From notes@igc.apc.org Tue Jun 21 03:35:54 1994
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From: miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU
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Date: 20 Jun 94 10:18 PDT
Subject: WE OWN IT! - NOPE. (fwd)
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From: Michael Ballard <miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU>

Anyone wishing to respond to this post can send their response to 
1-union@lever.com
Mike Ballard





Steve Szalai writes:
>From listserv@lever.lever.com Sat Jun 18 05:40:24 1994
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>Date: 18 Jun 94 04:45:23 EDT
>From: Steve Szalai <72607.2404@CompuServe.COM>
>To: 1-Union <1-union@lever.com>
>Subject: WE OWN IT! - NOPE.
>Message-ID: <940618084523_72607.2404_DHW33-5@CompuServe.COM>
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>
>M.Ballard quotes:
>
>> Rep. Dellums Supports Federal Seizure of Entire Pacific Lumber Co...
>>                    PACIFIC LUMBER-- WE OWN IT!
>>                 A Week Of Protest and Repossession
>
>Seems a waste of time to me.
>The US worker doesn't own PACIFIC LUMBER, the capitalist
>class does, one way or another.
>
>I guess I just don't see the use of such protests.
>
>I have serious doubts that Earth First! is
>going to make the reality clear at the demos.
>They are more likely to actually believe that
>working people, through the government,
>actually have real ownership in some sense.
>And then strive to increase (or continue) state
>ownership.
>
>- For Socialism
>- Steve Szalai
>
>
>


From deke Tue Jun 21 16:29:13 1994
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From: deke (Deke Motif Nihilson)
Message-Id: <199406211629.JAA08385@wps.com>
Subject: Re: WE OWN IT! - NOPE. (fwd)
To: iww.news@conf.igc.apc.org
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 09:29:04 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 1-UNION@lever.com
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> >M.Ballard quotes:
> >
> >> Rep. Dellums Supports Federal Seizure of Entire Pacific Lumber Co...
> >>                    PACIFIC LUMBER-- WE OWN IT!
> >>                 A Week Of Protest and Repossession
> >
> >Seems a waste of time to me.
> >The US worker doesn't own PACIFIC LUMBER, the capitalist
> >class does, one way or another.
> >
> >I guess I just don't see the use of such protests.

Well, can you see the use of 44,000 acres of virgin redwood forest, or 
will you not be content until the workers themselves can democratically 
decide to clearcut what little remains of these ancient beings, yet 
another Sacrifice to another Angry Economy (though maybe such sacrifices 
are more acceptable when offered unto a Socialist Economy???)

Earth First! does not exist do the long term, Big Vision work of waging 
Class War against ALL bosses, be they capitalist or communist. They exist 
to do the short-term, take-a-look-around-you work of trying to stop the 
outright GENOCIDE in which a whole species a day (or more) are wiped off 
the face of the planet, for the benefit of human arrogance. 

If they don't succeed, there will be nothing left of this planet to 
ultimately defend, let alone secure, with a revolution. If their cause 
"loses", humanity will die and all bets for revolution are off. And if 
they don't get a lot of help quickly, they will lose. Labor has a role to 
play. (Maybe the workers could learn a thing or two about how their work 
impacts something besides The Fucken Economy). So do lots of others...

Now, EF! ain't the savior. But the attitude above-quoted, about the lack 
of the purity of their analytical critique of the capitalist system, is 
just the sort of jaded, tired attitude that has left the Left so weak, 
divided and disempowered that instead of being a strong force to 
counterbalance the capitalists (private or state variety), we instead 
deign to judge the ideological purity of those who would be comrades 
while the Ruling Class burns the world down.

This has something to do with why I don't subscribe, ahem, to the 
1-UNION list. Someone forwarded me the above, and it's kinda sad, but 
fortunately my generation (that would be the "whatever" one) in truth a) 
cares more than They'd have us believe, b) don't settle for any of the 
above-illustrated, jade-enconsed BULLSHIT, and c) dig our elders and are 
quite able to learn from, as well as teach, them.

So there.  *:)

In Solidarity, for a world without Clearcuts,
--Deke Nihilson, x341697
S.F. GMB, IWW
WSA/IWA
Love and Rage Revolutionary Anarchist Federation
Flaming Faggot
Friend of (what's left of) the Wilderness


From notes@igc.apc.org Wed Jun 22 03:29:34 1994
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From: miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU
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Date: 21 Jun 94 15:01 PDT
Subject: Re: WE OWN IT! - NOPE. (fwd)
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From: Michael Ballard <miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU>

Brian=Callahan%MT%DFCI@netban2-gw.dfci.harvard.edu writes:

From listserv@lever.lever.com Tue Jun 21 13:20:30 1994
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From: Brian=Callahan%MT%DFCI@netban2-gw.dfci.harvard.edu
Subject: re: Re: WE OWN IT! - NOPE. (fwd)
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Certainly, we shouldn't let the long-term goals (revolution) obscure the need
for worthy shorter-term goals.  Let's not get to the point where we can't see 
the trees because the forest is in the way.  I couldn't resist.



From notes@igc.apc.org Wed Jun 22 03:29:51 1994
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From: deke@fido.wps.com
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Date: 21 Jun 94 09:29 PDT
Subject: Re: WE OWN IT! - NOPE. (fwd)
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From: deke@fido.wps.com (Deke Motif Nihilson)

> >M.Ballard quotes:
> >
> >> Rep. Dellums Supports Federal Seizure of Entire Pacific Lumber Co...
> >>                    PACIFIC LUMBER-- WE OWN IT!
> >>                 A Week Of Protest and Repossession
> >
> >Seems a waste of time to me.
> >The US worker doesn't own PACIFIC LUMBER, the capitalist
> >class does, one way or another.
> >
> >I guess I just don't see the use of such protests.

Well, can you see the use of 44,000 acres of virgin redwood forest, or 
will you not be content until the workers themselves can democratically 
decide to clearcut what little remains of these ancient beings, yet 
another Sacrifice to another Angry Economy (though maybe such sacrifices 
are more acceptable when offered unto a Socialist Economy???)

Earth First! does not exist do the long term, Big Vision work of waging 
Class War against ALL bosses, be they capitalist or communist. They exist 
to do the short-term, take-a-look-around-you work of trying to stop the 
outright GENOCIDE in which a whole species a day (or more) are wiped off 
the face of the planet, for the benefit of human arrogance. 

If they don't succeed, there will be nothing left of this planet to 
ultimately defend, let alone secure, with a revolution. If their cause 
"loses", humanity will die and all bets for revolution are off. And if 
they don't get a lot of help quickly, they will lose. Labor has a role to 
play. (Maybe the workers could learn a thing or two about how their work 
impacts something besides The Fucken Economy). So do lots of others...

Now, EF! ain't the savior. But the attitude above-quoted, about the lack 
of the purity of their analytical critique of the capitalist system, is 
just the sort of jaded, tired attitude that has left the Left so weak, 
divided and disempowered that instead of being a strong force to 
counterbalance the capitalists (private or state variety), we instead 
deign to judge the ideological purity of those who would be comrades 
while the Ruling Class burns the world down.

This has something to do with why I don't subscribe, ahem, to the 
1-UNION list. Someone forwarded me the above, and it's kinda sad, but 
fortunately my generation (that would be the "whatever" one) in truth a) 
cares more than They'd have us believe, b) don't settle for any of the 
above-illustrated, jade-enconsed BULLSHIT, and c) dig our elders and are 
quite able to learn from, as well as teach, them.

So there.  *:)

In Solidarity, for a world without Clearcuts,
--Deke Nihilson, x341697
S.F. GMB, IWW
WSA/IWA
Love and Rage Revolutionary Anarchist Federation
Flaming Faggot
Friend of (what's left of) the Wilderness


From miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU Thu Jun 23 17:28:50 1994
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From: Michael Ballard <miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Message-Id: <199406231728.KAA02006@elaine37.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Earth First! (fwd)
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Steve Szalai writes:
From listserv@lever.lever.com Thu Jun 23 04:31:58 1994
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Date: 23 Jun 94 05:14:44 EDT
From: Steve Szalai <72607.2404@CompuServe.COM>
To: 1-Union <1-union@lever.com>
Subject: Earth First!
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Deke Nihilson:

> Earth First! does not exist do the long term, Big Vision work of waging 
> Class War against ALL bosses, be they capitalist or communist. They exist 
> to do the short-term, take-a-look-around-you work of trying to stop the 
> outright GENOCIDE in which a whole species a day (or more) are wiped off 
> the face of the planet, for the benefit of human arrogance. 

There have been many groups, for hundreds of years that took the same
approach. That approach has resulted in the exact problems that
the approach is still trying to solve.

> Well, can you see the use of 44,000 acres of virgin redwood forest, or 
> will you not be content until the workers themselves can democratically 
> decide to clearcut what little remains of these ancient beings, yet 
> another Sacrifice to another Angry Economy (though maybe such sacrifices 
> are more acceptable when offered unto a Socialist Economy???)

This has nothing to do with anything I ever said.

> If they don't succeed, there will be nothing left of this planet to 
> ultimately defend, let alone secure, with a revolution. If their cause 
> "loses", humanity will die and all bets for revolution are off. And if 
> they don't get a lot of help quickly, they will lose. Labor has a role to 
> play. (Maybe the workers could learn a thing or two about how their work 
> impacts something besides The Fucken Economy). So do lots of others...

I see little chance of Earth First! succeeding, because it
is fighting effects, not causes. That is why I am a socialist.

I don't think the planet, and my particular species, has 
enough time to wait for the Earth First! approach to 
continue to fail for another couple of hundred years.

I'll continue to fight causes, and if the majority of the working
class continues to ignore the causes, of the effects they
worry about, then "there will be nothing left of this planet".

I have never claimed to be a historian, but Nihilson seems
to feel that history should be ignored.

It also seems that Nihilson has no idea of what communism
means. I have no comprehension of Nihilson's claim of
the possibility of communist bosses.

- For Socialism
- Steve Szalai




From miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU Thu Jun 23 17:29:35 1994
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From: Michael Ballard <miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU>
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Subject: worthy goal (fwd)
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Steve Szalai writes:

From deke Thu Jun 23 17:42:05 1994
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From: deke (Deke Motif Nihilson)
Message-Id: <199406231741.KAA14045@wps.com>
Subject: Re: Earth First! (fwd)
To: miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michael Ballard)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 10:41:45 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <199406231728.KAA02006@elaine37.Stanford.EDU> from "Michael Ballard" at Jun 23, 94 10:28:30 am
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Perhaps the two approaches need not be mutually exclusive, or even 
*competitive*... perhaps there's room for both, and more, in which we 
can all work co-operatively...

I've never seen a socialist "hug a tree", so to speak. I've seen 
pictures of forests clearcut, though, under various versions of "the 
dictatorship of the proletariat"...

You say History, I say Reality, and both systems just keep on killing, like 
they've always done.

Revolutionaries who fail to take reality into account are doomed to their 
history clubs. No, really!

In Solidarity with all Resistance to the Slaughter,
--Deke Nihilson, x341697
S.F. IWW
and oh, so much more...


From miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU Mon Jun 27 23:36:48 1994
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From: Michael Ballard <miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Message-Id: <199406272336.QAA00609@elaine33.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Earth First! (fwd)
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Steve Szalai writes:
From listserv@lever.lever.com Sat Jun 25 04:18:51 1994
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Date: 25 Jun 94 05:48:35 EDT
From: Steve Szalai <72607.2404@CompuServe.COM>
To: 1-Union <1-union@lever.com>
Subject: Earth First!
Message-ID: <940625094835_72607.2404_DHW30-5@CompuServe.COM>
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Deke Nihilson:

> I've never seen a socialist "hug a tree", so to speak. I've seen 
> pictures of forests clearcut, though, under various versions of "the 
> dictatorship of the proletariat"...

I guess when you refuse to subscribe to the list to find out what
it is all about, this ignorance of the nature of the list and its
contributors is to be expected.

- For Socialism
- Steve Szalai




From miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU Mon Jun 27 23:37:04 1994
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From: Michael Ballard <miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Message-Id: <199406272336.QAA00615@elaine33.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Earth First! (fwd)
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Steve Szalai writes:
From listserv@lever.lever.com Sat Jun 25 04:08:18 1994
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Date: 25 Jun 94 05:48:34 EDT
From: Steve Szalai <72607.2404@CompuServe.COM>
To: 1-Union <1-union@lever.com>
Subject: Earth First!
Message-ID: <940625094833_72607.2404_DHW30-4@CompuServe.COM>
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Me, and ph18@crux2.cit.cornell.edu

> >I don't think the planet, and my particular species, has 
> >enough time to wait for the Earth First! approach to 
> >continue to fail for another couple of hundred years.
> 
>        Has it failed?

Yes. the destruction of the environment, including
humanity continues apace.

Also, except for a small minority, I have never seen much
sympathy for destruction either done by the right, or left.

- For Socialism
- Steve Szalai




From deke Mon Jun 27 23:56:33 1994
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From: deke (Deke Motif Nihilson)
Message-Id: <199406272351.QAA04497@wps.com>
Subject: Re: Earth First! (fwd)
To: miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michael Ballard)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 16:51:33 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: deke (Deke Motif Nihilson)
In-Reply-To: <199406272336.QAA00609@elaine33.Stanford.EDU> from "Michael Ballard" at Jun 27, 94 04:36:11 pm
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> Deke Nihilson:
> 
> > I've never seen a socialist "hug a tree", so to speak. I've seen 
> > pictures of forests clearcut, though, under various versions of "the 
> > dictatorship of the proletariat"...
> 
> I guess when you refuse to subscribe to the list to find out what
> it is all about, this ignorance of the nature of the list and its
> contributors is to be expected.
> 
> - For Socialism
> - Steve Szalai

Whatever else can be said for the 1-union list, you don't hug any trees 
on it. I don't do that (online) either. I *do* do other work for the forests 
and inhabitants thereof, though...

Though I am loath to defend the revolutionary potentials of ignorance for 
its own sake, I think I've seen enough of the particulars of what goes on 
on 1-union to know that I've got better things to do with my 
already-considerably-stretched attention than become familiar with the 
ongoing particulars of a personally-pursued (and taken) debate over 
personalities long dead and events that, though in some way relevant, are 
long-passed. I hold no grudge against those inclined to the theoretical 
side of making revolution (as, I hope, FW Ballard can attest), but until 
the 1-union list becomes relevant to DIRECT-ACTION ORGANIZING in the 
1990's, I will be content to remain in my continued ignorance of its 
particulars, even if people like you, Steve, choose to use it to continue 
to sneer from afar at people trying to *do* something, because they don't 
think *just like you do*.

I say this without venom, comrades; I wish 1-union to be everything you 
want to make of it. I've simply got *different* things to do. It is my 
firm opinion, though I'm nowhere near original in its expression, that we 
SHOULDN'T WASTE TIME MOURNING OVER THE PAST, BUT ORGANIZE! (Now *who* 
said something like that... Also, was s/he looking for a fight? ANYway...)

I remain, as ever,
In Queer Solidarity
--Deke Nihilson, x341697
S.F. IWW, and oh so much more...


-- 

