tj165 140.174.165 *Free* tj166 140.174.166 *Free* tj167 140.174.167 *Free* tj168 140.174.168 *Free* tj169 140.174.169 *Free* tj170 140.174.170 *Free* tj171 140.174.171 *Free* tj172 140.174.172 *Free* tj173 140.174.173 *Free* tj174 140.174.174 *Free* tj175 140.174.175 *Free* tj176 140.174.176 *Free* tj177 140.174.177 *Free* tj178 140.174.178 *Free* tj179 140.174.179 *Free* tj180 140.174.180 *Free* tj181 140.174.181 *Free* tj182 140.174.182 *Free* tj183 140.174.183 *Free* tj184 140.174.184 *Free* tj185 140.174.185 *Free* tj186 140.174.186 *Free* tj187 140.174.187 *Free* tj188 140.174.188 *Free* tj189 140.174.189 *Free* tj190 140.174.190 *Free* tj191 140.174.191 *Free* tj192 140.174.192 *Free* tj193 140.174.193 *Free* tj194 140.174.194 *Free* tj195 140.174.195 *Free* tj196 140.174.196 *Free* tj197 140.174.197 *Free* tj198 140.174.198 *Free* tj199 140.174.199 *Free* tj200 140.174.200 *Free* tj201 140.174.201 *Free* tj202 140.174.202 *Free* tj203 140.174.203 *Free* tj204 140.174.204 *Free* tj205 140.174.205 *Free* tj206 140.174.206 *Free* tj207 140.174.207 *Free* tj208 140.174.208 *Free* tj209 140.174.209 *Free* tj210 140.174.210 *Free* tj211 140.174.211 *Free* tj212 140.174.212 *Free* tj213 140.174.213 *Free* tj214 140.174.214 *Free* tj215 140.174.215 *Free* tj216 140.174.216 *Free* tj217 140.174.217 *Free* tj218 140.174.218 *Free* tj219 140.174.219 *Free* tj220 140.174.220 *Free* tj221 140.174.221 *Free* tj222 140.174.222 *Free* tj223 140.174.223 *Free* tj224 140.174.224 *Free* tj225 140.174.225 *Free* tj226 140.174.226 *Free* tj227 140.174.227 *Free* tj228 140.174.228 *Free* tj229 140.174.229 *Free* tj230 140.174.230 *Free* tj231 140.174.231 *Free* tj232 140.174.232 *Free* tj233 140.174.233 *Free* tj234 140.174.234 *Free* tj235 140.174.235 *Free* tj236 140.174.236 *Free* tj237 140.174.237 *Free* tj238 140.174.238 *Free* tj239 140.174.239 *Free* tj240 140.174.240 *Free* tj241 140.174.241 *Free* tj242 140.174.242 *Free* tj243 140.174.243 *Free* tj244 140.174.244 *Free* tj245 140.174.245 *Free* tj246 140.174.246 *Free* tj247 140.174.247 *Free* tj248 140.174.248 *Free* tj249 140.174.249 *Free* tj250 140.174.250 *Free* tj251 140.174.251 *Free* tj252 140.174.252 *Free* tj253 140.174.253 *Free* tj254 140.174.254 *Free* tj255 140.174.255 Do not use # # Internet networks # arpanet 10 arpa ucb-ether 46 ucbether From tomj@fido.wps.com Tue Feb 1 22:22:21 1994 Received: from fido.wps.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id WAA04836; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 22:22:18 -0800 Received: by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA09913; Tue, 1 Feb 94 22:24:12 -0800 Received: from remarque.Berkeley.EDU by fido.wps.com (5.67/wps.com-hackery) id AA09024; Tue, 1 Feb 94 15:47:51 -0800 Received: from localhost by remarque.berkeley.edu (8.6.4/1.31) id PAA04935; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:47:43 -0800 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:47:43 -0800 From: mrhoda@remarque.berkeley.edu (Merlin Rhoda) Message-Id: <199402012347.PAA04935@remarque.berkeley.edu> Apparently-To: tomj@wps.com Sender: tomj@fido.wps.com Status: O Hi Tom, I spoke with you about a month and a half ago concerning a connection to TLG for my home and business. Since that time I have purchased the neccessary hardware, ordered the telephone lines (one at our business, two at my residence, and one at your Market St. office). The telephone number at Market St. is 415-433-6968, and should be installed on Wednesday, the 2nd (2mrw). Please advise me as to where I should deliver my modem, and where I can get the required paperwork. Thank you, Merlin Rhoda 510-522-3800 x126 510-238-9031 home 510-425-8335 pager From tomj Tue Feb 1 22:26:20 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id WAA04881; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 22:26:20 -0800 Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id RAA04513; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 17:22:32 -0800 From: jeff.aldrich@access-info.com Received: from access-info.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.4/SMI-4.1) id RAA12996; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 17:13:17 -0800 Received: by access-info.com id A3384wk Tue, 01 Feb 94 16:45:14 Message-Id: <9402011645.A3384wk@access-info.com> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 94 16:45:14 Subject: Re: installation To: tomj@fnord.tlg.org Organization: [ Access InfoSystems -- voice: (707) 422-1034 ] Sender: tomj Status: O > > Our 56k install date is Feb. 15 -- when can you folks > travel to > > Fairfield and set us up?? > > > Umm, we can't. It's not what TLG does; we provide raw IP, and while > we'll glagly help you out, it doesn't include housecalls. You'll > need to > arrange for standard consulting services if you dfon't have it > in-house. > And we're utterly swamped, though likely we can find you referals. Humm.... Tim mentioned 400.00 installation at our site back in December -- when we were trying to nail down the costs...A referal would be a big help given that we've budgeted 400.00 for a site install -- this is new stuff for our inhouse unix guy. thanks, jeff From tomj Tue Feb 1 23:05:46 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id XAA04968; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 23:05:31 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402020705.XAA04968@tlg.org> Subject: Re: installation To: jeff.aldrich@access-info.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 23:05:30 -0800 (PST) Cc: admin In-Reply-To: <9402011645.A3384wk@access-info.com> from "jeff.aldrich@access-info.com" at Feb 1, 94 04:45:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3431 Status: OR > Humm.... Tim mentioned 400.00 installation at our site back in > December -- when we were trying to nail down the costs...A referal would be a > big help given that we've budgeted 400.00 for a site install -- this is new > stuff for our inhouse unix guy. I think there's been a misunderstanding; I wish you had contacted us before having the line installed. I'll elaborate on the information I wouldhave provided you before you initiated the connection. [A brief quote from our brochure] 56K SERVICE PRICES: One-time installation fee (non-refundable) . . . . . . $400. Monthly connection fee . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $325. Each member must provide their own CSU/DSU pair, and a 56K or T1 capable connection to their system (such as a router). Each member must also provide a standalone router at the TLG end or pay for a fraction of a multi-port router. The basic responsibilities are as follows: Physically speaking, TLG's responsibility ends at the leased-line connection at the *TLG site*. The line itself is maintained by the telephone company. The members responsibility begins at their end of the leased-line. We charge the member for the cost of a router-port at the TLG end of the connection. The member has the option of supplying a router capable of interfacing between our equipment and yuor leased line. If you do this we waive the router-port cost (since you've provided it in this case). TLG establishes the data connection and is responsible for maintaining it, to the extent our responsibility as defined above. In other words, we can't control what happens in the telephone company's or the member's equipment. These are the extreme limits. While the member is responsible for all of the installation and operation, we'll gladly give help to you, as can be provided via email and telephone, in "reasonable" amounts (while I can't give you numbers, it has never yet been a problem). If a problem occurs, we work together in good faith with the member and the telephone company to resolve problems as fast as possible. The costs are as follows: The $400 labor fee covers TLG staff effort to establish the connection at the TLG end of things, including debug time, customer help, etc. The paragraph: [...] Each member must also provide a standalone router at the TLG end or pay for a fraction of a multi-port router. We charge $750.00 for a portion of a 56K/T1-capable router. This pays for 1/Nth of a router, necessary V.35 cables, shipping, sales tax, etc. So -- one-time fees to TLG are: One-time installation fee (non-refundable) . . . . . . $400. Router-port cost . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $750. One-time fees to TLG to establish a connection . . . . $1150. In addition, the member must supply a pair of DSUs, and any necessary equipment required at the members site; one of the DSUs is given to TLG for installation at the TLG end of the connection. This equipment remains the property of the member. The recurring charge is $325/mo as stated. Telephone line one-time and recurring charges are not TLG's responsibility. You should also read the file called "START-HERE" available from ftp.tlg.org. I will gladly email it to you if necessary. You should also read all of the 'how-to' files there as well. -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org From tomj Tue Feb 1 23:06:10 1994 Received: from localhost by fnord.tlg.org (8.3/wps.com-hackery) id XAA04978; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 23:06:09 -0800 From: tomj (Tom Jennings) Message-Id: <199402020706.XAA04978@tlg.org> Subject: yeeeeowww!! To: admin Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 23:06:08 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 194 Status: OR Tim, that Aldritch guy, boy did he fuck up. I'm gonna turn that thing I sent him into a doc for us to reuse.... -- The Little Garden, an S.F. Bay Area Internetwork -- email to info@tlg.org